papa61
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Posts posted by papa61
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11 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:
WOW! This thread has gone around the world and back. I can't keep up anymore.
Literally. Geography, History, world politics, and even a couple of personal attacks. Luckily nothing heated LOL
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12 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:
If a mother breaks into your house and you shoot
Is that supposed to be could, or should?
if a mother breaks in, she will be arrested. If an armed mother breaks in she will most likely be shot. Who the criminal is makes no difference. A human life is a human life. there are good and bad mothers, fathers, children, no matter what race or belief. No, I do not wish to shoot anyone, ever.
I do however hold a hard line, if you would steal from me you would take food from my children (who are all grown and feed themselves, just reference) if you would take food from my children you have no respect for life.
I believe in fighting for what belongs to you. How hard did the Palestinians fight the Egyptians who treated them no better than the Israelis?-
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28 minutes ago, Links2k said:
Using this logic, people on the southern border should stop complaining about the migrants seeking to become their neighbors?
Look at a map of 1947 to see how much land the Jews populated and how much land they possess today, then make an informed decision on who should be forced to leave. Israel has stolen Palestinian land with the blessings and financing of the United States.
I cannot see what you are quoting, but if you want to leave your house open to whomever without vetting them,,,be my guest. as far as casualties from razor buoys, if you break the law you pay a price, just like if they tried to break into your house. Whether they need to be revised or not we have laws regarding immigration, they should be enforced. If you are feeling guilty about European expansion into America, you can return your land to me. I have enough native blood to claim it.
As I said before, Israel exists, countries expand, that is the way it works and the PLO and Hamas have constantly attacked Israel. Part of the expansion has been to halt incursions into Israel by making buffer zones.
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2 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:
I saw an article yesterday saying that the Israeli office that issues gun permits will be going into overdrive. The goal is to get as many Israelis armed as quickly as possible.
closing the barn door after the cow got out? another lesson for us to support our rights.
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3 minutes ago, OMCHamlin said:
The last time I was there was in Haifa and area, maybe 6-7 months before the Cole attack. I recall that roughly because the Cole impacted us by canceling a forward repair visit with another Amphibious Readiness Group in Haifa again, and actually getting us on “high as heck” readiness status to go over there and serve as the repair asset in that area (we were the Med deployed repair ship, USS Emory S Land). We were busy recalling personnel and loading big plates of steel for repairs.
ANYHOW, before I departed on a sea story, I must say I didn’t see a lot of strapped civilians, but their armed and uniformed reservists were mixed in amongst the general population pretty liberally. They had armored assets on the waterways and in certain locals.
@gun sane linked an article in his thread https://www.timesofisrael.com/comparing-america-to-israel-on-gun-laws-is-dishonest-and-revealing/ explaining it. I think you would see a higher level of concealed carry there than here 10-15 years ago. I knew they were required to have military training, part of their version of homeland security a generation ago.
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1 minute ago, gregintenn said:
All I know is that this series of events has put a serious damper on my Columbus Day celebrations.
How ironic considering the comparison of U.S. and Israeli expansion
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Just now, papa61 said:
Interesting article. The comparison of government trust is very telling. Israelis trust their leaders while the U.S. founded a federal government under protest. only going forward after the bill of rights limiting federal powers was added.
I have to disagree with the Texas professor asserting that personal arms are irrelevant against modern government armies. This idea, parroted often by our president, has been proven false in so many conflicts in so many countries it should be laughable to everyone.
Strategically placed persons looking for people who would be a threat is now outlawed and labeled profiling in this country.
BTW, how did that, "the government will protect you" work out for them?
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Interesting article. The comparison of government trust is very telling. Israelis trust their leaders while the U.S. founded a federal government under protest. only going forward after the bill of rights limiting federal powers was added.
I have to disagree with the Texas professor asserting that personal arms are irrelevant against modern government armies. This idea, parroted often by our president, has been proven false in so many conflicts in so many countries it should be laughable to everyone.
Strategically placed persons looking for people who would be a threat is now outlawed and labeled profiling in this country.
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15 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:
True, but the Jews living there weren’t enforcing an apartheid ethno-state at the time. That tends to change the dynamic a bit.
It is a broad brush because the subject is broad. I’m not attempting to single out Israel as being especially evil or anything, simply speaking of practicalities. You just can’t set up an ethno-state in the middle of a large non-ingroup population without keeping them fully under the thumb. Look at the history of European colonization and the end of that era for example after example of how it goes. I may not support the concept of Zionism, but I don’t blame the Zionists for understanding the assignment.
To bring it closer to home, look at the history of this nation as it relates to the native Americans. Native tribes had to be thoroughly subjugated to allow for the creation of what became the United States. Folks get squeamish talking about it these days, but it is empirically the truth.
*When I refer to Zionism and Zionists, that’s not an antisemitic shorthand for “the Jews”. I’m speaking of it in the definitional terms of it as a nationalist movement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
Equating criticisms of Zionism or Israel with antisemitism or hatred of Jewish people as a whole is a reductive position that I think harms the ability to substantively discuss the issues involved.*
Growth was natural, expansion was self preservation. The Jewish nation propagated and needed more land, they also had to create buffers against radical extremists bent on driving them out.
when Ben gave the sodbusters 40 acres to farm, he didn't think about them getting bigger. when they started fencing off his range and killing his cattle he had them all hung and took his 40 acres back. Israel has gotten too big to hang and they have U.S. backing up their fences.
While it may have been bad planning to relocate the Jews back to the middle east, most of us are not old enough to remember when there was no Israel. In my opinion, it is the Palestinians who refuse to live beside the Jews. All religion aside, Israel exists, the U.S. exists, history is written by the victors and revised by those who oppose them.-
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39 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:
Ok, if y'all are finished acting like 3rd graders and stop throwing #### at each other, can we get back to the topic at hand and discuss it like rational adults?
Greg makes a valid point. I don't remember when or how the U.S. became Globocop, but almost every time it happens it turns into a #### show.
OTOH: Israel is our ally. They need, at the very least, our moral support. Arguing if the nation should even exist is a moot point. They're there and they intend to stay. I fully support Israel and I do believe that they can deal with this without any help from us. If needed, I can see the U.S. providing medicine, food, etc to help the population. We might even get away with providing air support. But I greatly fear that if U.S. boots touch the ground, WW III will start.
What we're dealing with here is a religious war. When religion is involved. no amount of facts, figures or common sense will make a bit of difference. Both sides believe God is on their side. Our best option is to just stand back and let 'em slug it out.
Holy cow! While I was writing this at least a half dozen more posts have been made. Hot topic for sure.
#1 - probably not
2 - you are totally correct
3 - any support would be providing aid and comfort to the enemy in Palistinian eyes
4 - yes, if we align with anyone it should be for our self interest as I said before. "humanitarian" aid is for charitible orginizations.
5 - same here.We need a presence and an ally in the middle east. The U.S. has gotten friendly with the Saudi government in recent times which strained U.S. Israeli relations. If we do not support Israel now it could be bad for us.
Terrorists MUST be dealt with, although England probably considered the colonists as terrorists. -
I don't know when Israel disarmed the population, I missed that. Used to be everyone had to engage in training and were encouraged to be armed. I believe it is one's responsibility to maintain their own personal security and contribute to the security of a free state. How many countries have invaded Afghanastan? How many have been successful?
If 20% of all people in the US were armed at all times, how would 9/11 have turned out? No one would remember the date because it would not have happened. If 20% of the attendees of the festival where all of those people were taken hostage were armed it would have turned out much differently. If the representative in D.C. were armed he would not have been so easily carjacked."But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up." MATT 24:43 - meaning, be prepared at all times.
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2 minutes ago, RED333 said:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Then there's that...
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21 minutes ago, gregintenn said:
Like any other unrest in the world, this has the US hog’s fingerprints all over it.
My only point in what I posted earlier is that the entire world would be a better place if the US stayed home and attended to its own problems. Our government is not the world’s police. The world does not want them to be the world’s police. I can’t recall anything the US gov hasn’t made worse by attempting to be the world’s police.They should be OUR police. A job they’ve failed miserably at lately.
I disagree with only the federal government policing us. The only function our federal government should attend to is maintaining the security of OUR nation. We do not need them policing us, we have state and local government for that. Maintaining our security sometimes involves fighting foreign wars, I try to elect leaders I trust to make that decision in our best interest.
You are correct on the rest, including our governments spectacular failure lately.-
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3 minutes ago, TGO David said:
I really feel that trying to moderate political threads on TGO is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. It can't be done.
I also feel that forbidding discussion of political things is a similar proposition. Politics are so intertwined with firearms and firearms ownership that people drawn to guns and gun forums will also always be drawn to talking about political topics. Even if the topics seemingly have nothing to do with guns.
At a fundamental level, all political topics involve force or the threat of force once you start making laws. Instituting a law requires the threat of repercussions if the law isn't obeyed. The government's answer to the question, "Or else - what?" always has been that they will use force to remove you from public or even the gene pool if you fail to comply.
We could try [again] to forbid anything political being discussed on TGO, but that also means people won't be allowed to talk about current events. This doesn't appeal to me.
Or I could just tell people to grow the #### up and be ready to receive it if you dish it out and see who's left standing.
I swear, though. The absolute intolerance of other opinions makes me thing some of y'all pee sitting down.
Air Force. Didn’t do much militarying, but I did sit around in comfortable digs thinking about stuff.
damn, I knew it Chuck! Recruiter used similar tactics to get me in the Air Force...told him I'd sign if I could fly jets, that put an end to it with my vision LMAO!
David, a recent study said that men would be better off if they sat to pee.
Otherwise, I'm an adult, maybe a bad tempered one but I can respect others as long as I receive the same and here if I do not I just ignore it.
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1 minute ago, gregintenn said:
I can tell you one thing I've learned about Chuck. His opinions are not always mainstream, and I don't always agree with them, but I can't recall one that wasn't well thought out and gave me pause to look at a subject in a totally new light.
I was thinking the same. Have to check his profile but he was probably a Marine. LOL
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there is an old adage comparing dedicated and committed using a pig and a chicken. I believe if we lend aid we are chicken, if it is in our interest to be involved in anything we should be committed, commitment involves sacrifice.
Y'all need to think about this, we need to be a community here, discuss and learn, be united in our interests.
If Ukraine is a needed ally, we should have sent forces in to quickly secure their sovereignty, if not we should stay the hell out. Same goes for Israel or any other nation. Look at history and see what happens when we stick our nose where it does not belong and what happens when we do not protect strategically important foreign nations. How many lives would have been saved had we entered WWII earlier? What if we had stayed out of Vietnam? Weigh these things carefully.
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5 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:
This is a hilariously bad twisting of the things I’ve actually said combined with a supremely sillier attempt to put some things in my mouth I didn’t even come close to saying.
It’s also hilarious to me how even the mildest criticism of Israel, or questioning if the US’s absolute support is actually in our best interest or not gets one labeled as an anti-Semite or worse.
It’s ok though. I’m used to this tactic as I’ve been dealing with it from arguing with leftists for years on the internet.
“Maybe we should deal with our logistics and energy infrastructure before we send tens of billions to Ukraine in a proxy war.”
”Why do you want Russia to win, you Putin stooge?”
“Maybe we should put our citizens first and secure our borders?”
”Why do you hate Mexicans, you racist?”
”I’m not sure our domestic social safety net is sustainable.”“Why do you want old and poor people to starve you heartless SOB?”
It’s just plain funny to me.
this popped up while I was typing. Yep, hard to strike a balance between isolationisim and wide open border diplomacy. we should all be open to public discourse without demeaning opinions other than our own. THIS war is going to get nasty, no doubt. Are we contractually commited to help? are we morally obligated? is it in our best interest as a nation? these things are what we should discuss, not who's fault or what policy caused it.
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Only true friends can discuss politics and religion. Any others will fall into anger. I have my beliefs and you have yours, as long as we are civil, we can discuss anything. Respect for your fellow man should be at the top of your list of things to do every day. Yes, political policies from several nations contributed to this mess. No I don't relish or encourage war. That said, I agree with the Biblical way to wage war, kill them all and let God sort them out. THTA is why we need great leadership in great countries, because war is the very last option to protect yourself and your nation.
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2 hours ago, kwe45919 said:
I use to have one like this...shoulda never got rid of it. Really wish you were closer.......
Don't guess this is shippable without FFL involvement?
It might be legal but I'd prefer not to.
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11 hours ago, gun sane said:
Yes,,,yes I would. Turn him loose out back and let him be a "barn cat".
but that is IF we needed a barn cat, which we do not
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$130 firm
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needs a new home
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The US pushed Israel into negotiating peace with Yassir Arafat, a known terrorist. This is what happens when you negotiate with terrorists. We have, or at least had, a policy of non-negotiation but what's good for me is not good for you. Sound familiar? I am not at all surprised, world society will continue to degrade until God says enough.
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If I weren't recovering from moving expenses this would already be in my possession, GLWS.
Tactical Gun Collection
in Firearms Classifieds
Posted
Surprised I missed this. Hope you are doing well and catching up. I don't have a big collection, just a few odd pieces. Mostly odd since I like odd things. Told my wife when I die, sell everything she doesn't want. Not giving them to anyone so none of the kids will get "more" than another. Part of my life insurance. Yeah, they are a useable investment. Wish I were in a position to buy, a Wingmaster is on my list. Used my hunting buddy's on rabbit many years ago. Good luck and enjoy!