Fallguy

Exactly....

Well like I said before there is a state curfew law for minors 39-17-1702. So at 18 he could have appeared to be a minor. Waiting for the OP to come back and say what time it was to see if it was after the curfew time. But it does seem a bit far to go just for a potential curfew violation. ...and the statement that you must carry ID is a bit upsetting as well. It is not the first time I have heard of LEOs saying this.

No, it's not a realistic scenario. But the way the question is worded is exactly what leads to the "moral dilemma". You have to knowingly let guilty men go free so as to not take in one innocent person. Because you don't which ones are which. Are you willing to do that and if so, how many?

To clarify...by "go free" I don't necessarily mean those that are already incarcerated (although not excluding them either) I mean more if LEOs rounded up X number of people and in that X number there was 1 innocent person and the rest guilty, but it was not known which one is innocent, what is the highest X number (if any) you would let go so that the innocent didn't go to jail/prison?

Based on a few post in several different threads I got curious about this among the members on here. I had always heard, "It is better to let 100 guilty men go free than imprison one innocent man." But doing an internet search shows quotes with numbers as low as 1 guilty man up-to 1000. Some have even said it is better for more innocents to suffer than to let one guilty man go free. So that is why I am posing this question to you. This not an open poll. No one can see your vote.

Some states do have a "Stop and Identify" law. However TN is not one of them. The Supreme Court has ruled that it is constitutional in the states that have it. There are times you may be required to ID yourself to a LEO, but it can be just verbal, nothing says it has to be a state issued ID. It is just the most common form and mistakenly thought of as the only valid form. What time of night was it? There is state curfew law (39-17-1702). My guess is based on his age that is what the officer was checking if it was after the curfew time.

I have to somewhat agree... I am more upset with the Sheriff and the FOP president for trying to excuse than the deputy who did it. We all make mistakes, he made one. He should have also been ticket and/or incarcerated for his actions instead of just a suspension. But at least he has "paid", although mildly for his actions. But those making excuses, have no excuse.....

They are not supposed to detain you longer than it would take to reasonably take care of why you were stopped, to wait for the dog. But since they found nothing and didn't cite you for anything...hard to do much about it.

Wow....I think that is a real stretch to try and apply "Reckless Endangerment". But one could argue the person tailgating is the one that is creating the dangerous situation. It's only a felony if a deadly weapon is used...but I concede a vehicle as been classified as a deadly weapon in many cases. May I ask where you were taught this?

Yeah, I was able to reprogram the button on my TiVo for 30 seconds.

A felony? Really? What is the TCA code? Oh...and the TCA for "Tailgaiting" is 55-8-124 LexisNexis® Custom Solution: Tennessee Code Research Tool

For me it was the first way. I have had people I consider good friends that we have had about as far different opinions on a subject as two people can have. Once you feel you have presented all of your position, answered all points of the other position and the other person has done the same and no one feels different...no reason to keep going in circles. Yep....more than once I have changed my position on something because I learned things I didn't know before or was presented with a view I haven't thought of before.

I enjoy a good debate and discussion....even more so when it stays that way...lol I feel like that is what I've participated in here.

Yes, if he has "seized" you and you are not free to leave, then you would have to produce ID. Of course he has to have some reason to do this. I agree on either doing his job or being a jerk. Guess I'm just not as tolerant of jerks...lol Sorry to hear about your knee. Guess it's not just jocks that an injury can change their career choice, huh? Hope that was taken in the spirit intended.

That is just my guess. I have my bank account attached to my PayPal as me a credit cards had a bad ride several years ago...and I'm just not ready to be back on that horse again...lol

I understood what you meant about trying to make the best of the situation. Yes...I agree to disagree.

It is my understanding that he didn't OC, but that in the privacy of his own residence a roommate saw his weapon when it was inadvertently exposed. He has admitted that the lease said no firearms, but that he was given a verbal waiver. But when push came to shove, the verbal waiver was not honored. Any who are in possession of weapons on the property are already in violation of the same lease agreement, discreet or not. I think one complaint also was that there are many violations by several tenants of the lease, but it seems they are only selectively enforced and he was just expressing it. In his other post his is simply telling anyone that may want to rent there, that the lease agreement doesn't allow firearms, so if they want to have them, perhaps they should look elsewhere. But that it is not "illegal".

Hmmmm...sounds good...but I may just stick with my beer. But cheers sir...

Yes...my words used to ask a question. You seemed to have answer though...To rephrase it appears you are saying "No" it is not the only way to be courteous. Which is good to hear. You're a better man than me sir...lol Yes, that is how it started. But searches and rights in general have also been discussed and I thought some of your post had addressed them as well. If not then none of my post about them were addressed at you. Hmmmm I don't remember...but I think he did get more than that. But as I said...they never actually said No. Sorry...but "just say yes and get it over with" is too much like letting someone asking to beat the crap of you and hopping they just get it over with. Ummm...the way I see it...If I say No and leave...and you say Yes and they take time to search your vehicle or what ever other reques they've made...I think I'll be the one on the way.

Talk about apples and oranges.... Anyone who sells and/or serves alcohol has the right to refuse to service if they choose. If a condition of them serving me is for me showing ID...well the ball is in my court. But is my choice.

A few With one or two...

I have a friend that if he is watching a show "live" will pause a show for 10-15 minutes on the front end then watch it to skip through the commercials. As far as the topic at hand... I liked the Pilot well enough to watch next week at least...lol

Perhaps he doesn't have online access to his bank account to check the test deposits PayPal makes and will have to talk to someone at the bank. Otherwise I agree signing up is pretty much automated.

So the ONLY way to be courteous is to say yes? If a stranger comes to your house and ask to come in and use the bathroom, the courteous thing to do would be to let him come in right? Or can't you also say, "Sir, I'd rather not. I don't know you and I just don't let strangers into my home." I don't see where that is being rude. I am not trying to hinder a LEO trying to do their job. But them asking to search my car without a reason, is not them doing their job in my opinion. Again...I'm not saying I would always say no...in all honesty, if any request is reasonable, I probably will cooperate. I'm just saying I don't see how it is being mean, argumentative, difficult etc... if you don't. I'm not sure how someone can be legally parked yet blocking me in, unless I am illegally parked. If as screwy as some engineers are (j/k) I don't think any would design a parking lot that would cause cars to trap each other in when properly parked. If I am illegally parked, the person may be nice and move, but if they don't, there isn't much I can do. Just like if a LEO ask to search my home and doesn't have a warrant or PC and I say no...there isn't much he can do. My brother is LEO..yes...really and his wife too...I rode with him one night. There were two ladies at an apartment complex that the manager didn't want there. When we got there, they were outside their car and the manager was there. After it was determined they didn't have any business to be there...they were told to leave. But before that my brother asked several times if he could search their car. Guess he thought something may be in there...I don't know. But they kept asking why and/or trying to avoid the question, but in the end they never said yes. So...they went on their way. When he came back to the car...I don't recall him saying anything like, "Them rude women!! they didn't let me search their car" or "I can't believe how disrespectful they were" etc... He pretty much didn't say anything about it and we went on. Now had the yelled and screamed, called him names etc.... it may have been different, as far as his attitude at least. But while a bit "suspicious" I guess, they were calm and polite as was he. To me one said thing is...I'm sure they felt they couldn't just flat out say No...or were at least scared to. Had they said that, he may not have kept asking. Even if someone is going to say Yes, they should know and not be scared to say No, if they want to.

I concur