Jonnin

I think they renamed this thing the tomcat/bobcat or something silly like that? So yours is a few years older? The serial may contain the date. Its hard to read yours, but either the first 2 or last 2 numbers may be a 2 digit date code, you can google around to figure out how to read the number and get an age. I didnt find it but I did not spend long either, the info is out there somewhere in a forum post most likely. The gun is found in 22, 25, and 32 calibers under a couple of name/model numbers. Wikipedia says 1984 and higher for this design. That was the best I could find. None of the guns I found for sale were over $300 in value, and one site listed the value at $80 roughly. However, that does not mean much, its just what is for sale right now. If it turns out to be older, get a blue book value for it. If its a first year of production (1984???) it may also have some sort of value, etc. Odds are you got a good gun for a great price, and its probably worth a little more than you paid but it does not seem to be "valueable" as in over $500, but thats all at a glance. Word is to carry a small flathead screwdriver or a dowel rod to clear any jams, as they can be stuck hard at times. One site said the gun does not have a true extractor and misfires etc get stuck in the barrel because of this lack. ---------------- If I have to carry a .22 for defense I would use the CCI mini-mags or the aquila large slug .22 round (this is an odd .22 with a short case and an extra large slug... YMMV test them out). THe mini mags have a very low number of misfires from my experience and are fairly consistent loading, able to cycle even stubborn guns. Personally I would get a gun that is no larger but shoots a bigger caliber, but if you must, those are 2 options for the ammo. Other thoughts would be a box of expensive target ammo, which, at the very least, always goes bang even if its not ultra high pressure or bullet weight. 22s are plagued by ammo that fails to fire if you buy cheap ammo.

I guess. Some of the .22LR have fakery on them to look more like a real AR though, and I do/did not know if the bolt can be faked as well (I have not studied the fakes closely, I have no use for another 22LR). If its a 223, the gun wins for sure. In my case, since I am happily married, the gun wins anyway even if its a squirt gun, but I was assuming that didnt count for the purpose of the discussion Great. Now I have that silly old song in my head.... "bikini gurlz with machine guns..."

The rifle looks like a .22, though it may be a 223 or something, in the hands of a woman my sexism kicks in and says its a taticool 22 toy with a target barrel. The woman is ok from the chest down, her manish arms, neck, and face do nothing for me. She probably could be pretty, but her face is distorted by the neck and her flexed pose, making it hard to say 100% for sure what she would look like relaxed. I would turn both down for whatever is behind door # 3, trust to my luck.

Alaska does this. They provide a "permit" if you want to travel (which is accepted by the other states), or you can carry without a permit and stay home. Your choice. I could accept that from TN, but would likely get a permit on paper just to have it as I am near the Ga and AL borders.

Its a bit of a drive, but the shooters depo here in chattanooga is *very* female friendly. The place is clean with some pink worked into the furnishings, female gun stuff (again some pink stuff as well as some carry purses and other female clothing and carry gear), has female staff (almost always 1-2 on duty), and professional permit and other classes. It has a nice indoor range that is always monitored and safe, has a women's restroom, etc. Its not girly, and its not macho, doing a really good job of hitting the middle ground. I am just a customer there, not trying to sell anything, these observations are mine, my wifes, and those of a female co-worker who is new to guns.

did you fire the gun before you poked at it?

These guys are crooks. They want to see and touch and watch you operate your current alarm system, which I did not allow, seems very unprofessional. Also, they lie to your face: the first time it took me 30 min to get the guy to admit that what he was doing is giving you an alarm system for "free" when you buy an ultra-expensive service agreement. For 30 min he kept insisting that the system was free because ADT just wanted to put their sign in my yard for advertising purposes, in hopes that others would see it and want to keep up with the jone's. The truth of the matter required me to become downright hostile to the man, at which point it turned out that his "free" system would cost more than my current one, by a wide margin. I won't go so far as to say he wanted to figure out my system so he could use it to break in or sell it to someone who would try it, but his *demand* to see the system and to *examine* it were very, very odd and felt "off" --- I do not trust these guys AT ALL.

I was not trying to say they were mutex. I was trying to say you probably don't want to do it for practical reasons: a $4000 gun in a holster getting its finish worn of during daily carry is excessive. You are *probably* not doing self defense at 50-100 yards, and do not need to be able to shoot those ranges with your defensive handgun. A $500 or so gun can put every shot in a 1 inch group at 20-30 feet (or if it cannot, something is wrong with it), and if you scratch it, the loss of value is much, much less. If you can afford and want to use the expensive one, go for it, but its not practical for most people. Also practical, most of the target guns are low capacity, while a defensive one tends to have more rounds in the clip, though this is a broad generalization. Also, as I said, my target gun has light springs, thats how it came. Perhaps it could handle it, I have not tried it, and will not, and will not recommend it to others. If you want to do that to your gun, go for it, its your money. I have never stress tested any gun by water, dirt, etc but have seen tests where such were done, including the old glock tests from way back when. Its cool to see such things, but not something one does to an expensive gun for fun (or any gun, unless you have a really good reason to do so, such as a sponser or a contract to test the guns). As you do, I also try to treat all my guns well but the ones I have carried for years have heavy wear on the finish and have had thousands of rounds thru them and show wear internally and externally -- not something I want done to my few expensive ones. And that is all I was trying to say earlier. Durable can be defined many ways. One important way to define it is the value of the gun vs the % condition of the gun. A 4k gun at 90% is a 3.6k gun. You can buy a carry gun for that! A $500 gun at 90% is 450, it still has most of its value! In that sense, durable takes on a practical meaning, and in that sense, the expensive ones are "less durable" as every little scratch, ding, and wear (internal or external) degrades the value of an expensive one at an alarming rate. As far as actual abuse suffered vs function, that is a different defination of durable, and it is probalby going to turn out that both a cheap and an expensive gun can handle about the same amount of abuse/wear --- this defination is not very useful until you get into the guns that are so cheap they break, which is not a big problem in the 1911 market. Its hard to break even the cheap ones.

A good default is a mid sized 9mm. The 9mm ammo is fairly cheap, and there are many, many styles out there to choose from, plenty of fine guns are well under $500. What fits well in your hand is a "pick some up at the store" question. Be aware that not only is the grip important, the trigger style and pull matter. Also note that lightweight guns will recoil more, in general, as will smaller guns, and the smallest/lightest 9mm can have quite a bit of recoil while the largest, heavy guns will have much less (thats very general, other things affect recoil as well, but this is enough to get started). I would also recommend getting a cheap, used .22 pistol to hone your skills. The price of ammo for it will make up for the cost of a second gun in short order, and the practice you can get from it will help you tremendously. I would recommend you rent/try out some guns of different styles, try to get one that is a double action only, one that is double action, and maybe a 1911-alike. Spending some time actually trying stuff out will let you see what you like and dislike for free, instead of the buy it to try it method, which is fun but expensive. There is nothing wrong with a good revolver either, as was said. Revolvers are simple to maintain, easy to use, reliable and powerful. The only real downside to one is a 5-6 shot limit before a pretty involved reloading effort. At the range, reloading a revolver gets old, in my opinion (this is compared to a 15 shot auto that you reload 4 times per box, instead of 9 times per box).

The winchester 100 packs are a good deal @ walmart. Its heavy and shipping costs will eat up your savings online unless you buy in bulk. Gun shows also are great sources of cheap ammo, always seems to be a few booths that sell nothing else.

well that explains why you cant find a darn buckmark in anything but the basic setups for the last few months. Sounds like a neat (but overpriced) way to celebrate the 100 years of 1911, browning style.

There are so many models on the lower end side that a true cross reference between them all is not going to exist, sadly. I have heard that RIA are great pistols (everyone I know with one has been very thrilled with them), and no one I know has ever regretted buying a springfield. When looking to get into bullseye, I was told springfields were some of the best to work on "out of the box" as a platform to get customized, and are great for a "tinker". There is nothing wrong with being cheap, if you do your homework (as you are doing here). Unless you are a pro shooter (either for your job with your life on the line, or for competition, or whatever) there is little reason to buy the really costly guns over a cheap one. My top 10 favorite guns to shoot all cost under $1000, many of them were used. Half were under $500 or right at that. None of them have worn out or broken, and all are pretty accurate (to me that means able to make "pretty much" 1 big hole at 25 -30 feet when using factory ammo). Anyway I do not think what you want exists. If you google around the issue, asking for things like "best 1911 for the money" you find dozens of forums where it is discussed. In those forums the RIA comes up again and again as excellent, the taurus also comes recommended. If you are happy to spend under 1000, you can get some very, very good guns. If you want under 750, you can still get a lot of very good guns, some colts and kimbers, or a used higher quality model, etc are found here. If you want under 500, the RIA and taurus keep popping to the top of the list. Always, a used better quality gun is less and compatible in price to a cheap brand new in the box.

Here is the link for TN hog hunting: Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency - Feral Hog/Wild Boar It is both big game and a pest, so there is no limit as the population is growing to be a problem. As far as I know a 308 is plenty gun to kill one but you will want to check this same website to get the legal take on what caliber is required. Here is the gun types allowed: http://www.state.tn.us/twra/huntweapons.html

Define durable. The guns will take it, but if you abuse them, a $4000 one can become a $500 one in short order, even though it still shoots fine and is somewhat accurate, it will be ruined in that sense and in that sense, it is a fragile thing to be treated with respect rather than abused. The expensive target 45s are not good guns to test fire after dunking them in the mud and running over them with a truck, even if they DO still fire after such. They are not really meant to eat box after box of cheap or hot ammo, and such things can wreck their trigger jobs, target barrels, etc. The expensive combat models, if you want to do this, go for it, but the target ones, no way I would go there. The recoil spring is a good part of it: they are sold/built with a light one and the defense ammo will hammer them. Second, the tight fit of the parts will be hammered faster/more by the harder recoil, high pressure, hot gasses, etc --- normal pistols wear out faster with hot loads, can you see that precision fitted parts will lose that tight fit rapidly under the same conditions? For a target gun, excessive wear and tear is going to degrade the custom gunsmithing that went into it rapidly, until the gun is no better than a regular cheap 1911. It will work, but the precision action and trigger and slide work and barrel will all be degraded and have to be redone.

Many of the ones here are small, and folks leave one by one after the initial opening crowd thins. It would be a possibility at some of these smaller shows, if done carefully. There is always a cop on duty, checking for loaded weapons at the door, so it would have to be done quickly & low profile, but its a definate *could happen*. A dumb move? well anytime someone is stealing its a dumb move, risk of jail usually for less than a week's paycheck worth of takings, but there are those who would try it.

Gun shows do not allow loaded guns, actually. A crook could very well mug someone there safely, assuming all the folks that attend the show are following the rules. This has not historically been an issue, but if I were wanting to steal a gun, this would be a good place to do it, wait for someone leaving with a little plastic case to get to the parking lot then bam...

The AZ law is too new to find any stats on it yet. The stats I found show that 2004 was the worst year so far for accidental gun deaths. Yes, its tracked, but it takes time, the law goes into effect, people slowly buy guns and excercise the new rights, then accidents start to happen (or not). The 2010, 2011, and 2012 numbers for accidental discharges should be good info, once we get them. I could not find a quick reference to the AK accidental discharges. It does not really matter. So long as cars are legal and car accidents are killing more people, the discussion of accidental gun deaths is really just a tool used by the gun control freaks. Accidental gun deaths are something like 2% of all gun deaths, which are not a large number of the total deaths in the country. Its a small % of a small % that folks are worried about here, again its biggest impact is that these stats are a tool for the enemy.

There are different types of high end 1911s. The accurate ones (2 inch or less groups at 50 yards etc) that cost thousands of dollars are designed for accuracy, not defense, and I think you would ruin them if you shot a lot of +p defense ammo thru them --- they are not "durable" in that sense though they can handle many, many thousands of rounds of the target loads; they can also be ruined by abuse such as combat type treatment. By ruined, I mean ruined for competetive shooting, they would probably still *function* but would need many dollars of repair work afterwards to return them to spec. Only point here is that excellent guns means different things, and some of the very pricy ones would be very poor choices for personal defense or plinking. If you want a price cutoff, IMO anything over $2000 should be researched very, very carefully to understand what that gun was designed for (decoration, IDPA, bullseye, combat, etc). Anything under $500 should be researched for potential problems, there are many fine shooters under $500 but the poor quality stuff begins to mingle in at about that price range and below.

If you mean raw numbers, thats 100% going to happen: the more people with cars, the more car accidents, the more people with guns, the more gun accidents etc. The percentages may or may not change much -- it depends really. If folks read the NRA rules that are packaged with every gun that is sold NIB, on the internet, very easy to find and follow, the % of accidents will be about the same. If folks just buy them with zero education, there will be accidents. But the HCP class won't help with this much; unless it has changed. When I went it was 85% legal stuff and a very basic shooting test & written test. I do not even remember them going over the safety rules, though they may have, it was years ago. Safety was NOT the goal of the class, if it was presented it was a side-note.

I spent a lot of time trying to pick between that and the plr-16. I finally went with the PLR though, it was a very tough choice. I may still go back for the 30, if the price drops. A 22 LR version is suprising, a lot more competition in the cheap LR semi autos. I didnt expect that. I am suprised they struggle with the mag; those silly .22 "AR" guns shoot big mags full of .22 LR. Should be easy enough to solve that problem. Once you do that, isnt it a short barrel rifle, costing a bunch of money in a tax to the BAFT?

I am no fan of the "permit". In my opinion, the only permit I need is a copy of the 2nd ammendment, and also in my opinion, NO place can restrict that (cannot be infringed) not airports, not businesses, not courtrooms, nothing. That said, I approve of background checks: criminals have to be prevented from such easy access to weapons. Society has to function and basic attempts to keep guns out of the hands of violent criminals must be made. The class needs to be part of highschool. We see it month after month, though only a few per year how many kids get shot because they were fooling around with a gun? This happens because the kids are taught all about sex and VD, all about dope and booze, but showing them the 3 simple rules of safe gun handling is not presented to them. The class would not be needed if schools would take 1 week off from the "this is your brain on meth" and replace it with a week of safe gun handling. Not even shooting the gun, just explain that all guns are always loaded, do not point them at anything you do not intend to shoot, etc. This would save many lives of these 15-25 year olds that find/buy/etc a gun then shoot their buddy showing it off. The permit does not make me feel that someone with a gun is more qualified (ooo, this guy PROVED he can hit a massive target at short range, barely!!!) than someone who has not had it. Ive seen people who have had the class that are dangerous to be near, and others who can barely hit a 10 inch target at 20 feet. Ive seen guys who dont have a permit who can hit a 2 inch target at 50 feet and who are very safe to be around. The permit and the class are just a tax on the gun owner, and thats how I always have and always will see it.

the 709 is quite a bit larger than these guns. Sig is 5.5 X 3.9 X 1.1 vs the 709 at 6.25 X 4.5 X 1.0 The P3at and clones are 5.2X 3.5 X .75, smaller than the sig. I have a 709 too, and consider it a large pocket gun (getting close to too big), while the 380s are noticably smaller inside the pocket (in hand, not so noticable).

I think it was the publicity. Without it, he would have been left to rot in jail, but the outrage over it was making it much more attractive to let him go. I do not think he would have won that commute or whatever its called if not for the bad PR as a driving force.

It is. But a plastic lightweight gun jumps around like a fish. I prefer the extra weight and control when its needed to having it a bit easier to carry when its not in use. This is why they make both types, choice is good.

we cross posted, when I wrote that all I had was your "grip down" (In my head, that was barrel up) to go with. I type slow!