Handgun Violation Signs

[Guest tiltrotormech]

Hey guys. I just had a quick question. I was on leave in Nashville for the holidays and I saw a sign posted in several businesses that I think is wrong. In all three instances it was the exact same sign. They were posted in two restaurants and one liquor store. The sign stated, and I paraphrasing, "It is a violation of TN Code XXX to carry a firearm in an establishment that sells or serves alcohol". I thought that it was only prohibited to carry where alcohol was sold for consumption on the premises. Are they correct? If you are in the area one was at the Red Robin on Charlotte Pike at the new shopping center. Another one was at the Wendell Smiths liquor store on Charlotte Pike. Just curios if something changed while I was gone or if I was just wrong this whole time.

[Guest TNK]

Your correct...only prohibited where alcohol is sold for on site consumption.

[Guest bkelm18]

Up until a few years ago, those signs were correct, you could not carry anywhere that sold alcohol, period. But it was changed and now you are allowed to carry in establishments that sell alcohol for off-premises consumption (package stores, gas stations, etc.).

[Guest tadams]

Old sign.

Edited January 8, 2009 by tadams
got beat to the punch

[Guest tiltrotormech]

Good to know. I thought that it might be an outdated sign but the Red Robin has been there less than a year. They must have bought it from an old sign supplier. Thanks for the info.

[Guest rockbottom12]

Does anyone expect this to change again? to where carry is allowed in restaurants as long as the individual is not partaking?

[Guest tiltrotormech]

At a minimum, I'd like it to change to Texas' 51% law. That law makes more sense.

[Fallguy]

Does anyone expect this to change again? to where carry is allowed in restaurants as long as the individual is not partaking?

I'll let you know how I feel after the election for Speaker of the House Tuesday.....

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Should mention to the place of business that the signs is outdated....

[Guest HexHead]

Should mention to the place of business that the signs is outdated....

Don't be stupid.

[Volzfan]

Should mention to the place of business that the signs is outdated....

Doesn't matter at any restaurant that serves alcohol. It is against the law whether there is a sign or not.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

I know that but he said 2 restuarants and one liquor store so should tell the liquor store that was what I was meaning to say. Sorry for not being clear on my last post. Working 4am shifts kinda gets to ya sometimes lol

[strickj]

I carry a printed out copy of the TCA about this.Just incase I'm spotted while in a gas station or something,and the cop isn't familiar with this law,I would at least be able to say"officer,I know this used to be the law,but it has changed,and Ive got proof.Could you please ask another officer to validate this TCA print out please."

I actually just showed this to a buddy of mine who just got his permit.He swore that its illegal to carry where beer is sold,because thats what the video said in the hcp class

I dug the law out,showed it to him,and promptly changed his mind

Edited January 10, 2009 by strickj
Whoops....

[bvarnell]

I carry a printed out copy of the TCA about this.Just incase I'm spotted while in a gas station or something,and the cop isn't familiar with this law,I would at least be able to say"officer,I know this used to be the law,but it has changed,and Ive got proof.Could you please ask another officer to validate this TCA print out please."

I actually just showed this to a buddy of mine who just got his permit.He swore that its illegal to carry where beer is severed,because thats what the video said in the hcp class

I dug the law out,showed it to him,and promptly changed his mind

My first beer is usually not "severed" until after I've had the 2nd or 3rd one.

[Guest TNK]

I know that but he said 2 restuarants and one liquor store so should tell the liquor store that was what I was meaning to say. Sorry for not being clear on my last post. Working 4am shifts kinda gets to ya sometimes lol

Why say anything is what I think he was implying...telling them that their sign is incorrect, is just going to get them to put a new correct sign up...

[waynesan]

Here in Kingsport there is an Italian restaurant that I eat at occasionally. I have noticed their "No Weapons" sign in the past but had never really stopped to read the whole thing as I thought it kind of redundant to post a sign banning weapons in a restaurant that serves alcohol. However, tonight when I went in to pick up some food my wife had ordered I stopped to read the sign completely and found it to be just like the sign posted in the OP: "No weapons where alcohol is sold or served." And I remembered this thread that I had just read through last night.

I went on in and picked up my food and just as I was about to leave I thought "why not say something about this and see what kind of reaction I get?" So I told the young man who rang up my order ( I think he is a member of the family that owns the restaurant) that I noticed the sign at the front and that he really ought to get a sign that is current with TN Law and not outdated. He told me that he had just been to a meeting last week of restaurant owners and was told that that sign had to be posted in any restaurant that serves alcohol. I told him that I was sure that the information that he was given was incorrect and explained to him that TN Law has changed and that the sign he has was correct in the past but is no longer. I tried to make him understand there is a difference between a place where alcohol is sold vs. where it is served, but I don't think it ever really sunk in. He was so sure that the sign he has is required I don't think he could get passed what he was defending to listen to what I was saying.

Anyway, I didn't ever sound argumentative and the conversation was pleasant from beginning to end. I think the whole subject was over his head and he really didn't know how to respond to my questions. But he tried, and I'll give him that.

I don't think its a problem to point out an incorrect sign to a place where it is illegal to carry a weapon regardless of what kind of sign is posted. But I would never point it out to a place where it would interfere with my rights if they posted correctly.

[Smith]

Restaurants do have to post the sign along with warning pregnant women not to drink, cancer warnings, etc. Most of them are outdated, but it is what the Health Dept. looks for. They don't care if they are right or not as long as the super ego Health Inspector doesn't knock their score for it. BTW most health scores have very little to do with health and more to do with making the state money.

[Guest bkelm18]

I know that but he said 2 restuarants and one liquor store so should tell the liquor store that was what I was meaning to say. Sorry for not being clear on my last post. Working 4am shifts kinda gets to ya sometimes lol

No. Telling them that they have an incorrect sign will most likely result in them posting a correct "no carry" sign thus making it illegal to carry there whereas it wasn't before.

[Fallguy]

Actually places that serve alcohol are required to post a sign per 57-4-203(k)(1)

Which says....

Each holder of a license to sell wine or other alcoholic beverages for on the premises consumption shall display in a prominent place at the location where such sales are permitted a sign, at least six inches (6") high and fourteen inches (14") wide stating:

MISDEMEANOR. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF ELEVEN (11) MONTHS TWENTY-NINE (29) DAYS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($2,500) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS WHERE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE SOLD OR SERVED.

It's outdated and should be changed....but it hasn't been yet.

Of course this is more of an information sign, and not the same as a 39-17-1359 sign.

[Farman]

I think I went to school with some of you guys.

"Teacher,teacher, you didn't give us any homework."

[Guest nraforlife]

I think I went to school with some of you guys.

"Teacher,teacher, you didn't give us any homework."

Now that's funny.

Come on guys don't stir up the hornets nest. You don't have ANY obligation to correct a businesses wrong posting. You just follow the law and go about your business.

Oops meant Now thats funny...

Edited January 17, 2009 by nraforlife

[Fallguy]

I think I went to school with some of you guys.

"Teacher,teacher, you didn't give us any homework."

LOL...talking about schools.

Schools are are required to post signs also, even though they are already illegal per statute.

39-17-1309(d)(1)

Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display in prominent locations about the school a sign, at least six inches (6") high and fourteen inches (14") wide, stating:

FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.

But just like the places that serve alcohol sign above, I don't think it is intended to prohibit carry like a 39-17-1359 sign, but just to inform you of the law.

Of course the law relating to the language in the school sign is correct, in the alcohol sign, it's not.

On a side note, notice how the law requires exacting wording and sizing on almost every sign it requires to be posted, except 39-17-1359 signs?

[Guest HexHead]

On a side note, notice how the law requires exacting wording and sizing on almost every sign it requires to be posted, except 39-17-1359 signs?

Maybe Naifeh intentionally left the language vague in order to help us out?

[Fallguy]

Maybe Naifeh intentionally left the language vague in order to help us out?

Well I agree there needs to be minimal allowance to change the wording of a standard sign. But only to allow the designation of the area to be off limits, such as "this room", "this floor", "this building", etc....

The main thing I'd like to see (if we are to keep signs) is a requirement on the size of the sign and coloring of the background and letters. So as to make it some what obnoxious looking. So as to be more easily seen by us...and maybe less likely to be posted by the property owner.

[Guest ProguninTN]

I carry a printed out copy of the TCA about this.Just incase I'm spotted while in a gas station or something,and the cop isn't familiar with this law,I would at least be able to say"officer,I know this used to be the law,but it has changed,and Ive got proof.Could you please ask another officer to validate this TCA print out please."

I actually just showed this to a buddy of mine who just got his permit.He swore that its illegal to carry where beer is sold,because thats what the video said in the hcp class

I dug the law out,showed it to him,and promptly changed his mind

Not the old video again. That video is so outdated it should go on the skeet thrower.