The Myth of Energy Transfer

[Worriedman]

Where ya gonna find the paper half gallon milk cartons?

- OS

Buttermilk!

[Worriedman]

I am no expert by any stretch, and thankfully have never had to fire at another human being. That being stated, I HAVE shot a lot of deer over the years, with a multitude of calibers, so I have some experience with seeing the reaction of a live thing to gunfire.

I think the take away from the article is that no matter the caliber, placement is paramount for performance, bullets must contact body parts that will result in incapacitation. Unless the spine is hit, or major bones are broken that will "put" the victim down, the other mode of incapacition is hemorrhage, loss of oxygen to the brain. I have seen deer hit with 180 gr. 30 caliber slugs through the lungs that traveled 100's of yards, lethal yes, but they took minutes to expire. Every hunter knows what a mess a "gut" shot is, regardless of the caliber, they normally result in very slow blood loss, and normally a lost animal. I worked as a crop deprivation "harvester" in TX on a pecan plantation for a while, the tool de jour was a .22 LR scoped bolt action, we shot at night with a light, and I can never remember having to "track" an animal so taken.

The first deer I ever killed, (I was a 14 year old novice), a spike buck rose from his bed at my feet, and I hit him under the spine with a 12 gauge slug at about 10 ft. right at the root of his tail, it denied him use of his hind legs, but he pulled on his front feet for an agonizing amount of time till I could collect myself and get forward and deliver a neck shot to stop that bleating that nearly ended my deer hunting career right there.

I now use a .25 Wildcat round in a single shot (120 gr, bullets) for normal (meat) hunting on my own place, but limit myself to broadside standing shots, which I try to place high in the lungs to transfer shock to the spine. For big buck hunts elsewhere, I carry the 7mm, and go with the 160 gr. bullets for the extra penetration I might need to anchor a once in a life time deer, and under which scenario I do not care how much meat damage I might cause, shot choice then is through the shoulder blades high to the spine.

I have seen huge deer spined go down in their tracks, I have also seen a doe hit 4 times around the edges with a 300 Weatherby Magnum that gained speed with each shot, she got away.

None of that is the same as having a large man, under a full charge of adrenalin coming at you, but I would think tissue and anatomy are similar enough to bear some resemblance.

Kind of like the real estate mantra, location, location, location.

[Guest BungieCord]

...Edit: check out this forum post for the ballistic gel photo

Handgun self-defense loads - High Drag Low Speed

RE: the remarks following the photos of the recovered bullets, "Double Tap" posts: "As seen in the photo above, the bullets recovered from ballistic gelatin show that modern defensive cartridges in the different calibers exhibit similar expansion diameters. Keeping in mind that it is not the size of the hole going in that is as important as the depth of penetration and the amount of bleeding caused within that affects the effectiveness of the bullet, one can see that choosing a handgun solely on the basis of caliber ignores far more important factors."

The recovered 9mm depicted measures 0.62" in diameter; the recovered .45ACP, 0.74". A cylinder 0.74" in diameter has 43% more cross-sectional area than one 0.62" in diameter. This means the .45ACP is 43% more likely than the 9mm to crush something that my assailant will miss.

IMHO, a 43% better chance for survival beggars the description of "similar."

[Guest friesepferd]

My stance on finding the right caliber has always been the same-

You need to figure out what you can shoot quickly and accuratly.

If you can shoot a 45 or 10mm just as well as you can shoot a 9, then carry that.

If you can shoot a 45, but you are significantly more accurate and fast with a 9- then carry a 9.

If you cant hit crap with anything but a 22... well then you need to practice more but I guess for now carry a 22 and go take a class. hopefully you can shoot a 9 well enough in a week or two to switch.