This is where we fight? Confiscation topic.

[Punisher84]

First let me say this, I don't wish for this thread to become a tin foil hat, the government is out to get us type of discussion, but I do wish to discuss something.

I've always thought about it, ever increasingly lately, but after watching 300 yesterday a thought came to me. How many of us would stand and fight?

If the government actually said we are confiscating your firearms and taking a right away from you, how many gun owners would stand against the military and police? Would we line up and scream COME AND TAKE THEM as loud as we could? Would we fight until we won or had all died fighting?

It may never happen, especially not in our lifetime, but that's not to say it can't. I don't mean for everyone to come out saying I'd fight or YEA I'D KILL EM ALL! I just wonder how many gun owners think about these things.

What does Molon Labe mean to you?

[shaftbass]

A common signature on gun message boards

I don't know. I guess I'd have to actually be faced with that situation.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

A common signature on gun message boards

I don't know. I guess I'd have to actually be faced with that situation.

I agree, I would have to see when the time came I guess!

[Guest db99wj]

Go to the woods down the street, from the old oak tree walk 10 paces North, then turn West and walk 7 paces, then.......

Something to think about.

[Guest jackdog]

From and older guy like me, I would fight if It came to that. The Bill of rights should not be messed with. I for one send letters 2 to 3 times a month and various emails to senators and representatives regarding the patriot act. In my humble opinion Alberto Gonalez should go to jail for the crap he has pulled for Duba. I swore an oath many many years ago to defend this counrty against all enemies forgien and domestic, that oath as I see it has no time limit. Molon Labe they would have to come and get them by force. Should it be my day to meet my maker then so be it.

[Punisher84]

As a younger man who has served in the military, I feel strongly about things like honor, duty, loyalty, courage, sacrifice, and freedom. I want to see America stand for something more than I feel it does right now. I feel America is still the best country in the world, but look at our government and the things they do to us, their own people. I wish for better times.

[Guest jackdog]

Should our government ever try to take our weapons than this country would be non existent as we now know it. The federal government would become a dictatorship, (seems they are trying for that a lot of times) So the choice would be to live under a country that, could and would dictate your every action. America would no longer be A Republic. Your choices would be to stand and fight or move elsewhere. I've been to many other parts of the world, and moving elsewhere just will not work for me. Molon labe

[Guest macho999]

My guess is a handful around the country, if that many. They will promptly be branded nuts and terrorists by the media and any message they were trying to send will be ignored or fall on deaf ears if it's even heard. Of course the media may not be too far off in their "nut" assessment. Kind of like this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Martin_Duran

[saintsfanbrian]

It would depend on the situation I am afraid. Unfortunately, we are out numbered by the military and for them to "take away" your firearms would mean a house to house search which would indeed involve military action and compliance. Many people would go out the first day of revocation and gladly hand in their firearms. Why? Because they are law abiding citizens and this is the law. The criminals would still have their guns. More than they do now I would likely say. The rest of the citizens that feel Molon Labe would end up being portrayed as Macho says as nuts and would be scoffed by the media and the general public.

Now, if the military did start marching up the street to confiscate firearms, I think it would be time for a "revolution" but I don't believe it would be much of a fight.

[SkWaShDeM]

This is a situation where you can only answer for yourself when you're looking down the street and see them coming. Do you hoist the Stars & Bars once more and charge the Yankees like a screaming maniac, or do you make nice with them and surrender your guns and your honor? Or do you laugh at them when they can't find your guns because you put them with the moonshine still that the Yankees haven't been able to find in almost 100 years? (=

"We pledge our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." Obviously the government has forgotten about that last one. Congressional and Senatorial term limits would be so nice... They might not like their colleagues as much with someone else calling the shots.

[molonlabetn]

Well... If I was faced with the choice of living under tyranny, or death as a free man, I would much rather do everything within my power to remain free... At least, for those who I love to remain free.

Too many people in this society see ultimate sacrifice in order to retain liberty or principle as extraordinary... When, in reality, every liberating social acheivement throughout the history of America, even the entire history of humanity, was accomplished at the cost of countless lives... many who gave theirs up knowing exactly what they were doing, and why. When this notion is lost, so is liberty.

None of us will live forever, in this world, regardless of what we do... So, what more significant purpose could any of us have than to leave it better than we found it?

I am more or less resolved not to die of natural causes.

Perhaps I should have bought a house in Sparta?

[Guest jackdog]

Saints you may be right about the fight, then again you may be surprised.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

Remember the scenario, they are doing away with the second amendment, would that not be a direct attack on the constitution. Would the military view this as an unlawful order. Just something to ponder.

[Guest jackdog]

For far to many years, The United states has been slipping away from being a republic to being a democracy. To many Americans sit on there fat asses and let the federal and state governments run ruff shod over them. Memorial Day is just another paid holiday for them. Arlington cemetery is just a tourist attraction to them. Ask 10 people what form of government we have. see what the answer is.

[saintsfanbrian]

The question begs though, what about our children? Would they be better off if I fought and died over the right to own a firearm?

I hope like heck it never gets to that. I truly believe that there would be an uprising by more than just the 2A freedom fighters if this were the case, but then again, the only thing people did when alcohol was outlawed was to create it in their own homes and hide it and risked going to jail. So utlimately that was found out to be a bad idea and was overturned.

I think if the laws were changed to remove firearms from individuals, with the mass congregation of people that we have in certain areas, there would be lawlessness and hopefully then the powers that be would realize what a huge mistake they have made. I would hope that a "civil war" were not fought over this topic, though I think it would be.

My wife and I have had the discussion about what we would do. If it were just the two of us, we would fight to the end, but we have 2 small children that we have to think about also. I know, keeping the 2nd is important for their future, but me being alive to help guide them is also important. What out weighs the other?

And, Jackdog, I too remember taking that oath. I too wonder how many of them would actually take up arms against their fellow Americans over a "lawful" order. Remember, if Congress changes the bill of rights by removing the right to bear arms, they would be following a lawful order. Though the "enemies" giving it would be domestic ones.

[RandyC]

As I see it, a more likely scenerio would be the governor declaring a state of emergency after either a natural disaster or a large terrorist strike. He's already spoken of suspending the Bill of Rights and confiscating our guns in such a case.

Hello National Guard.

The federal courts would most likely overturn it, but what do you do in the meantime while some kids in uniform come trampling all over your uninfringable rights?

[molonlabetn]

The question begs though, what about our children? Would they be better off if I fought and died over the right to own a firearm?...snip...

I think another way to look at this, is, to ask yourself how you would protect and provide for your children if you gave up your weapons.

IF it comes to that, this society will be in such a bad way that there will only be 2 choices:

- dependance entirely on ones own resources and initiative

or

- dependance on the government, in return for complete control and vulnerability to its corruption and tyranny

Simply look at history (and current events in other countries) to find which choice has always resulted in a more favorable outcome for oppressed people...

So, resolve now where you will fight... You really need to know where that line in the sand is before you cross it.

[saintsfanbrian]

As I see it, a more likely scenerio would be the governor declaring a state of emergency after either a natural disaster or a large terrorist strike. He's already spoken of suspending the Bill of Rights and confiscating our guns in such a case.

Hello National Guard.

The federal courts would most likely overturn it, but what do you do in the meantime while some kids in uniform come trampling all over your uninfringable rights?

This is the true likely scenario. A Katrinaesque situation. Granted, here in Memphis, there would be bedlam and martial law would be declared. King Willie would run to Southaven where he would be safe and the police (okay not all, but probably a decent sized portion) would be in league with the looters. If that happened, the time will have come for me and my family to say goodbye and good ridance to this part of the country. We would be on the way to the East with guns in car.

If the storm troopers came to the door, I would like to think that there would be enough of us to stop them. I would also like to think that there would be a few states that would at that time decide to "seceed" from the nation. Montana is one I would think would be in that group and probably many of the southern states. There would probably be a civil war over this scenario and under those circumstances, it would be time to "join up" again to fight for my rights. I don't really like the scenario, but that is absolutely a worst case scenario and one that would be evaluated if and when the time comes.

It is easy to say, yup, from my cold dead hands but once the bullets are flying, well, that is a whole different story.

[Guest jackdog]

Unlike many, my children are fully grown. I can well see where having small children, would be an issue. Remember we stand today as the United States of America a Republic, because our fore fathers refused to live under oppression and tyranny. Many men with families and small children paid the ultimate price that far to many Americans take for granted. Saints I don't think taking up arms against my fellow Americans or government would be easy at all. I have thought long and hard about this issue over the past view years.

[Guest DEIMOS]

I also have thought alot about this. I truely feel that I would fight. This fight would need a unified front. Small groups here and there would be much easier to crush, although the conflict may just start that way.

My mindset is that if 'they' try to subjugate we the people, any order they give is not a lawful order.

Many people don't care as long as they think that it does not affect them or, they have the "as long as I get mine" attitude.

You can bet your bottom dollar that we will be labled terrorists, insurgents and criminals. The flip side is join the flock and and give up everything this country stands for.

[Guest Len]

Fascinating thread! One thing I have always thought is that the process of eroding our rights is slow slow, so subtle, that most people wont even notice it. And even if it wasnt so subtle (think Patriot Act), most people would probably not notice/care. Think about that, the so-called Patriot Act was nothing but a govt power grab, and many people just yawned and turned the channel.

If you dont remember a better way, the way things are now probably seems pretty good to you. Thus the importance of knowing history.

I am absolutely amazed at the level of historical ignorance the students coming to my college display. The number 1776 came up in a class discussion a couple of weeks ago. (I dont teach History) I said something to the effect that 1776 would be easy to remember because of what happened that year. They looked at me like I was insane. So, I asked, "What happened in 1776?" One hand (ONE!!!!) went up.

How can we expect the citizens of this country to fight for their rights when many of them have no clue about the past history of this country? If they dont know what the Bill of Rights is, how can they fight for it? Or argue for its preservation?

I know I have said this over and over again, and I will say it once more now: The key is EDUCATION. So many of my students have never been out of Tennessee, never seen Arlington, DC, Independence Hall, etc. They learned nothing in school to this point, or promptly forgot it. Most of these kids are native Tennesseans and know less about the interesting history of this state than I do, a person who never set foot here before 1994.

We may lose the fight for our rights because half the country does not care and the other half does not know what they are in the first place.

-Len

[towerclimber37]

Brian, if it gets that bad, head this way...there's plenty of room at the house and its pretty defensible!

[Guest jackdog]

I agree totally with Len. Color me stupid but exactly when did we stop teaching our children American history. When did we stop requiring students to pass a constitution test in order to graduate. And who redesigned these requirements.

[SkWaShDeM]

I agree totally with Len. Color me stupid but exactly when did we stop teaching our children American history. When did we stop requiring students to pass a constitution test in order to graduate. And who redesigned these requirements.

Politicians who thought political correctness and not offending anyone was more important than teaching us to learn from the past so we do not repeat the mistakes of our forefathers.

The high school curriculum is a joke these days. My high school US History class started at Ft Sumter and ended at Hiroshima & Nagasaki. We didn't cover the Gold Rush, the Wild West, anything between 1900 & 1910, we glossed over the Depression and the reforms of FDR and his bunch of cronies. Government class was a bigger joke apparently. I got lucky and took online AP Government, but the rest didn't do squat. They didn't even cover the election process or the amendment process for the constitution. Hence why nobody knows anything about US History in your classroom Len. But if you want to meet a couple college students with an understanding of US History that might even spark some spirited debate and conversation, let me know if you're near ETSU sometime. I can round up some friends who actually have a clue.

[Guest jackdog]

unless something has changed, I don't believe congress can do away with second amendment, unless they write a new amendment and it is ratified by all the states. So to answer the question it would not be a legal order.

[Guest Len]

Jack: Congress would have to pass with a 2/3majority in each house a constitutional amendment, then it would have to be ratified by 2/3 of the states in order to actually go into effect. There is no deadline on this process. If the amendment passes into effect, the only way to change it wouldbe to offer a new amendment (see prohibition and its repeal). It is VERY hard to change the constitution (IMO, it should be hard), and getting 2/3 of Congress and the state legislatures to agree on the time of day is virtually impossible!

Skwash: I agree with you on the HS curriculum, at least mostly. The state requirements are not much, and the quality of education varies so much from county to county, even school to school, depending on whether the principle gives a damn or not. I've seen kids come from big, well-funded schools systems who know their stuff, and I've seen kids who were the valedictorians at their high school in some rural county have to take remedial classes in college. So, we have a deadly mix:

1) Under-funded schools

2) Lousy teacher prep in many cases (quality of teacher education is low)

3) Many of the best and brightest deciding not to go into teaching due to pay, hassles, etc.

4) As a result of 2) and 3), some pretty lousy teachers.

5) Low expectations from the state

6) Pressure to inflate grades or dumb-down the curriculum so everyone gets a lottery scholarship

7) Lots of people who dont care or who are not inspired to learn

8) A culture where "smart" is often seen as "un-cool" (especially urban boys)

Glad to hear some students at ETSU have it going on. I hear generally good things about that place.

-Len