molonlabetn

Since no-knock warrants were brought up, the reference to one's response in their home is just as valid as on the street. The scenario and location would be different, but the potential harm would be no less. I'm not proposing anything other than introspection and debate about the subject of reasonable and justifiable response to un-lawful arrest, wherever that might take place.

Nice! Glad ya'll had a good time. I'm looking forward to pictures and reviews...

Already addressed this above. So, if the police show up at your door one day to order you to surrender your firearms...? (assuming that you have not broken a law which requires this) Regardless of what any of us do, the outcome would be undesirable. If he had a chance, what should he have done? My HCP class didn't cover an in-depth analysis of case-law regarding crimes committed by law-enforcement officers, and the best responses to them... And no, I didn't sleep through it. That comment adds nothing to this discussion.

That's just it, Judges and Juries HAVE ruled on such cases in favor of a defendant's right to defend themselves from unlawful arrest. The sticky part would be knowing whether a given situation which one finds themself in, applies... which is why I amicably agree with others that such actions are only justifiable in the most extreme cases. I brought this up to promote debate (and awareness) of how to recognize them. Not to build any argument that we should actively (or passively) try to undermine lawful police activity. I know too many good men in uniform who I would trust to do the right thing, and support them in that... This is only a valid speculation of what a 'worst-case' scenario might entail, and weighing the consequences for compliance vs. resistance in those situations. There is no question in my mind, as a matter of principle, that there is never reasonable cause to disrupt official activities which pose no harm to me/family/loved-ones, even if they are not strictly legitimate. This is not an issue which I am trying to find an excuse to 'fight the police' on... I wish their job were easier and more clear-cut, while at the same time insisting that law-abiding citizens are not oppressed for exercising their rights.

I'm not arguing that it is always (or even frequently) prudent to resist unlawful arrest. But in terms of the question; whether it is lawful to do so under specific circumstances, I would encourage everyone to review these case-law citations: http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm Please understand that I would never lightly advocate or willingly chose violence at any level. And I suspect, neither would this country's founders have, but when it comes a choice of preserving liberty, or exchanging it for temporary security... We all know which route is right, just as it was 200 years ago, and it does come with some risk of being called a traitor or danger to peaceful society by those who do not understand what it takes to preserve liberty. They choose the path of least resistance. It is not, then, something which can be explained to you... You must feel it.

I have, for the last few years tried to make it a point to visit the local Hardees or the like, and buy a breakfast or two for the vets who I know frequent there... Many good times and good conversations. God Bless The Men and Women Volunteer Heros of our Armed Forces! That goes for all of the vets and those who currently serve, on TGO. Thank you!

Exactly... that is the crux of the matter. And I agree with your statement, when it comes to simple questioning. The big question is, where do you draw the line where it is no longer tolerable to comply with un-lawful demands?

Nice pistols, all of 'em. Stick around, there's always something going on. Make yourself at home. Welcome!

I have no problem identifying myself. I don't think that anyone who carries would, especially in this state, where it is required. The issue is when a LEO happens to see that you are carrying, and for no articulable reason tries to disarm or arrest you. There is a debate going on regarding what the proper (or most reasonable) response should be, and where the line is.

http://immigrationcounters.com/ http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~economic/econ104/immigrat/ http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back1302.html http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/imm_local/index.htm http://www.parapundit.com/archives/001731.html I have no more arguments, these facts speak for themselves. If they are unclear, I cannot make them any clearer.

From the 3rd paragraph:

If it ever gets so bad that police officers are uniformly a barrier to the liberty or existence of myself or loved-ones, contrary to the law or my rights, I'm sure that having a lawyer will be the least of any of our problems. In the more likely cases, only a fool would react violently or escalate an encounter with a LEO. However, anyone who would not attempt to retain their rights through diplomatic means, does not deserve them in the first place. There's a difference between being stubborn, and having a back-bone.

This one has been getting really interesting. I'd like to see what some of ya'll think: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/2682-1.html This thread was initiated by another, here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/2469-1.html Both get a several posters rather heated (including me), and a few even a bit rude. Some of you will possibly disagree with my position, I can accept that. Bear in mind that I have a very positive and supportive position with regard to Law-Enforcement and police officers, just not the few bad apples which are discussed in those threads. The recent Castle Doctrine legislation which passed here in TN bears some negative liability, related to some of the extreme positions in these threads, in terms of defending one-self from a LEO.

Some is not plenty, if it were, their contributions would sustain the expenses which they incur. As it is, they don't even come close. But, even if they DID pay in enough taxes to cover what they cost our society, their presence is no more legal or right. There's one small detail, the ICE doesn't presently have the manpower to enforce these laws, which is why all LE agencies should be required (not just granted permission) to strictly enforce them. Border security agents have their hands tied, so even if we were more efficient at deportation, the influx is not being controlled. Which is exactly why many of my points are geared toward making it undesireable to them, for them to be here, and nearly impossible to find a job or way to function. Perhaps it's cold-hearted, but I'd rather them choose to not come, because they can't feed their families here or be profitable. And don't even get me started on the free education and un-restricted voting which they take part in, without any accountability.

For one, my disgust has NOTHING to do with race. I don't care if these people are Mexican, Somalian, Chinese, Canadian, Czech, Iraqi, etc... If they are bumming their health care expenses off of the work paid by my taxes or inflated insurance premiums without intention to contribute, they are all worthless. Here's what I want: 1. Remove the responsibility of hospitals and public health clinics to provide non-emergency treatment to those who cannot pay, have not paid relevant taxes, and have no health insurance. Private practices can work for free all they want, but if they choose to be charitable, don't send me the bill. 2. Enforce stiff penalties upon employers and banks who pay or lend money to illegals. 3. Delegate responsibility to all LE bodies to deport or exile criminals who are found to be in this country illegally. No more catch and release. Revoke all bail, and prohibit the posting of bond for any undocumented foreign national. 4. Arrest all drivers who do not hold a valid US drivers license, and see #3. Foreign nationals who are in this country LEGALLY, have overwhelmingly taken the required steps to maintain that status, and integrate productively with the American society. The distinction is clear, I come across them every day, just about... And no, I don't see every Hispanic as a 'wet-back', as you say. I see the ones who come across the Rio Grand to become a parasite on the wealth of those who not only work, but bear the responsibility of those who do not, as 'wet-backs'. It's a relevant term which has been decried as racist due to improper useage. I prefer "Insurgent", myself... to keep panties un-wadded. Either way, the solution is not to shoot them... What the heck would we do with 12-20 million bodies, then? The Mexican (or their respective) governments must deal with them, or be dealt with by their people... It is wrong for us to be required to unwillingly carry this culture, when they refuse to stay and take responsibility for their country, themselves. You and I owe them nothing, and it's about time that we refuse to be victimized.

Just because the government spends money on something, doesn't mean that anything is really being done... trust me, I know. Second... if illegals are ineligable for all but emergency care, then why is the Bedford County Health Dept paying for fertility treatment for a handful of Shelbyville 'undocumented' Mexican women, on the dime of state taxpayers, simply so they can breed here more conveniently? Or, walk into the out-patient wing of any hospital in the southern parts of the border states (or Shelbyville, TN, for that matter)... Reality is not what you read in political propoganda. The hospitals are having to submit fraudulent claims to insurance companies for uninsured illegals, to minimize their losses... Numerous hospitals have gone bankrupt. No, we're not ONLY paying for their emergency care. And they go to the hospital alot... where do you think they get their pain meds to sell on the street corner? "ohhh sen'or doktor, mayyy'a shewlder ees very much peyn, caan ju geev me somting to feel betar?" "noooo nooo sen'or doktor, no eeenshoorance..."

I've got it tweaked enough to be somewhat user friendly... Warning, lots of data. HANDGUN FEATURES DATABASE

I have several brands of 1911s listed. Kimber, Sig, S&W, Springfield, Colt, etc...

It's just like 'mexican' carry, except there is a smaller chance that the gun will fall down through your pants. It might be useful used in a pocket, IF you didn't carry anything else in that pocket... But I still would be hesitant to use any gun with it that wasn't designed for pocket-carry already (ie heavy trigger-pull)

Mine took about a month and a half, as I recall... 4 years ago... Welcome to the forum!

That's a pretty sweet offer! I'd spring for a 5.11 polo, myself... I've been meaning to get some anyways, for a while.

Some spam blockers will automatically delete e-mails with a large number of recipients... That, or it could have been the subject line reading "From my Cold, Dead Hands!" I'd say the e-mail settings being against your favor as more likely...

I don't wear caps much, but I'd buy a shirt or two... a polo-shirt and/or button-up, not a t-shirt. Even some embroidered patches to have sewn into my leather jacket and/or range-bag... On a lighter note... perhaps we could have some Handgun Carry Permit badges made up with the TGO logo in the center, and our screen-name handles across the bottom?

True, but sometimes it's good to lighten up for a bit and have some fun... Gaining familiarity with your firearm is never completely useless. Even video games can aid the development of reflexes, and I don't know anyone who would advocate fully replacing live training with them, regardless of the format.