Marswolf

Here's a handy site to check whether your permit is honored in other states. Just click on Tennessee and look at the map. http://handgunlaw.us/

Thanks for taking time to reply, Lurky1. I'd suggest doing some additional research. Might start with http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.html. Oddly enough, the lack of any real safeties is one of the few things I like about Glocks. Search the topics here too. I owed two Glocks at one time but now consider them to be an unsafe design. No need to beleaguer the point. BTW, this is what it looks like when a G23 blows up from a case failure due to the poor chamber design: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vceh44UK-8I&eurl=

Well, as long as the guns you are getting from your mom are not on California's forbidden list, she just needs to have a local gun shop ship them to a gun shop you have talked to about doing a transfer. Not difficult, just time consuming. Just ask your local shop about it. Or, if You are coming for a visit, you can just take them home with you in luggage. Frankly it's less of a hassle to ship them. Might cost a few bucks though. I'm curious about something. If you look around here a bit, you'll find I really don't like Glocks except possibly as a professional duty weapon. I'm not trying to talk you out of it though. I'm just wondering how you have narrowed your choice to probably a Glock with all the other guns out there.

See http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1653 for details. Phantom6 is the guy who sets it up. I never know till the last second if I can come. So far, the best I've been able to do is have barbecue with some of the TGO folks.

BATFE is like any other area of LE. Some of their guys are self-important punks and most are just trying to pay their mortgage.

I'd love to get together and do some friendly shooting. 200+ miles may be a bit far.... Maybe we could do it at Phantom's place in Oak Ridge next month. I've even missed the past two shoots we've done 20 miles from me. I'd probably use my old Beretta 92SB, since that is my most accurate handgun - in my hands. When you carry something for 20 years, it gets to be a friend and extension of your body. But it was frequently shot well in excess of 25 yards for defensive situations. But I have done a lot of defense in jungles. But I've never suggested that Glocks can't be accurate. I only suggest that they are lacking in the area of design safety. I have a friend who is semi-retired from law enforcement. LE is, you will note, one of the few areas in which I think Glocks are acceptable, if not just peachy. There are better choices for that application too. He's now a constable. Much better shot than I am. His G23 has become an extension of his body over the many years of use just as my Beretta 92 has for me. It was a good professional choice for him when he started with it. When we get together we frequently shoot at soda cans set on top of the 100 yard standards. He uses the G23 and I use the USP 40. We don't pick them off with every shot, but we get close enough that you wouldn't want to be holding the can in front of your chest. We've done the same thing with 1911s. Just have to aim higher. BTW, as an aside, I saw a note posted by a military friend in the Philippines this morning. He said that last night one of the officers in the next barracks "almost lost his manhood to a glocking." They thought their perimeter had been breached. When they kicked down his door he was "standing there all pale and bewildered with his pants smoking in the crotch area." To be fair to Glock, that can happen with any handgun that you have to pull the trigger to field strip. That's why I don't carry any guns that have to be dry fired to field strip.

I suggest we put the shooters at each end of a 100 yard range with a target on their chest and make them shoot sub-gun rounds.

What's underwear?

I don't blame you!

It depends on how you plan to carry it. If you open carry, a lot of guns will work. For concealed carry, I find that flatter guns work best. Price also comes into play. How much are you willing to spend? For safety reasons, I specifically do not recommend any Glock. I'm not kidding. SURPRISE!!! One gun that looks and feels good, but that I haven't shot, is the Kel-Tec PF-9. I use a H&K P7M8 for IWB carry, but most people pass out at the price of that little gem. 45s are not a bad choice for carry, since they are so good at close distances. But I never carry with a safety on. The gun must be always able to be fired. This largely eliminates the 1911s unless you are comfortable with them cocked but unlocked. I'd go with either sa/da or dao. If you want a 45, take a look at the Taurus 24/7. Unfortunately I think they have discontinued their dao model. It was an excellent pistol.

I'll supply the ammo. I have a friend who does really hot reloads. I think I still have a box of them in 45 ACP. I'll have him do some in 40 S&W and 9x19 too. My USP manual says to not use reloads, but they work fine. I think it's just a legal thing for H&K rather than a serious prohibition. Tell you what, I'll do two rounds with the USP for every one round through the Glock. Same with my Beretta 92SB that I've shot sub-gun rounds in. Of course there may only be one round through the Glock.... Where do we meet?

You can loads rounds that will blow up any gun. But which gun do you automatically think of when you hear of one destructing? Which gun do you think of when you hear of someone accidentally shooting themselves? There's a reason for that.

Good post Phantom. You need to not look like a victim. This applies to non-violent crime too. Some years ago I was on a tourist trip in Mexico. They always take you to the bull ring in Mexico City and that area lets in locals who are some of the better pickpockets in the world. Before we went in, I warned the sheep...errr...other tourists about the problem. Then I spent the whole time maneuvering between the pickpockets and the tourists. All it took was a knowing look and body language to indicate I could handle the situation to keep them from approaching me. The tourists won that skirmish. There is another lesson here. Don't go to places where you are likely to become the victim of crime.

As always, I won't know till the last minute if I can get there.

Time to move this off the sticky list, but it will remain open for posts.

Someone else has already made most of the points I would make about 45 ACP chamber pressures and such. The Kel-Tec P3AT, which I think is a fantastic little gun, also has a partially supported chamber, but you are only looking at 21,500 PSI. 45 ACP +P is only 23,000 PSI. 40 S&W is 35,000 PSI as is 9mm Luger, but the larger diameter of the cartridge gives a larger unsupported surface area. An unsupported chamber is just a really bad design in 40 S&W. If pressures were higher, it would be a worse design in 45 ACP, but that isn't the case. American brand ammo is junk, but in most handguns if it doesn't fully load, the gun won't fire. In a Glock it will. I can see absolutely no reasonable excuse for this. H&Ks generally have a polygonal bore. But they don't blow up like Glocks. In fact, tests have been done with purposely blocked USP barrels and all you get is a swelling of the barrel, not a kaboom. It's a matter of good design. Glocks have three good features. They load reliably with quality ammunition, they are accurate, they don't have a hammer to scare the public. A fourth point is that they are relatively inexpensive to LE. All this explains why it is a usable handgun for LE. But they do have safety problems caused by the chamber and out of battery firing. The public doesn't always want to follow the restrictive ammo requirements and there is less safety factor in a Glock compared to other quality handguns. I won't even get into the "Glock butt / Glock leg" thing, but that is also a design problem that other guns don't have. If used carefully and according to instructions, Glocks work fine - in spite of their lousy design. I just don't understand why people refuse to see Glock's flaws when they are pointed out to them and who staunchly defend the handgun. I owned two Glocks. I objectively looked at the design and got rid of them.

No point in re-beating a dead horse. As I said before: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613 has more as does http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497. The unsupported section of the Glock chamber and its willingness to fire out of battery make it a dangerously bad design. The number of catastrophic failures of the weapon shows it to be a real problem rather than a theoretical one. The fact that you can get away with firing the weapon without it always blowing up is a testament to modern cartridge design and manufacture. I was less hard on Glock until I bought the case of American 40 S&W cartridges. That's "factory ammunition", if cheap factory ammunition, and some rounds were sufficiently out of spec to prevent my USP from going into battery. Apart from being annoying, that wasn't a problem in the USP as it would not fire in that condition. I hate to think what might have happened if I had been shooting a Glock instead. You may see this as Glock bashing if you choose. I see it as objective analysis. I look at the facts and draw conclusions. All guns are tools. I don't care how they look or who carries them. I do care how they work because my life depends on it.

The way I look at Fred, he isn't exactly what I want, but he is so much better than every other choice running right now I'd have to vote for him. What we really need to do is elect representatives that actually represent our views. Or at least they need to represent my views. I really don't care about your views.

Yeah, you are a Democrat too. Just can't do anything right.... I'm interested in how it shoots. Problem is, it's still a Glock with the same design flaws. [heads for bunker]

Misposted above. The $349.95 price is for AL or Stainless Steel, not Titanium. In fact Ti isn't even available right now.

Well, do give us a range report as soon as possible. That's why it it isn't on the gun but held out to the side.

CCF RaceFrames, LLC. makes frames for Glocks in Aluminum, Stainless Steel and Titanium. Since this is a frame, it is "the gun" as far as BATFE is concerned so it has to go through a FFL. Among the options are a 1911 grip angle. All your current Glock parts just drop into the new frame. It adds a bunch of weight to the pistol and a hefty price as an accessory. Prices go up to $349.95 for AL or Ti next week, so order today!!! I saw one of these recently in a gun shop but have never fired one. Anyone here have any experience with these or know anything about them?

David, maybe you could suggest to Tim Nunan that he sign up here too?

OK Bob, you got me beat. I only go back to MACV in '69.

Looks like a nice place. I'd wondered what The Rabbi looked like.