Marswolf

I'm not particularly concerned with the possibility of a thug getting another firearm. Criminals will always be able to get guns. It's like carrying into a restaurant that serves alcohol. Do you want to obey the law or do you want to protect your family? But you know the consequences of being caught - don't you? (Class A Misdemeanor - 11 months 29 days - $2,500. Not a felony as I've seen some people write) For getting caught at work with a gun you aren't supposed to have, you get fired. If it's posted, you also might get a $500 fine. Here is the incident I mentioned above. It's good support for being allowed to carry in your car at work. But it doesn't address employer condition of employment rights. Note the bullet hole in the window Woman, man gunned down in parking lot Saturday, Dec 09, 2006 - 02:00 AM BY Daniel Taylor BRISTOL, Va. – A man shot his estranged wife and another man to death Friday afternoon in Dana Corp.’s parking lot and then waited for police to arrive and arrest him, authorities said. Yellow tape surrounded a section of the parking lot and police scoured the scene for evidence after authorities said Carl David Ray, 35, 19486 Manchester Drive, Bristol Virginia, shot two plant employees. The victims were his wife, Tracy Ray, 36, 18371 Ironwood Loop, Abingdon; and Randall O’Quinn, 42, 22245 Green Spring Church Road, also of Abingdon. The pair was shot "multiple times" with a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol as they sat in O’Quinn’s pickup truck at around 1 p.m. Authorities said Carl Ray worked near the plant, although police weren’t sure exactly where. He recognized the couple and drove to the plant armed with a pistol, according to city Police Detective Steve Crawford. Carl Ray, who had a concealed weapons permit, parked his car near the truck, got out and shot the couple, Crawford said. Police said Tracy Ray was separated from her husband. Several plant employees said she and O’Quinn had a relationship and the shooting likely stemmed from jealousy, but police would not discuss a possible motive. "We’re not willing to speculate on a motive yet," said city Police Detective DeeDra Branson. After the shooting, Carl Ray sat down next to his car and surrendered peacefully when police arrived, authorities said. O’Quinn died at the scene. Tracy Ray was taken to Bristol Regional Medical Center, but was pronounced dead soon after. Police weren’t sure how many times the couple were shot, but O’Quinn had been shot at least once in the head, Crawford said. The bodies were taken to Roanoke for autopsy. Crawford said Carl Ray did not have a criminal history and that the shootings did not appear to be planned. Despite the double-murder, employees continued to come and go as the plant continued operations throughout the day. It has been about a year since Dana filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, and the plant on Thomas Road was expected to close by early 2007 and outsource its jobs to Mexico. The facility employed about 270 people at the time of the announcement. James Gilley, who has been a sales technician at the plant for 16 years, said all the employees were "numb" after learning of the shooting. "I’m stunned," he said. "It hasn’t sunk in real good yet." Carl Ray remained in the city jail Friday night without bond on two counts of first-degree murder and two counts of using a gun while committing a felony. He has a court appearance set for Monday. dtaylor@bristolnews.com | (276) 645-2531

I only have a couple of gun boards that I check every day. That's about all I can handle.

Do you keep the light on the handgun in the holster, or attach it when needed?

Florida does have open carry without a permit - but not while in a car. Go to http://www.opencarry.org/ and click on Florida.

I think the concern on the P3AT is that it isn't unusual to have a feeding issue until it gets broken in 50 to 100 rounds and it won't load properly if you don't pull the slide all the way back and release it. No nursing of the slide as it closes. But I've seen the same problems on 1911s and other guns. The problem is with the operator, not the gun. I have no idea whether the Seecamp is more reliable than the P3AT. I do know it is more picky about ammunition. I've never seen a cartridge that the Kel-Tec doesn't like. I do know that there a lot of us professionals carrying the little Kel-Tec as a BUG, so I think it can be considered reliable. I think it is. But the Seecamp certainly has more class.

This thread more or less shows my original point - that this is not a simple issue. There appear to be some rights that could be viewed as in conflict. Since you don't have a "right" to work for a particular company, I don't see that your rights are violated if they say you can't have a gun in your car while you do your work there. Companies also have all sorts of restrictions on free speech while at work that don't apply once you leave the work site. There are some interesting twists in legislating this sort of "gun rights" law. See http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/24/86/79.html for some interesting reading. It largely parallels our discussion here. See also http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-guns2807mar28,0,6474382.story?coll=orl-news-headlines-state This year's legislation (SB 2356) is much more far-reaching than last year's bill. Dubbed the "Individual Personal Private Property Protection Act of 2007," it would forbid an employer from stopping workers or customers from storing any "lawfully possessed" product in their cars when they park on a company's property. It would also make it illegal for employers to search an employee's car. I suspect the union support is so they can have union materials in their car rather than a concern for 2A issues. I think they see personal property rights as affecting their 1A rights.

Now you've done it....

I think you make a good point that there is nothing in the Constitution which allows the government to prevent arms on any property, including Federal installations. But if the government can and does do so, it seems to me that private institutions have the same right.

I'd like to agree with that, but I just can't. I respect private property rights too much. A no gun policy is foolish but I can't say that is something that should be forbidden by law. But it is something that should make good people at the company look for a place that respects self-defense. There is nothing that makes you work for such a company. It's a voluntary decision. And the public should boycott the company's products and let them know about it. I know that probably isn't a popular thing to post here.

Until we get some of the anti-gunners out of the House, it would be a futile effort. But this isn't a cut and dried issue. Telling an employer he can't enforce certain employee restrictions in the use of his own property as a condition of employment is problematic. I don't agree with banning guns on company property for a lot of practical reasons, including one local double murder a few months ago when an estranged ex-husband came to a company and shot and killed his former wife and her boyfriend who were defenseless since they didn't have a gun. They were at one of their vehicles. Companies that allow guns in cars should be protected from lawsuits, but IMO forcing the company to allow it smacks a bit of Big Brother and we have too much of that now.

I think you must like that Seecamp. I'm not awake good yet and it took me a minute to figure out what the Seecamp magazine is in the photo. My first reaction was wondering what you used the clevis pin for. I have a knife that looks very similar to your Buck, but mine has the Browning name on it. Bought it in the early 70s when I lived in Raleigh. The finish on the wood came off the first time I forgot to take it out of my pocket when I washed some jeans. So I did a tung oil finish and it's been impervious to everything ever since. The Browning knife has become a camping blade. The knife I carry these days is a Gerber Applegate - Fairbairn Covert Folder. It was a recommendation by a North Carolina LEO friend.

Hey, that looks pretty neat. I particularly like the rock grandstand.

No, he was pretty close. "Every generation needs a new revolution.â€

I thought Len might provide the info you need.

So you took 1-3 but they want the revenue from those classes before they will do the instructor course? Good grief. Good luck. I'll bet someone here can suggest a good honest place to get the instructor certificate.

Yeah, I'm not there yet, but I'm sure I'll be working on a good load for 357 SIG not too far down the line.

My Beretta 92SB goes back to about 1984 or so and has served me well. Right now I'm still using it as a field pistol. I have no idea how many rounds have gone through it. A bunch. I agree about Beretta's obsession with wide guns. Replacing the grips on the 92 helped but that isn't an option with the polymers.

Looks like Walther's answer to an improved Glock. It does have some nice features, like the adjustable backstrap that de-cocks the piece if removed. While the firing system is different, it draws comparison to the Kel-Tec PF-9. The PPS is a bit longer and quite a bit heavier but the other dimensions are pretty close. I'll be interested in seeing an operating manual for the PPS. But it looks like a Glock clone with additional features. Hope they didn't copy that chamber design. Walther claims it's based on their P99, but the takedown controls and trigger look a lot more like a Glock than a P99 or PPK. But it is less ugly....

I've always thought the bowing thing was dippy too. No need for it. The military doesn't bow to each other after hand-to-hand practice. Why do it as civilians? I don't understand the 35 year old thing either. He's a Vietnam SF vet and as mentioned he still teaches classes to SF. I know enough about him from talking to others who have worked with him to know he's the real deal. His focus is on practical techniques, but the has extensive classical training too.

I like clip IWB holsters as well. Don Hume works for me. While this has the P3AT in it, I use the same holster for my P7M8. Just worked out that way. The leather strip sewn around the top helps keep the top open when you re-holster the handgun. I do not like retention devices on IWB holsters.

I'd call the sheriff's office down there and tell them what happened. They probably have a good idea who it is and might act with a reasonable car description and one of the perp. It's not unusual for out of state cars to get stopped by thugs. Happened to my brother many years ago in North or South Carolina. He had a gun with him and the BGs got back in their car and left.

Why don't you start a Dixon TFA chapter thread? And find a restaurant to meet at?

This may give you an idea from a chapter that has been running for a while in a relatively small place, in Morristown. Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: May 2007 meeting Reply with quote The April meeting of the Tennessee Firearms Association Lakeway Chapter will be held on uesday evening, the 15th of May, 2007 Our guest speaker will be Captain Beckner from the Morristown Police Explosive Ordinance Squad and speak on handling and storage household chemicals and reloading materials such as power and primiers. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Our meeting place is the Shoneys Family Restaurant at 1933 West Andrew Johnson Highway (Hwy 11E), Morristown TN. This restaurant is located 1/2 block east of the West Andrew Johnson highway (Hwy 11E) and Morris Blvd intersection, more or less across from the Home Depot. There is a large, highly visible sign in front along with plenty of parking space. A pre-meeting social hour is from 6 PM to 7 PM during which you may want to eat dinner. The meeting will begin promptly at 7 PM and end at 8 PM. Opportunity will be given to ask questions related to the topic. Membership is not required - gun owners, 2nd Amendment supporters, and interested public are urged to attend. For more information contact Bill Kaylor 423 586 9121/email w9dsm@charter.net or Tim Nunan 423-586-8459/email bentcreek@outdrs.net. _________________ Tim Nunan TFA/NRA Lifemember Co-host Lakeway chapter NRA-ILA EVC TN-1 GOA member How did the July meeting get canceled? You guys will be pretty much starting over in August. Groups like this grow by word of mouth, but you have to have something happening to encourage people you see to come visit and hopefully join. Groups like this die by bad policy - like canceling meetings and having no speaker. Memphis meets at Range USA and it has a barbecue place in there to eat at. Morristown meets at a Restaurant, Knoxville meets at a restaurant, Chattanooga meets at a restaurant. Does this give you guys any ideas at all?

I used to enjoy flying before it became a hassle. I still fly often, but not commercial. What I really hate are jumbo jets. I never cared much for being one of a huge herd. Head um up - move em out! Moooooooo!!!

Saints, rumor has it that Teflon makes bullets magically zoom through LE vests and turns even worthless 25 caliber rounds into cop killer bullets.