Cruel Hand Luke

Just so we are all on same page the January 12 training day is posted here . The February combo class with me and Lee Weems is going to be Feb 23 in Dayton and should be on his site soon and I will post that here too with a link for sign ups.

Look on Youtube for Ron Avery Science of the Draw.

The only way this works is to have a national registry and track who owns what. That is it. Otherwise how would anyone know who is SUPPOSED to have what and be able to enforce it if you gave or sold something to someone without doing the check ? Otherwise there is no mechanism to know if someone sold something to someone without doing a check. We need to make it known that if you support Universal background checks you are supporting universal gun registration...period. I fear at some point one monkey who has had enough is going to stand up and say "No" and others will join him all hell will break loose... (For those not tracking that "monkey" reference.... that is what Cornelius (in Escape From the Planet of the Apes (IIRC) ) said was how the Simian revolution started...one day one monkey (Ceasar) had enough of being told what to do by humans and stood up and said "NO" when ordered to do something.....

TN / GA / AL Training Group On Saturday January 12 we will hold our 1st meeting for the TN/GA/AL Regional Suarez Int Training Group for 2019! Subject : Getting Shot Sucks...Get Off the X !!! Instructor: Tier 1 Suarez Int Staff Instructor Randy Harris Location: The usual place- Phillips/Edwards Farm 763 County Rd 332 Pisgah AL 35765 Time: 9AM CENTRAL time - 3PM CENTRAL time Price: $80 - pay at class cash or check. What you need to bring: Pistol, pistol magazines and at least 150 rounds of ammo. Revolvers are welcome if you want to party like it is 1899. We will work on our pistol skills specifically getting off the X in reactive situations, retaking the initiative and counter attacking. If your skills you learned in Close Range Gunfighting have gotten a little rusty this is the tune up you need! We will also run some "man on man" drills to test skills under pressure and add a little motivation. Looking forward to seeing you there!

Yes good times! I seem to remember hitting you with a hammer fist while you were aggressively panhandling me.... And for those reading along no it was not a 100% power strike and yes he had head protection on. We wore FIST helmets for protection in the class...and even then we could ONLY hit each other with empty hands and saps NO BLACKJACKS to the head ! As I mentioned before there is a reason that blackjacks and saps are not nearly as common in police work as they once were. The likelihood of permanent injury or death from hits to the head is very real. Also when I actually left a mark on Rick's forehead in the shape of the edge of the sap THROUGH the FIST Helmet from about a 75% strike that was pretty telling of what would have happened to him WITHOUT the padding of the FIST Helmet from a 100% strike. Most folks just don't realize how much more directed impact is generated by just a few ounces of lead focused into a small area. OTOH when I hit him with just a hammer fist and he thought I had hit him with the sap that told me that I was probably generating enough impact with the hammer fist to solve most problems without needing to access a tool. Incidentally Larry Lindenman (Point Driven Training) is now teaching a similar class to the one Craig did for us and uses tape covered children's flip flops as "training saps" so that you can run the class without all the protective gear. Pretty ingenious.

We have a winner..... If the Republicans would actually follow through and DO what they run on when they have the majority then they would get better publicity here.

If that alternative is control by those who are militantly against us then I'll take the lukewarm support from our "friends"as opposed to what would be boiling opposition from our "enemies". On a national level which party tends to support more gun control and which supports less? Until there is a better alternative that is what we are stuck with. And letting a few snakes in to keep from having mice is a dangerous game to play if the snakes continue to multiply....

It sure beats the alternative...

I agree nothing good comes from this but IF it is going to happen at least the potential "penalty" of the accuser having to pay back the accused double the legal cost might stop some from doing it.

It should be that the person who filed the complaint has to pay back DOUBLE your legal fees if you go to court and get it overturned..... These things happen ( guy in Maryland ) because there is no "penalty" for false accusation or for using the police to harass someone. I'd say if you want to put this into law write into it that if it turns out that the person is found to NOT be a danger that the complainant has to pay back DOUBLE the legal bills. Otherwise there is really nothing stopping some snowflake relative or even acquaintances who don't like the fact that you own guns from causing you all kinds of hell trying to prove you are not a danger.

We had a pretty solid turnout of 9 people in spite of the ominous weather forecast. The early part of the day was..."challenging" ....from a standpoint of scoring targets .....and keeping them from blowing away. But part of training is learning and experiencing and having to adapt to adversity and while we'd all much rather shoot on a nice sunny fall or spring day we probably learn more about ourselves and our equipment when the weather is not optimal. As the day progressed the weather got better and the shooting too. We saw some pretty solid shooting from everyone. Big thanks to everyone who came out and participated and hopefully you'll get good use out of your Christmas present.....even if you just use it as a bottle opener. MERRY CHRISTMAS !

And THAT is another 100 page thread in the making...

The issue is that it is viewed as lethal force. The reason it is viewed as "less lethal" for cops is because they ostensibly have training in its use and are using it to subdue not to kill . If you hit someone in the head with a blackjack (or a sap or a baton to a lesser degree) you run a pretty fair chance of giving them a depressed skull fracture. There is a reason that very few police departments allow the use of saps and blackjacks anymore. The certification class teaches you to target areas that are less likely to cause permanent crippling injury or death. Police can use any means necessary to effect an arrest. Civilians cannot. If you refuse to comply with the officer's commands he can MAKE you comply with empty hands , taser , pepper spray, baton or even a firearm. A civilian can only use lethal force in response to lethal force. Due to his job description he does not operate under the same rules a civilian does. For the police officer the baton is just another level up from pepper spray in the use of force continuum....for a civilian it is viewed as aggravated assault unless he is responding to lethal force. A cop can hit you with a baton for punching him....a civilian is going to have a whole lot of explaining to do as to why he hit someone with a stick (aggravated assault) for punching him . I'm not saying it cannot be articulated , I'm saying it will probably have to be articulated and the answer is not just "Because he hit me"...... We can make the argument that for the average civilian going about their business the baton really serves no purpose. Police use it to subdue and take into custody individuals who do not want to be subdued and taken into custody. Civilians out in the street are not really supposed to be doing that..... And as such for a civilian , the club (sap, jack, baton) is viewed not a physical compliance tool to effect an arrest but as a lethal force tool. And if you are legally justified to use the baton you are justified to shoot them. Nobody seems to like to hear that but that is the reality of it. Full disclosure... I actually attended that same Monadnock certification class with Prag back in 2006 and have carried (and maybe used?) a baton when working security in the entertainment business back in the day. I also own about a dozen saps and jacks (Boston Leather, D3 Protection, Foster Brothers) and occasionally carry them. But the curse of being a big strong still fairly young dude is that the court system is going to view my use of a blackjack differently than Prag's use of it. In all honesty if I am justified to use the sap or jack I'm justified in using the pistol.

Well...there is that too

No worries man, it is just that on a personal level I find it extremely ironic that somehow in all the other states that allow drinking while carrying we just do not see widespread blood in the streets from crazed drunken gunfights in bars. If the Pennsylvanians of Quaker descent can somehow see their way to passing legislation approving being armed and drinking alcohol as long as you are not over the limit to drive then you'd think that the Tennesseans of Revolutionary War veteran descent might be able to come to the same conclusion.... but as of yet that is not the case. At the National Tactical Invitational in 2007 in Harrisburg PA there were probably 100 armed people drinking in the bar of the host hotel every night of the event ....which was perfectly legal under Pennsylvania law.......and even with a room full of ARMED type A personalities (many with more than one gun on them) there were no incidents at all. Here's a secret. There have ALWAYS been armed people in bars. I worked in the bar business for a few years in college. People ALREADY carried guns in bars before it was legal AT ALL and yet we do not see the streets running red from drunken gun battles over Monday Night Football at Hooters ..... or over games of pool at any number of "dive" bars throughout the state. And if they think none of those people that are drinking are carrying or that none of the people that are carrying are drinking no matter what the law says , that is just naive on the part of the legislature. As long as there have been bars there have been people carrying weapons in them...legal or not. Now.....Is it a good idea to drink a beer and carry? That is a 100 page thread for another time. Is it a good idea to be armed and go out drinking with the intention of getting drunk. ABSOLUTELY NOT...and there is really no debate on that. But then again the effects a beer or two might have on a 100 lb non drinker vs the effect it will have on a 250 lb person who drinks alcohol regularly are different. Two beers over the course of an hour might have little effect on one and have much more effect on the other. And lets be honest which is more LIKELY to cause death or injury? Driving at .05 BAC or carrying a gun at .05 BAC? Driving your car is far more common than pulling your gun out is.... Which REALLY effects more people? I didn't mean to derail the thread, my point is simply that for some reason some people in Tennessee think alcohol causes guns to go off.... Pulling the trigger is what causes guns to go off. It is either a conscious decision (good or bad) to pull the trigger or it is an accident (normally caused from needless and careless handling) when they do go off unintentionally. I doubt this case was a conscious alcohol impaired bad decision to fire the gun and was more likely careless handling due to poor choice in carry method. But again I could be wrong. But based on being around armed people (both the well trained and the woefully untrained and both the legally and illegally armed ) on a daily basis for 25 years I feel pretty comfortable that this was probably not a conscious decision and more likely careless handling that led to this incident. And careless handling due to poor carry methods are the most dangerous part of the equation......not the presence of the alcohol.....in my opinion. End Notes: For those who might not quite be tracking the reference I mention "of Quaker descent" as that Quakers are who founded Pennsylvania and "Revolutionary War veterans" are largely who founded TN as land in TN was given as grants for service in the war. Both my mother and father's families were early pioneers in Tennessee and both families had Revolutionary War veterans. In fact my father's family was here in Tennessee before TN was a state and before the USA existed....