Cruel Hand Luke

As someone who teaches the HCP class and someone who has spent a large amount of time trying to educate myself on issues of use of force, I will tell you what I tell people in class.    If you are JUSTIFIED in pulling your gun you are justified in shooting them....period. There is no level of force that is "shooting but not really trying to hit them" which is what a warning shot is. Just like there is not a level of "shooting them just a little bit"....Deadly force is deadly force. and to intentionally OR KNOWINGLY use force that you knew could be deadly IS use of deadly force.  Legally it is almost always going to be looked at as either reckless endangerment (or some similarly worded offense) or even as evidence that the one who fired it was not in fear of grave bodily injury or death to the point that they NEEDED to shoot the BG. And if the level of fear (for a reasonable person) had not risen to that level then the use of the gun is not justified. You MIGHT get lucky and not get charged...but luck is not a strategy and you are a damn fool if you want to take those kind of chances with the legal system on purpose.    The other issue is where does the bullet end up? If you fire a warning shot that strikes someone then you are in for a really rough time. Accidentally shooting someone who did not need to be shot or even accidentally shooting the guy who NEEDED to be shot is still not OK. Self defense is an affirmative act.....not an accident. Massad Ayoob talks in his lectures in class about a guy in NY who is still sitting in jail because he said he "accidentally" shot the guy that was attacking him....when it goes down on paper as an accident you cannot claim self defense. So he is in jail for accidentally shooting someone.....even though the guy was attacking him and the guy needed to be shot. So if you fire a warning shot and it actually ricochets and hits someone then you are opening doors of legal Hell that you really don't ever want opened. Warning shots are just not a good idea......    So do what you want. But there is no level of fear where it is OK to fire a warning shot. That is NOT a level of the force continuum. Deadly force is either warranted or not...and firing a gun IS DEADLY FORCE. As a civilian your force continuum  pretty much goes from verbal to pepper spray (an irritant with no long lasting effects) to physical force with hands/feet to lethal force which would include ANY tool that could cause death...that means knives, clubs, guns, etc. Because you do not get the same training that police do the civilian use of an impact weapon will almost always be viewed as either aggravated assault at worst or lawful use of deadly force at best. Just like producing a knife...that is DEADLY FORCE and there is no level that is OK with "cutting them just a little". If you employ the blade it is either aggravated assault or it will be justified use of lethal force. Firing a gun to get someone's attention and or scare them is NOT in there anywhere. Might you escape without getting charged with something like reckless endangerment if you fire a warning shot? Yes....you might very well........ but that is an awful  risky proposition. Remember there is case law in TN where someone was convicted because they DIDN'T shoot someone who was threatening them and just produced the weapon to frighten them. 

But...but...my carbine is so much cooler than a shotgun and my carbine is kind of sort of a little bit  just like the SEALs use....and it looks cool when I bump fire it at the range...and I can get so many accessories for it so I can customize it so it is the coolest one on the block......and what do you mean a shotgun still makes people stop what they are doing when you put multiple holes in multiple organs with one pull of the trigger...we all know that no REAL operator would be seen with a shotgun because they don't hold nearly enough ammo .....this thread is making me secretly question my coolness and my super cool carbine and gear.... :shrug:   Yeah, it is almost as if people think the most effective close quarter tool we have had available for the last 400 years suddenly became useless overnight with the advent of velcro and molle webbing......

Well that is good. I felt a little bad for not being there, but the Wife took me to Pigeon Forge for my birthday that weekend. 

Cool. I have already taken it too, I am just always curious to see other people's take on the material.    How many people were in the classes? I was hoping there would be a good turnout and hoping to get a good representation of TGO members.  

Unfortunately I was unable to make it to the class so thanks for the review....did you also do the shotgun class on Sunday? 

OK guys (and gals?) this one is coming up this weekend. Looks like it will be a small class so there will be lots of personal attention.    If you have been looking for a foundation building fighting rifle class then this is it. We cover the basics of marksmanship and then the basics of fighting with a rifle...not just position shooting for the sake of plinking and target shooting. You will learn the"what" and the "how" and just as important the "Why" when it comes to fighting with the rifle.    Hope to see you there......

There you go. That is a good start. In fact mag changes while watching TV is a good way to get your mag changes to where they are second nature and get you well on your way to not having to think about it. Instead you simply eject and insert the new one while focusing on the tv. As time goes on you get faster and smoother and not have to watch your hands to make it happen.    OBVIOUSLY DO NOT HAVE AMMO PRESENT.   Now, just set aside some time to work on drawing and driving the gun to the target and pressing off the shot. Which shot is the most important? The FIRST one. So we should probably work on our draw and 1 shot quite a bit.   All you need is a single target and a place where people will not be distracting you. I set up targets in my office/ man room at home and at the end of the hall way. I remove all ammo and make sure that people are not walking into the hallway while I'm doing my dry work. As little as 15 minutes a couple of nights a week will yield results. EVERYONE can spare 30 minutes a week if they choose to. 

Dry fire still works while seated......I'm just sayin'.... :cool:

This is coming up THIS WEEKEND!!!!!

I heard my name mentioned.....   Look, if you want to learn some skills for solving lethal force  interpersonal conflict without getting yelled at, belittled or made feel like you don't belong here then I've always got room for another student in class.   If you want a "boot camp" or high school lunch room experience or fraternity house hazing experience while someone tells you how bad ass they are ...then I'm NOT your guy.   I don't need to make myself feel good by trying to belittle students or to prove to anyone how bad ass I am.... I'm here to make YOU more bad ass than you were before you came to class. And that can be done without the over the top histrionics. If people are interested........they know where to find me. 

Funny how no one can explain how if Bush was supposedly so anti 2nd Amendment but yet he put ZERO effort into renewing the AWB in 2004.....it was simply allowed to go away and that was that....   Do we really think that if he REALLY wanted an AWB renewal that he would not have suggested to Tom Delay (the speaker of the house at the time) that they allow the renewal to happen and to come to a vote?   So did he just "forget" to get an AWB done on his watch? Or was he saying what he felt he had to say to get elected and allow the Republican controlled congress to do their job?   The "fix was in" on the AWB expiring and most people in the industry knew that it was NOT going to get renewed according to what Tom Delay's office was telling us in the summer of 2004. There was NO support for it from the White House and they (the speaker's office) were making sure that it did not get support in the congress......

This one is getting closer...................

ONE WEEK TO GO!!!

Dry fire is free....yet almost no one does it. 

Whether they admit it or not the majority of gun owners are just not really "gun people"....just like most hammer owners are not master builders. Most are gun owners....and that is it...gun owners....just like you might be a lawnmower owner. In fact you will actually use your lawnmower more every year than the typical gun owner uses their gun to practice. Unfortunately the majority of them view their defensive guns as magic talismans that will ward off evil with no effort required on the part of the owner. So why would they need to practice?   And that is largely the "American way" ..."You can have it faster and cheaper and requires no effort , attention or discipline and you will be just as good or better than people who have spent a lifetime learning to properly use the tools". We hear that all the time with appliances and new technology involving tools and sporting equipment. And technology is great (to a point) but you still have to know how to use it, and if it involves operating in concert with others THAT is a skill unto itself. Being able to point a gun muzzle and pull a trigger is the last 5% of the solution.....yet most people spend 95% of their training time (if they train at all...and MOST don't train at all) on that last 5%. The problem is that 95% DO NOT TRAIN AT ALL.....So it does get frustrating when all your homies talk big game but can't make an open spot in their schedule once in 6 months to get out and work on some skills that if you ever HAVE to use could save their life or the life of a loved one. It is easier to just stay home and watch the game than to get out and expose your weaknesses.....   And THAT is a big part of it. Why is it that cops don't show up on range days where the police dept supplies the ammo for FREE. Good grief....if someone gave me FREE AMMO and all I had to do was show up I'd be there early and they'd have to run me off so they could close at the end of the day. But the overwhelming majority of cops - who carry a gun for work every day and confront possible offenders everyday- are largely just not interested in getting better at operating their equipment. They look at it as an imposition on their personal time to improve their skills with a tool that if they have to use will be under life and death circumstances.....    A big part is that they don't want to have to go do something they are not good at...well how the hell do you get better if you don't practice? And the same is true for the typical gun owner.....they don't want to risk embarrassment in front of their peers so they never go do any realistic training . Besides they read stuff in gun rags all the time about "all you have to do is point and pull" or "simply racking your shotgun's action will scare off the bad guys, vampires , the IRS , and other undead ghouls." So why WOULD they go expend money, time, sweat, and hard work on learning to defend themself when the NRA magazine is full of grandmas with J frames who successfully defended themselves?     Because the NRA Armed Citizen section does not report losses...only wins. You never read about the people who get killed , crippled, or seriously injured...or about folks who shot someone who didn't need to be shot , or who shot a bystander because they missed their intended target.....and those things DO HAPPEN.The NRA magazine only prints the positive outcomes. And that is why we train. So that IF we are faced with a life threatening event we will already have a page in our mental rolodex that we can access where we have experienced something similar before and we have a course of action to follow...not try to make up something on the fly for a situation we have never seen before. We will also have a modicum of skill to operate the mechanical device (gun) without having to get the owners manual out and read it while we are being attacked. That is where practice comes in. And in the big picture it also makes us confident in our abilities and in ourselves and that carries over into all aspects of our lives.....but what do I know?

Reminder that this one is coming up in 2 weeks!

Last minute reminder!!!!!   This is coming up on Sunday

So does that mean as president he would support an AWB that would ONLY effect "urban states"?   So those in RURAL states would not be affected?

No, it is an answer for folks (departments, govt agencies, etc) who are tasked with finding a gun that is .45 diameter and still has a small enough grip so that smaller stature shooters with tiny hands (read that as mostly females) will still be able to grip and shoot the gun relatively well.   Plus the same magazine pouches that your old G22 or G17 used will be usable with the new G37 mags and you can see how a police dept or state police might look at this as a good idea....for the typical civilian....none of that same argument really applies. I know A LOT of serious gun carriers (and even more intermittent hobby gun carriers) and I do not know a single one who carries a .45GAP. I'm not saying it is a horrible thing (in fact it might be a bit of a "gamer gun" for IDPA in CDP or GSSF in the Heavy Metal division  if you don't have hands big enough for a G41) but I am saying that MOST people who really want a .45 will go with ACP due to availability and not having to deal with an "odd ball" cartridge. 

The Georgia state police, Florida Highway Patrol , South Carolina Highway Patrol,  and New York state police all use 45GAP....so I doubt that it will be going away any time soon......    Back during the ammo drought you could always find .45GAP available......probably because so few civilians actually use it so no one was hording it. 

Just a quick reminder .....this is coming up Sunday! This will be a chance to work on your pistol skills in conditions we might face either on the street or in our homes or even in a public place during an active shooter incident. Hits on bystanders are not good for you (or them) so we will work on placing precise hits on the BG without placing accidental hits on the bystanders.....looking forward to seeing you there!

Just a week to go on this class !

Just a heads up on an excellent training opportunity coming up in middle Tennessee in November. My friend Tom Givens will be offering two 1 day classes in the Nashville/ Franklin area on Nov 7 and 8.      Defensive Revolver, One Day, Saturday, November 7, 2015 Some people choose to carry a revolver as their primary sidearm. Many, many more (myself included) carry a small revolver daily as a back-up gun (BUG). There are a lot of tricks to using a revolver well, and that information is becoming less commonly known as the semi-auto now dominates the self-defense arena. If you carry a revolver, you need this course.   Students will need at least one revolver, a belt holster, at least one speedloader, and 500 rounds of ammunition. Any ammunition is acceptable, including wadcutters, round nosed lead, or jacketed ammo. Students are encouraged to bring a medium sized revolver, such as a Smith & Wesson Model 10, 15, 19, 64, 66 etc, Ruger Security Six or GP-100, or similar and a second, smaller revolver, such as a Smith Model 442, 642, Chief Special, Colt Cobra, etc. This is not mandatory—you may show up with just one revolver. However, if you have two, you can shoot both. If you bring a small BUG revolver, bring a pocket holster, ankle holster, and belt holster for it, so you can get some practice with each carry mode. We will have a few extra revolvers and holsters on hand to loan. Topics covered include:    Fast, but accurate double-action shooting    Rapid reloading techniques, with various reloading devices    Carry methods for fast concealed carry applications    Transition to Back-Up Guns    Remedial action in the event of a malfunction.   Tuition is $225. Advance registration is required. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/defensive-revolver-course-1-day-tennessee-tickets-17106965394     Defensive Shotgun, One Day, Sunday, November 8, 2015 Franklin, TN, 9am-6pm Many people keep a shotgun at home in case of home invasion, or in their business in case of a hold-up. Many shotgun owners have some experience with the weapon in its bird hunting or clay bird sports context, but few understand its true potential and limitations as a defensive weapon. Properly set up and properly used, the shotgun is a truly formidable weapon. In its defensive role it is set up and operated quite differently than in its sporting application. This course includes topics such as: *Shotgun History and Development * Shotgun Selection  * Types & Mechanical Operation  * Loading and Reloading Techniques  * Modifications and Accessories * Ammunition Selection and Capabilities * Defensive Shooting Techniques *Safe Storage for Immediate Use This course consists of a full day of training, from 9:00 am to 6:00pm. Students will need a shotgun with a barrel length of 22 inches or less, pump or semi-automatic. A sling and an on-board ammunition carrier (butt cuff or side-saddle) are optional. We will have some loaner guns available for those who do not yet own a suitable shotgun. You will need 150 rounds of birdshot, 50 rounds of buckshot, and 10 slugs. Cost is $225 and advance registration is required. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/defensive-shotgun-1-day-tennessee-tickets-17107069706

The funny (or not) thing is that there are a lot of gun owners that oppose any new gun legislation that , beat their chest and say "from my cold dead hands" that  will STILL vote for her because she is the Democrat candidate and even though she is 100% against their way of life they will vote for her because they are multi generational democrats and she is who their union will tell them to vote for......

I was an early adopter of the caliber and carried a Glock in .357 Sig for a couple of years. The recoil in the full size guns is not bad...the muzzle blast in the sub compacts is deafening.... especially indoors. The biggest negative is probably the price of ammo and the long term wear on guns. The New Mexico State Police adopted the Glock 31 in the late 90s (about 98 to 99) and were looking for a new gun inside of 5 years. The Secret Service has been using it for almost 20 years now, but even they complain about the wear and tear on the guns (Sig 229) from the higher pressure round. I eventually switched to 9mm +p as my EDC and have not looked back. I still have the .357s but I rarely carry them.    The reason I switched is because I am not as concerned with shooting through auto body as the Secret Service or the THP (Tennessee Highway Patrol) is. The extra energy will allow for better penetration of hard objects like auto body but fortunately I'm not tasked with pulling over people who don't want to be pulled over.... And I'm just not convinced (due to the realities of physics) that a difference of 100 lbs of energy matters much when a person is hit with it.....especially when an adult male who knows how to throw a punch with their body weight behind it  can punch you with twice the energy of any duty handgun round....  now when we compare rifle rounds (1500 to 3000 lbs of energy)to pistol rounds it makes a difference...but comparing 400 lbs to 500 lbs....is like arguing who hits harder...an 11 year old or a 12 year old.    As to bullet setback......that can be a disaster when you take a 40,000 PSI round and jam the bullet back in the case and up the pressure to over 50,000....CCI discontinued their Blazer Aluminum case .357 Sig because of that. You can't crimp aluminum as tight as brass and they had issues with bullet setback.