JayC

Be happy to...   First, the great and wonderful gunfacts.info - which has lots of good stats on why citizens should be allowed to own and carry firearms:   http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.2/gun-facts-6-2-screen.pdf   Look on page 19.   This comes from a paper called "Shall Issue" The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws - http://www.rkba.org/research/cramer/shall-issue.html   It's written by two authors...   1. Dave Kopel a widely respected Gun Rights attorney - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Kopel Dave is the lead attorney against the Colorado gun control measures signed into law by Hickenlooper in 2010 making it's way to SCOTUS.   2. Clayton Cramer an American historian and software engineer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Cramer His work has was cited by SCOTUS in a couple of little know 2nd amendment cases, DC v Heller and McDonald v Chicago.   These men are noted researches and scholars on gun laws, and 2nd amendment history....  Only better resource out there maybe John Lott.   So lets look at there work... the section we're interested in:     This is a peer reviewed paper, which references a peer reviewed study by Silver & Kates - I've not been able to ever find a copy of their study online.   I think the facts speak for themselves ;)    

The only charges we've seen documented involve courtrooms and airports with one single exception...   A politician in Williamson County was charged for carrying into a school administrative building to attend an official meeting she was part of...  All indications are the charges are 'colored' by local politics.   We've heard rumors of other cases brought including the one mentioned about in Memphis, but the documentation on these cases (via court records or media reports) are non-existent.    I don't think anybody here would suggest breaking the law... although many of us have mistakenly and without knowledge walked passed signs or into gray areas...  for example, exactly which sidewalks in the Vandy area of town would be considered 'school property' and which ones public?  Does a hospital become 'school property' if a resident or medical student is in the hospital?  Does that just include the building they're in, or the entire hospital campus?  What if it's a visiting professor from the local medical college giving a lecture, but there are no medical students involved?   As you can see there are a lot of gray areas in TN firearm laws, ones I hope over the coming years we can work to clear up.   I think the reason you don't see more people charged, is because the vast majority of HCP holders are reasonable law abiding citizens, they don't intend to carry where they're not supposed to, and when asked by the owner, or law enforcement to leave they comply, therefore defusing the situation without the need of charges.   But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't work long and hard to reduce the number of areas law abiding citizens can't carry in...  because in reality restrictions on HCP don't reduce crime one bit...  If you feel comfortable with a police officer being armed at a location, you should feel more comfortable with your average HCP holder being armed there as well...  Stats just don't lie, law abiding citizens are convicted of felonies at a fraction of the rate of police officers, judges, politicians...  and are 5 times less likely to kill an innocent person in a justified shooting.    

My understanding is that map was made by a third party, not Google and was taken down because it wasn't accurate.   Otherwise I may well have to move, since I basically live at Morton Mill and Old Hickory ;)    

What map?  I've not seen anything official from Google yet.    

Except everywhere else on the planet bandwidth prices are going down...   Comcast can buy 1 Mbps of bandwidth for 1/10th what it cost them 4 years ago.... You and I can buy bandwidth for a fraction of the cost....  I can get 200 Mbits (up and down) in a datacenter for $100 a month... Comcast can buy it even cheaper...  why is it my monthly bill is $100+ for 50 Mbits down and 10 Mbits up?   There is a reason Comcast is making record profits on the Internet business.... 50% profit margins don't happen for years in a row in a free market.    

Just have the NRA drop their score to F and watch how quick they're willing to pass the bills.  A republican with an F NRA rating is a deadman walking in the next election.  

Sounds like we need a TGO 'reporter' to go down to every meeting that has a firearms bill in front of it, and record the entire meeting ;)

Get somebody to challenge Harwell in the primary from the hard right...  Don't have to win the seat, just have to wound her bad enough we loose the seat to the democrats...  Start going to her town hall meetings and asking her pointed question wouldn't hurt either.   The pro-2nd amendment community needs to take a scorched earth stance on this situation, if you're not with us on every vote, we might as well replace you with a democrat.  

The more time F-troop spends without a director, and in disarray the better...  Less harm they can do...  Let this position sit open for another 5 years, makes no difference to me.

You and I as buyers might or might not have standing, often the TICS fee you and I are charged is a pass-thru fee from the FFL, but at the end of the day the FFL is the one who writes a check to TDOS, not you or I...     I'm not a lawyer, so my understanding is the state would attempt to use the fact we don't pay the fee directly to the state, to say we don't have standing to object to the fee in the first place.  Even though logic would dictate the fee clearly impacts the end buyer.  Again, an attorney here might well be able to better explain the theory behind standing and if they think an end buyer would have standing to challenge TICS or if it would require an FFL to challenge it.   Ammo tax probably doesn't require an FFL to have standing since it's a special tax stamp included in the purchase...  but again IANAL.   I agree with current law is poorly written and doesn't meet the basic understanding of 'preventing crime' as written in our State Constitution, but I think challenging those provisions of the law would be a lot harder to do...   IMHO it's easier to focus on laws which clearly don't regulate the wearing of arms, which no sane person can say that TICS, and the ammo tax are, and therefore are outside the scope of the power invested in the legislature by the state constitution.  You'd also be able to tackle the Federal Constitutional arguments in the same case, which in theory would allow you to appeal to the federal courts...   Challenging these laws even if we don't win, would put pressure on the legislature to make changes...  if a TN or Federal court rules something is legal it will tend to upset a lot of people...  even more so when they realize they pay these special hidden taxes and people in other states don't...  Even if the legislators don't fix TICS or the ammo tax, they might feel pressure to allow more pro firearm bills to pass in the legislature so they don't appear soft on pro-2nd amendment support.    

If you want to sue and I think that is a great idea...  hit them where it hurts in the pocket book.   The 2 most likely laws to get struck down either at the state level or federally are TICS and the ammo tax.  Both of which generate millions of dollars each year for the state...   Under the TN state Constitution the state Legislature is only allowed to regulate the wearing of firearms...  Regulating the purchasing of firearms via a state run agency that charges residents a special tax to purchase a firearm is clearly outside the scope of the state constitution.  To get standing you'd likely need a FFL which has had to pay the tax, or an FFL that can show they lost business or spent extra resources on state paperwork.     The same tact *might* work on the federal level with this one, since NICS does a good enough job for most states, and is free to all FFL's and buyers, TN would have to show while they need a extra step in the process, and the extra cost...  Since the false positive rate on TICS is more than twice as high as NICS they'd have a very hard time defending TICS.   Also, the special ammo tax is likely also unconstitutional at both the state and federal level...  getting standing here is easier, since it directly impacts anybody who has purchased ammo...  since ownership of ammo is a right under the 2nd Amendment, then the state would have a high burden to prove why it charges a special tax for it over and above the normal state sales tax.  On the federal level there are likely a number of cases having to do with the 1st Amendment that would toss a monkey wrench on this one, such as Leathers vs Medlock 1991 and Arkansas Writers Project vs Ragland 1987 to name two.   Going after the money is the way to go...  another idea that would work...  do a public records request for every expense at TDOS involving the HCP department... and then filing suit to block any expenses not authorized under state law.  TDOS is prohibited from spending HCP funds on anything not directly related to HCP permit applications...  my bet is there are a bunch of salaries in there and other expenses in their budget that could be legally challenged in court.   Also, TICS is likely violating state law having to do with records storage of firearm purchases...    These last 2 would be more headache suits... maybe you just do public records requests and start publishing the information to shame them and give them a black eye...  but I'd also target every legislator who voted against a firearm bill...  go in and pull all their public records and publish anything that might cause them problems...  pull email public records between TDOS and any state legislators office for the last 4 years and publish every one of them online for everybody to see.   Might not hurt if somebody like the TFA were armed with such information in meetings with legislators.   We can do a lot to make noise...  unlike most southern states where their firearms groups don't take no for an answer, we seem to.  

I'm not saying there aren't good firearms instructors out there...  and that getting firearms training isn't a good idea.   Only that the current system is corporate welfare for ranges and instructors, and does little or nothing to make TN safer.  I'm all for keeping the current system in place for those who want a permit to carry out of state.... but we should completely do away with the requirement to get a permit to carry if you can legal own the firearm.  

Harwell is the weak link...  She is ripe for being put out of a job, it wouldn't be too hard to successfully challenge her the primary by going hard right, but we'd loose the seat in the general election. But honestly I think it would be worth loosing the seat.  

Just remember, it's a lot worse than just a school bus of students showing up...  You at least can notice them and do something...  Here are some worse/harder to spot examples...   1. Teacher 'working lunch' in the back room of a restaurant 2. University club/sports team members stopping while driving back in a private coach bus 3. And by far my favorite, high school or college group showing up at the local range  :screwy:   All of these are examples of 'use' of property under the current AG's opinion letter and could result in an otherwise law abiding citizen getting charged with a felony.    

Exactly how many people fail the HCP class?  I'll give you a hint, way less than 1%.  So what does it mean when 99+% of the class passes, that nothing is being taught that matters.   The HCP class is nothing but corporate welfare for ranges and instructors.  We're surrounded by states that allow unlicensed open carry and none of those states seem to be having problems with it, what makes TN so special we need a license to openly carry a gun?    

There is only 1 thing the TN legislature could do to prevent enforcement of gun laws...  make it a crime for any employee of the state or any subdivision of the stat to provide any material support or information to federal law enforcement officers involved in said enforcement and prohibit any said employees from enforcing federal firearms laws period.  Make it a stiff crime, like a 5 year felony.   That would stop all federal gun laws in TN in short order, because the feds don't have the man power to do all of this themselves.

I'm voting joke...  

39-17-1351r1 States that any permit from another state shall be treated as if it was issued by the state of TN.  I don't think it would create a double standard.      

I think it would do just that...  LE should assume that all items you own are legally unless they have specific cause to believe otherwise...  This change would do just that...  Much like seeing a loaded firearm in a vehicle now, the police must assume the firearm is legal unless they have PC to believe otherwise.   Also, there is a little loophole in the current law involving businesses, which *might* also impact NFA Trusts under the current law...  This change would fix that IMHO.  

I'd suggest doing whatever you need to do to stay alive and not end up in the hospital...  As Chip said, reasonable changes as the wind blows, and the exact circumstance of the situation will color the outcome a lot.   But it's probably better to be alive, and end up with a charge than it is to be in the hospital or worse...  The fact is even if you get charged, you'll have an opportunity to present the facts of your situation, hopefully before being officially charged, and for sure in court.   Chip knows better but I imagine if it's even remotely a 'close' call, being a former police officer, and the medical problems you describe, the DA is going to be inclined to not press the issue.

And the shareholders are free to vote down this or any other crazy idea...  but if they follow the bylaws they should be allowed to bring the motion to the floor.   And you're right I didn't read the bylaws, but I did read the lower courts ruling, and it's pretty clear WalMart management is on the wrong side of the law here.  

Shareholders are allowed to do all of these things as long as they follow the bylaws...   If you owned a minority share in a business shouldn't you be able to suggest to the other owners they change business practices?  Even if the change is something they've been doing for years or decades?   The Church is a minority owner in the company, and they have followed all the rules set by the companies bylaws to place an item of the shareholders meeting for a vote.  I think what they're asking for is stupid, and if I owned any WalMart stock I'd vote against it...   But they are within their rights, and WalMart is trying to violate it's own bylaws to prevent the vote from happening.  

I hate to say it, but the Church is in the right here...  They are a shareholder, and followed all the rules laid out in the bylaws to submit a proposal to a vote by all share holders, WalMart is violating it's bylaws trying to keep this from coming to a vote.   This has virtually nothing to do with guns, except WalMart doesn't want the bad PR they will receive either way this vote goes.  It's a simple corporate governance issue, and WalMart is in the wrong IMHO.

Maybe the fee, but the other parts of TICS regulate the purchasing, ownership and possession of firearms which clearly appears to be outside the scope of our state Constitution for the legislature to regulate.  I'd say the 'fee' is blatantly unconstitutional as well... but that is just my opinion on the matter.   It's very likely that our ammo tax is also unconstitutional under both the state and federal constitution as well.  

I agree, I can't image how TICS itself hasn't been tested in court yet...  I don't see how it would survive a constitutional test under the state constitution.