Mark@Sea

The Washington Post is running some interesting quotes by Fred Thompson. On the failed immigration bill in Congress: "No matter how much lipstick Washington tries to slap onto this legislative pig, it's not going to win any beauty contests. We should scrap this 'comprehensive' immigration bill and the whole debate until the government can show the American people that we have secured the borders -- or at least made great headway." On efforts to ban legal guns on college campuses after the Virginia Tech shootings: "Many other universities have been swayed by an anti-gun, anti-self defense ideology. I respect their right to hold those views, but I challenge their decision to deny Americans the right to protect themselves on their campuses -- and then proudly advertise that fact to any and all." On concerns about global warming: "It seems scientists have noticed recently that quite a few planets in our solar system seem to be heating up a bit, including Pluto. This has led some people, not necessarily scientists, to wonder if Mars and Jupiter, non-signatories to the Kyoto Treaty, are actually inhabited by alien SUV-driving industrialists who run their air-conditioning at 60 degrees and refuse to recycle." On the Palestinian crisis: "Let me ask you a hypothetical question. What do you think America would do if Canadian soldiers were firing dozens of missiles every day into Buffalo, N.Y.? What do you think our response would be if Mexican troops for two years had launched daily rocket attacks on San Diego ? and bragged about it? I can tell you, our response would look nothing like Israel's restrained and pinpoint reactions to daily missile attacks from Gaza."

Joe Sent you a PM asking for a quote, did you get it? Thanks Mark

DaveTN, I agree with you, I think. The second recognizes a pre-existing right, it does not grant it. I think of it as a tripwire.

Ever heard of a letter of marque? A warship is definitely not a man-portable weapon system. Yet they existed, in private hands, during the revolutionary war. Field pieces, cannon - were in private hands. Can you imagine a shotgun with a 3 inch bore? Somebody want to trot out the old 'they meant flintlocks' line again? Certainly, from their invention in the late 1800's up until the revenuers found themselves looking for a job in '32, machine guns were not regulated. "And every other terrible implement of the soldier" The Bill of Rights recognizes (not 'grants') certain pre-existing rights as the hallmarks of a free people. They were enumerated as a check against the power of the government, a 'no trespassing' sign writ large. Out of date? Tell that to the 200 million people disarmed, then murdered by their own governments in the last century.

Hero Gear is on the right track with the CZ - those are some fine shooting irons. .223 is just a tad light, although with a bolt action you can cycle stuff that ARs will choke on. A couple of oddball thoughts for you.... A Swede Mauser in 6.5x55 - bolt action. Light weight, low recoil, excellent accuracy. Or, if you know the right people, an FAL in 260 Remington. Not super cheap, and stock dimensions are the same, but the round is smaller...

HEADS UP - a source tells me that all US ammo manufacturers plan a 25 to 35% price increase as of 1 August.

Legal, sure. Cheap, too.... Arsenal re-worked will run you $80 or less.

Got this from the "Of Arms and the Law" blog A comparison of the AK versus the AR-15 versus the Moisin Nagant AK: It works though you have never cleaned it -- ever. AR: You have $9 per ounce special non-detergent synthetic Teflon infused oil for cleaning. MN: It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945. Maybe. AK: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from inside. AR: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from 600 meters. MN: You can hit the farm from two counties over. AK: Cheap magazines are fun to buy. AR: Cheap magazines melt. MN: What's a magazine? AK: Your safety can be heard from 300 meters away. AR: You can silently flip off the safety with your finger on the trigger. MN: What's a safety? AK: Your rifle comes with a cheap nylon sling. AR: Your rifle has a 9 point stealth tactical suspension system. MN: Your rifle has four dog collars tied end-to-end. AK: Your bayonet makes a good wire cutter. AR: Your bayonet is actually a pretty good steak knife. MN: Your bayonet is longer than your leg. AK: You can put a .30" hole through 12" of oak, if you can ever hit it. AR: You can put one hole in a paper target at 100 meters with 30 rounds. MN: You can knock down everyone else's target with the shock wave of your bullet going downrange. AK: When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club. AR: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great wiffle bat. MN: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood. AK: Recoil is manageable, even fun. AR: What's recoil? MN: Recoil is often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot. AK: Your sight adjustment goes to "10", and you've never bothered moving it. AR: Your sight adjustment is incremented in fractions of minute of angle. MN: Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you've actually tried it. AK: Your rifle can be used by any two bit nation's most illiterate conscripts to fight elite forces worldwide. AR: Your rifle is used by elite forces worldwide to fight two bit nations' most illiterate conscripts. MN: Your rifle has fought against itself and won every time. AK: Your rifle won some revolutions. AR: Your rifle won the Cold War. MN: Your rifle won a pole vault event. AK: You paid $350. AR: You paid $900. MN: You paid $59.95. AK: You buy cheap ammo by the case. AR: You lovingly reload precision crafted rounds one by one. MN: You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and it works just fine. AK: You can intimidate your foe when you fix bayonet. AR: Your can give your foe a good laugh when you fix your bayonet. MN: You can bayonet your foe on the other side of the river without leaving the comfort of your hole. AK: Service life, 50 years. AR: Service life, 40 years. MN: Service life, 100 years, and counting. AK: It's easier to buy a new rifle when you want to change cartridge sizes. AR: You can change cartridge sizes with the push of a couple of pins and a new upper. MN: You believe no real man would dare risk the ridicule of his friends by suggesting there is anything but 7.62x54R. AK: You can repair your rifle with a big hammer and a swift kick. AR: You can repair your rifle by taking it to a certified gunsmith and it's under warranty! MN: If your rifle breaks, you can buy a new one. AK: You consider it a badge of honor when you get your handguards to burst into flames. AR: You consider it a badge of honor when you shoot a sub-MOA 5 shot group. MN: You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds without the aid of a 2x4. AK: After a long day the range you relax by watching "Red Dawn". AR: After a long day at the range you relax by watching "Blackhawk Down". MN: After a long day at the range you relax by visiting the chiropractor. AK: You can accessorize you rifle with a new muzzle brake or a nice stock set. AR: Your rifle's accessories are eight times more valuable than your rifle. MN: Your rifle's accessory is a small tin can with a funny lid, but it's buried under an apartment building somewhere in Budapest. AK: Your rifle's finish is varnish and paint. AR: Your rifle's finish is Teflon and high tech polymers. MN: Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails. AK: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Mikhail Kalashnikov. AR: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Eugene Stoner. MN: You're not sure there WERE cameras to photograph Sergei Mosin. AK: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to hold your rifle over your head and shout "Wolverines!" AR: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to clear your house, slicing the pie from room to room. MN: Late at night, you sometimes have to fight the urge to dig a fighting trench in the yard to sleep in.

Can anyone recommend a shop around Kingsport? I've enjoyed shopping at Coal Creek Armory in Knoxville, but it is a bit of a drive. The first time I needed a transfer (I was at sea and wanted to get my wife a special Christmas gift) it was sourced by an out-of-state firearms engraver (who charged full MSRP, by the way). The options were such that the piece was a special order from the manufacturer, and then of course there was the engraving. The local shop charged my wife $50 + background + sales tax on the total which included the engraving, and original price of the firearm (I'd paid the engraver for firearm and engraving services via check, which he kindly noted on the receipt he sent with the pistol). Ouch. Thats' a bit more than I'm willing to pay for a transfer on an item the shop doesn't carry, and couldn't get from their distributor anyway. At least they were willing to allow my wife to pick it up, even though I'd paid the engraver. Possibly because her name was on it? The second time (different shop, of course), I bought my wife a used shotgun from an individual in NC (from an online ad). This particular coach gun had been slicked up by a well-known SASS gunsmith with a good reputation, and it's "pretty". The shop didn't charge sales tax, $25 for the transfer fee, but refused to allow my wife to pick it up. It sat in the shop until I came back from sea to pick it up. Maybe I should have had the seller scratch her name in the stock with a nail or something. I'm willing to pay $25 for a transfer. More than that seems a bit ridiculous for 5 minutes or less of record-keeping. I'm not asking the shop to transfer something that they already have in stock, or are able to order from their distributor, so a punitive transfer fee isn't a factor in the buying decision - just the decision of what shops will get my future trade. I would prefer to shop locally, so that when I need it quick, the local shop will be there. Please note: 'Prefer' doesn't extend to "Please give me a swift kick in the cans and expect me to enjoy it". Reasonable (not 'cheap', just reasonable) cost and customer service. If possible, a little closer to home than Knoxville.

That pretty much covers the job requirements Met a guy once, he carried a full-size 1911A1 as his Backup. Very well concealed, too. OTOH, I'm fairly sure he could carry his motorcycle home under one arm. Reefbluecoupe, if you have a spare Gov't model for swap, I have a mint SA compact...

Rabbi, I think we're on the same page. FWIW, I've had very good results with Golden Saber and truncated cone flatnose. Spent years and money, and ruined a couple of good pistols learning to leave it the heck alone. Quality manufacture, materials, and fitting appeal to me. I understand you're a revolver guy, I'd guess you have or had older S&W's, and know what I mean. It may be to my disadvantage that blow-molded plastic and miscellaneous toaster parts don't convey the perception of quality to me. It works for others, and thats' fine by me. Hey, some people like rap music. The P220 is a fine pistol, hope you find one that suits you!

It's been my experience that the four most common causes of a 1911 malfunctioning are (in order of probability) Bad magazines Customization - esp. 'tightening' the gun to get bullseye groups. Piss-poor manufacture Worn out The lube issue presents a problem usually when the gun is over-lubed, or not lubed at all. Someone on another forum is currently testing a new lube (actually it was made for aircraft applications) that holds a lot of promise... The 1911 was designed as a service sidearm. It wasn't designed to be a target pistol, a competition toy for unrealistic 'games', or a test platform for the dozens or hundreds of modifications that the "Wile-E Coyote" school of gunsmithing graduates have subjected it to over the years. Somehow, though, it keeps plugging along. The design works for me, but it takes all kinds, I guess. I personally don't have any need or desire for a plastic fantastic, but maybe I'm just old-fashioned. Heck, I even have a few wheel guns. Now what I want is guns with wheels!

Thanks Chief, Wish I could retire from the sea. Know anyone in NE TN that needs a Comm/Radar tech/operator with a clearance?

Sounds good, Mike Hope to be home in November....

It figures - I picked door # 3. The at-home ready shotgun is an external hammer double barrel coach gun. No long-term stress on springs, etc. Safely stored for long periods of time with rounds in the chamber (and cotton balls at the loud end). Very user-friendly in stressful conditions. No really-identifiable warning noises, a plus for me; while racking a shotgun might tell an intruder he's just made a big mistake, it also says "Here I am!" - your mileage may vary. That said, in the pump vs auto debate, for mechanical reliability and stress reaction I would prefer a pump gun.

Hmmm..... What about a double barrel coach gun and a shoulder bag of slugs in order to comply with the law? I'd been thinking rifle, but at ranges from 50 to 150 yards, would a slug gun do the job? Seems to me that a pump gun would be no faster to load than a lever rifle... Unfortunate, that - a '97 riot gun with a 17 inch bayonet inspires amazing cooperation... Now, if there is a 'loaded magazines' restriction, it would certainly not apply to a permit holder, correct? So, any one of several pistol-caliber semi-auto carbines that use a pistol magazine would be a way to get around the restriction. This topic is a (semi) hypothetical question, based on the theory that a handgun is used so that/until you can get a long gun. Practical considerations would include safety, legality, practicality (maintenance requirements, etc.). I had thought that a lever gun might avoid the 'evil black rifle' syndrome so prevalent with todays' sheep - err, citizens. On the other hand, I have an M1A Scout that might fill the bill. I really don't want to delegate either of my (really nice) CMP Garands to the role.

Guess some checking into the legality would be a good idea... An SKS would be acceptable, but a model 1892 lever action in 44 Mag might do the trick as well...

1 folding table, 1 picnic table available onsite (downside - you have to relocate the picnic table from its' current location, but don't have to put it back afterward). I'm willing to buy another picnic table, but someone will have to pick it up / assemble onsite. Target frames - I'll arrange for the materials. 4 frames enough? As noted, campstove(s) available onsite. A cookout is fine, no worries.

Don't really pay much heed to Big Al's Globaloney... Thanks, Joe - I haven't been seasick for years (One really bad storm in the north atlantic in the mid-80's we were all heaving for 3 or 4 days, haven't been in anything that bad since.) Just homesick. Thanks for the kind words, all...

Thanks Boomhower. Hope you folks had a good time! Guess I should look at building some target frames next time I'm home.

I'm actually considering something along the lines of a carbine-length lever gun, in .357 or larger. It wouldn't garner the attention the AK would if it were inadvertently exposed to the rabidly fearful - while, say, fixing a flat tire. I've heard arguments against a pistol caliber because of range limitations - apparently some people never heard of Elmer Keith - but I don't consider it a problem for the intended role.

Anyone want to bring burgers/dogs/fixins? Betcha I know where a campstove and etcetera could be found. You'd still need to meet somewhere, for the benefit of the directionally challenged - that isn't a dig, my wonderful wife can't find her way out of a closet, sometimes.

Wanted - suggestions for a compact rifle for trunk/back of the truck seat duty. Should be low maintenance, dependable, hard worker (some caliber larger than .22x), and cost $500 or less. No AR's need apply. Yes, I already considered the M1 Carbine, but it doesn't quite fit the bill.

Hello all, My younger brother has been pestering me about joining the forum. Home is East Tennessee - Tri-Cities area. Unfortunately, I'm not there much. I spend about 10 months of the year shipboard for Military Sealift Command. Aside from shooting, I have a fairly harmless hobby collecting older Coleman lanterns, stoves and lamps. Can't think of anything else to say....

No carry, no cash. Placing your faith in statistics is fine - until you end up as one.