Dolomite_supafly

The recipe I posted above, 147 @ 1200+fps using 3N38, is not a +P load. Most loads today are watered down compared to 20-30 years ago. We can blame our litigious society for that. I was shooting some factory loads the other day and they were very underpowered, so much so I was able to see the bullets reflect the sun in flight. Now that does happen with other calibers, 45ACP, but never 9mm. I would be willing to bet if you compared load data between a old manual that is 20+ years old to a modern one you will see what I am talking about. Dolomite

Thanks but I am not looking for any fortune or fame with what I do. I just want to pass on anything helpful to others. I haven't done any before/after testing when polishing a barrel so this will interesting to me as well because I have Flitzed several guns of mine for various reasons. Dolomite

Thanks for the info. I too will be buying a bunch of these for my carry guns. It is as close to my own loads as I can get. Dolomite

I know the reason why, which is to get the heaviest bullet you can yet keep that bullet subsonic for suppressor use. But why not make ammunition using the same bullet but with more velocity and subsequently more energy? I happened upon a recipe using Vihtavouri powder that pushes a 147 grain bullet to 1200+ fps out of a pistol (6.9 grains of 3N38). I loaded some ammo using the 147 grain Gold Dot to try out. I have fired a lot of this load out of a Glock as well as a rifle and never seen any pressure issues at all, not even any "smileys" with the Glock. It definitely has abit more of a kick to it. 9mm Load Data I would love to use this for self defense but I don't want the stigma of using handloads in a self defense situation because of all the legal ramifications. This might also help with intregrally suppressed guns like the MP5. If you fire subsonic ammunition out of a MP5, which is designed to keep supersonic ammo below the speed of sound, you wind up with a projectile that is well below the speed of sound. I read a post a while back in which a guy was hit in the forehead with a 147 grain bullet fired from a MP5 but the bullet never entered the skull. They determined it was because the already subsonic rounds were fired from the integrally supressed MP5 reducing the velocity even more. The bullet was so slow that it didn't have enough energy to enter the skull. It knocked the guy out but he later made a full recovery. Dolomite

AD/ND and that is gonna hurt even if the bullet doesn't strike anything. Personally I believe there are a lot better choices. As it stands right now I carry, and have carried for a long time, a full size gun on my hip. If it gets noticed I am not worried about it. It also seems like it would be easier and quicker to draw from another location. Made it live: Smartcarry Dolomite

Look one post above mine. As well as a few other posts above that. I appreciate the suggestion. Dolomite

I put about 100 more down the tube including what is going to be my temporary carry ammo. After that I spent about an hour Flitzing the bore. It is a lot smoother and all the scratches on the lands are pretty much gone. The ones in the grooves are almost gone but still visible. I'll take pictures in a few days and post them as well. This was on top of about 150 earlier today while I was practicing some drills. So now I have about 450 rounds thru the gun in two days. What led me to Flitz the bore is I chrono'd the defense loads. I was only able to locate some Hornady FTX 115 grain ammo on the short notice I was needing it. They are supposed to be 1140 fps and in a 4 in Glock they still manage ~1100 fps yet in the 5.25" Taurus they only managed 1081 fps AVG. Because of this I suspect the rough bore might be causing some issues. When I get another chance I will chrono the same ammo thru the new and improved barrel to see what, if any, improvements it made. With the smoother bore I will be a lot more comfortable shooting cast now as well. Dolomite

150 more trouble free rounds down the tube bringing the total to 350. I will fire a few boxes of carry ammo then start the carrying it. Dolomite

It was bought new. I called Taurus and they said it is normal to have what appears to be scratches on the lands and grooves as long as thet go with the twist, which mine do. So at any rate I guess this is normal so I am a bit more relieved. I have lapped plenty of barrels before, just not any pistol barrels. I will try Flitzing it first before I go crazy with any other methods. I am going to shoot some different ammo to see if it holds any better of groups than with the Federal 115 grain FMJ's. They would shoot OK but not great like everyone claims these pistols are capable of. In the end as long as it will go bang every time and hold minute of person at 10 yards I will be happy as this is destine to be a carry gun. I know it is a big gun but honestly I would rather have a big gun with plenty of rounds avaialbe than a tiny gun that has few rounds. I am currently carrying a compact 1911 that has 6+1 and that isn't enough for my liking. Thanks Guys Dolomite

It does aim very nicely. I just spent about 45 minutes practicing my draw with it and a 1911 compact. For me both point to the same point which is nice. With my Glock I was always low. The draw times are similar enough that it is a wash. Also, the cocked and locked motion is very close as well. One thing I do like about the 24/7 is it isn't as grip sensitive as the 1911. I don't want to pin the grip safety on the 1911. I still need to do a ton of shooting to get comfortable enough to carry the 24/7. Dolomite

Ok, makes me feel a little better. With the bore being that rough I guess shooting cast is out of the question. I does take a ton of scrubbing to get the patches to come out even remotely clean. Thanks Dolomite

I can say you will get more comfortable, if that is the right word, with stressful situations when you experience more and more of them. I have been thru a few and the first few times were a bit rough on me but now I think I handle it a lot better. My dump rarely occurs until after everything is over and done with. After the dump though I just want to sleep for a week but other than that I am fine. No one really knows how they will react until they are faced with that particular situation and there are other outside factors that can change how you react. Sickness, stressors, fear of the unknown all contribute to how you will react. I have seen people who would normally be the picture of calm under stress loose it. I have also seen the opposite where people who normally over react stay relatively calm. Maturity, as in life experiences and not age, also help out a lot. Some of our 18 or 19 year old soldiers are more mature than people 2 or 3 times their age because of what they have experienced. I try to run scenarios thru my head constantly and try to always have a plan and then a backup plan. I think this helps me keep the stress of the situation down. Also, I am very aware of my surroundings and even my friends comment by saying I am a very cautious person. I keep my head on a swivel at all times to try to anticipate problems so I don't get surprized. I never want to fight but I will if I feel that lives are in danger, given the opportunity I will avoid conflict every time if I can do it safely. I will not go anywhere without being armed, not even the mailbox. Mostly because I have had a relative leave his house twice now with intentions of killing my family and I. The most recent in October of last year. He has recently stepped up his threats as he has become more erratic because of his illegal drug use. Dolomite

Let me say that this is my first Taurus. Previously I have owned Glock and various 1911's. I shoot a lot, generally 3-5 days a week at my home range. It is setup for shooting 25 yards and 50 yards. I shoot mostly pistol at home and would consider myself a decent shot. I recently bought a 24/7 OSS DS in 9mm. After a few problems I finally got everything resolved with this new pistol(It was missing the front sight). It took 2 weeks of waiting before I decided to just buy the replacement sight rather than wait any longer. While cleaning the pistol for the first time I noticed the bore is really rough. This was the initial cleaning before firing the first shot. It has noticeable scratches on the lands and in the grooves. All the scratches have the same twist rate as the rifling but it is a bit dishearteneing to see how rough the bore really is. No other firearm I have ever owned or looked down the barrel of has been this rough. All others are smooth and you can tell if the bore is clean but not with this pistol. So far I have shot about 200 rounds thru it using Federal 115 grain FMJ and seems OK as far as accuracy goes. It does seem as though it takes forever to get the bore clean compared to every other gun I have ever owned. Accuracy seems ok but this particular model supposedly has a match barrel but I can't tell. Here are a few pictures: This is a clean, as clean as I can get it, bore. I brushed it then mopped it for a few minutes for the pictures. Is a bore like this normal for Taurus? Also, with the rough bore I am worried it could cause leading issues with reloads and lead to pressure issues. I bought this gun to replace the Glock I sold because I didn't like the Glock. I was planning on carrying this gun but now I am worried about other quality issues if they let a bore like this out of the factory. Thanks Dolomite

I was looking for one so I could ream the chamber out to use 7.62x25 Tokarev and be able shoot cheap surplus ammo as well as handloads. I was never able to find one for what I would consider a reasonable price. I was going to load it with heavy subsonic loads I worked out a while back. The 7.62x25 Tokarev uses the more common .308 bullet rather than the .311 bullet like other combloc calibers. This makes it easy to get reloading components for reloading. I have done a metric ton of testing and reloading of the Tokarev round in various flavors. Mostly I have even loaded it with heavy bullets at subsonic velocities. This results in a rifle that was a quiet as a 10/22 firing subsonics out of it 16" barrel. The energy levels of this load were equal to a 357 magnum yet were very quiet even without a suppressor. These subsonic loads are now being used by several people who are working on them for use in LE applications. They can use the cheap surplus for practice then use the subsonic rounds with suppressors. The rounds are as quiet as a 9mm yet have more energy and offer better performance at longer ranges. They will also feed from standard magazines. Why not 300 whipsre you ask? Because it costs so much more all the way around. Factory ammunition is expensive and hard to find. Brass is expensive if you don't want to make your own. Dies are expensive as well and there generaly is a waiting period as they are considered custom dies. Chamber reamers are expensive as well. While the 7.62x25 Tokarev has readily available factory ammunition, brass, dies as well as reamers and all are very inexpensive when compared to the whisper round. And as long as you plan on keeping the bullets subsonic then both rounds are comparable in performance. Here is a thread with some pictures of my last Tokarev project: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=316439 Dolomite

And to think he did it with no less than 10 people standing around, watching and waiting for the results. Dolomite

Lying about your service to the nation, whether military or civil service, should be against the law regardless of who you are and for what reason. The wearing of decorations and/or the uniform with military decorations or insignias should be illegal if you have not been awarded it. Additionally, even if you were in the military it should be illegal to make a claim of being something you are not. I have more respect for the support troops that ensure the HSLD are able to perform their mission. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a cook or truck driver because without those people we couldn't fight our way out of a wet paperbag. When people make these false claims of military service or awards it only serves to cheapen the awards that are given to our true heroes. These true heroes are the ones who have and are currently fighting for our freedom of speech every day. It would only make sense to protect those that are safe guarding that right. I understand and agree that the freedom of speech is the most important freedom but lying about your service to the nation should not be protected under that freedom. The false claims made by these phonies do impact the lives of most Americans in several ways. It costs money to investigate and ultimately disprove their false claims. It costs money to pay for the benefits that the phonies are not entitled to. And when they do receive these benefits it takes away from the funding in a time in which it is so deperately needed by some. It also consumes time that could be used to ensure our heroes are taken care of in their time of need. We all pay for these false claims with our taxes and as such every single American should be livid about the fact it is now being legalized under the guise of freedom of speech. I really wish that laws could be written to protect those who protect us. And make the punishments so severe that people would think twice about making those claims. I would love to see one specific punishment. Make those who make false claims of military service actually spend time in the service. That way they can actually see how hard it really is. Dolomite

At the John Seviere range in halls: RSO: Is that LC brass? (as he picks up a piece of the bench I am sitting at) ME: Yes RSO: That is the best brass in the world ME: Really? RSO: Yeah, you know why? ME: Why is that? RSO: Because it was made here in Tennessee ME: No it isn't RSO: Yes it is. That is what the LC means ME: What? RSO: "LC" stands for Lenoir City ME: No it doesn't, it stands for Lake City RSO: (Confused look) Lake City is in Tennessee right? Same range, different RSO after a guy apparently shoots too fast with pistol: RSO: Stop, Stop, Stop Shooter: Why? RSO: You are shooting too fast to be accurate Shooter: I wanted to practice shooting fast RSO: You only need to practice taking one shot Shooter: Huh? RSO: Like I do with my .45 because I am a sniper Shooter: Huh? (with a WTF face) RSO: You know, one shot, one kill like all snipers do Shooter: (Rolls eyes then packs up and leaves) Same range and yet another RSO: RSO: Give me your soda bottle after you are done ME: OK A little while later I gave him the plastic Coke bottle thinking he needed a spit bottle ME: Here is my soda bottle RSO: Thanks ME: No problem, what are you needing it for? RSO: A silencer ME: What do you mean? RSO: I am going to attach the bottle to the end of my pistol to make it quiet ME: You know that doesn't work right RSO: Yes it will, I have seen it on TV and it makes them really quiet After duct taping the bottle to the end he finally shoots it and yes it was loud. He begins to try to figure out why the gun isn't "Hollywood" quiet. Dolomite

If the gun is sighted in for longer than the chrony distance I always aim just below the sky sceens, like 1/2 inch or so. I have never had a strike. You can also tape a piece of paper on the front fork and place a aiming mark just below the sky screens. Dolomite

You had to have taken a side, maybe not actively fight with one side but favored one side more than the other(s). It is hard not to form likes and dislikes in a war zone in which fighting is going on around you. So which war zone were you in? Former Yugoslavia? Dolomite

There has been a push to use bismuth as the lead replacement. I wonder what they would say if they knew that technically bismuth is unstable and radioactive. It is radioactive but because of its long half life it is considered stable. Bismuth's radioactive half life is over one billion times longer than the age of the universe. It is consdiered non toxic and as a matter of fact it is used in numerous products ingested by people. Pepto Bismol as well as Kaopectate use bismuth a their main ingredient for it antidiarrheal properties. There are some good things about using bismuth in firearms. It is considered non toxic for us as well as animals who might accidentally consume it. It is heavier than lead, has a lower melting point (521°) and is harder as well. Maybe it could be used "as is" for casting bullets without mixing in other metals like needs to be done to lead. The biggest problem to using bismuth is that it is not mined directly but is a by product of other mining operations. Because of this getting enough for ammuntition use would probably raise the cost substantially. Personally, if it did not increase the cost I would not mind seeing bismuth used for the reasons above. Dolomite

It is nothing to worry about. My wife's 9mm AR does the same thing with most ammo. As long as you aren't getting a face full of gases I wouldn't worry about changing anything. If you are then, as you said, you might want to go heavier on the spring. Dolomite

Being over there a lot since 2006 I can say there have been some issues. I have been at FOB's that were indeed short on matresses or blankets and many other items but that was because the local workers would steal them. In that case you can only blame the soldiers who are responsible for ensuring they locals don't steal the supplies. In instances where I found myself without stuff I needed I would give a local some moeny to buy me what I did need locally. Living conditions for some on the FOB's are not the greatest as far as being safe but hey you are in a combat zone so you can't expect it to be like going to the mall. Talk to some of the soldiers from 60, 40 or even 20 years ago to learn what rough living is. Soldiers on FOBs have it pretty good compared to those at the OP's or on patrol. Even with that there are times when supplies on some of the smaller FOB's are short but that is generally for a very short period of time and mostly because of weather delays. The soldiers at the OP's do go without needed stuff but like I said it isn't a chronic, long term problem. The shortages are from weather delays or heavy fighting and generally get rectified when weather or the situation permits. But I do know for a fact they do have to go without required stuff from time to time. It is the soldiers who are on foot patrol who are always on the verge of running out what they need because they have to carry everything. Because they carry everything they keep just enough for the next scheduled resupply, maybe a little more as a reserve. I have seen emergency runs to resupply water, food and ammunition to foot patrols in the mountains as they are stepping up their game. Heavy fighting can exhaust those supplies way ahead of schedule as well, leaving them in dire straights. Water especially is highly needed because higer elevations tend to dehydrate you more than the lower elevations. Couple that with the fact you are always either going seemingly straight up or straight down it wears you down and increases water consumption. I have been to some of the toughest regions over there and have seen as well as experienced some of this first hand. On my last trip, before I got hurt, I averaged getting attacked every 4 days, now I might go a few weeks but then get attacked 3-4 times in a day. I have seen plenty of fobbits complain about being on a FOB but when they go out and SHTF you never hear a complaint again. It seems as though some will complain about anything, even getting steak, lobster and crab legs every Friday. I have seen soldiers medivaced out because of heat related injuries because they had NO water and were still fighting the good fight. So there are shortages some are critical items and some are just comfort items but shortages do exist. Dolomite

As I said Bud's did everything they could to make things right with me but in the end it was Taurus' oversight that screwed us both. I hold no ill will towards Bud's now that I have everything coming together. Taurus on the other hand will not see one red cent of my money again. I doubt my next order from Bud's will be this bothersome. If and when I order from them I will only talk to one specific person within Bud's that was extremely helpful during all of this. Dolomite

So in the end I decided just to buy the sights that were supposed to come on the pistol. I called Taurus and was told they would try to get the replacement sights here within 2 weeks, putting the whole ordeal over a month. And that would be for regular sights and not the tritium sights that were supposed to be on the pistol. In my eyes this way too long for them to fix something so simple. I got the correct tritium Novaks for $63 shipped and they should be here by Tuesday which I will be happy about. I am wondering what is going to go wrong now because it can't be this easy. Bud's Gun Shup, the distributor, did all they could to make things right but in the end Taurus screwed us both. I can't really blame Bud's for the messed up pistol but I do hold them responsible for not checking the second pistol. I will probably order from them again but it will be a while before I do. Dolomite

That is great, it isn't that far for me to go. I can definitely use a mix of colors for different projects. He didn't by chance have any Gunkote did he? That is my preferred coating as I have used it dozens of times without any problems as long as you do the right prep. It doesn't really matter what coating as the prep is the most important thing to getting a professional looking outcome. Thanks again for the info and again nice looking stick. Dolomite