Fallguy

Welcome

From post on this board, I would say it is not un-common. I also figure it is a way to help judge your demeanor as well.

+1 I think people get reciprocity and recognition confused sometimes. All reciprocity means when it comes to carry permits is there is a formal, written agreement in place. However many states will recognize other state's permits even without a written agreement. Just like TN recognizes ALL other state's permits even though it doesn't have reciprocity with all the other states. Also...you may want to see these two pages.... http://www.jeffcosheriff.org/gun_law_packet.pdf Jefferson County Sheriff's Office

Check the 2nd post in this thread. Click on the Public Chapter Number listed, scroll down toward the end and it will show the effective date.

I agree...I believe the intent of that section was to allow the ranger to issue a special order to close a road or area because of flooding or other "special" situations. But as you said...when no one is looking they can pretty much do what they want. I have thought about when things with restaurant & park carry settle down a bit here in TN, of trying to contact the sponsors of the National Park carry legislation. Maybe the could write some bill that could say that part of the CFR does not allow for an official to issue a general ban on firearms in the whole forest...or however they think it would need to be worded. and/or contact the NRA with the suggestion and let them know how several local rangers are using that regulation for a general prohibition.

True....lol But in my limited experience as a dispatcher and working with LEOs...the public generally wants the police to press charges and not them have to themselves. They just want to rant and rave and say something needs to be done and so on...but they do not usually want to take the time to come to court themselves or get involved beyond dropping a dime. But granted on this issue...some jerkoff restaurateurs may very well do such things....I mean they are at least 10 in Nashville already going to court...

Well that is just wrong...it will be crime if the place is posted. To be honest this just seems so unreal to me.....I mean how can there be such a group of misguided, uniformed zealots?!? I mean we have disagreed about some things on this board, but as long as both sides made logical, intelligible arguments you could at least respect the other persons opinion, even if you didn't agree with it. But these arguments are just made up of falsehoods and lies....how do you argue with that? Ladies and gentlemen please pray this is assigned to a judge with common sense and this is dismissed before it can really get any traction.

First let me say I am NOT advocation doing anything illegal. But carry past even a proper sign is a misdemeanor. A LEO can not make an arrest on a misdemeanor unless it occurs in his presence. So if you are outside when the LE gets there, the owner is the only one that could press charges if he wanted to carry it that far. Of course given the emotional nature of all of this, the owner very well might.

You are right... My point is/was that's it not illegal to simply enter a place if it is not properly posted. But yes...even if a place is not posted at all, you must leave if the property owner tells you to.

In the end...I really don't feel this lawsuit has much merit...but then again it doesn't really matter what I think. The biggest think I'd had to see is an injunction.

The state parks were legal the moment the Governor signed it...so yes, you would be legal tonight. Oh me...Cherokee National Forest....there is another thread discussing it (see here, starting about post 33). From what I can tell (not my area of the state) Cherokee National Forest is also a state WMA. Right now state WMAs are off-limits (Governor got the bill today to make them legal). So Cherokee National Forest may still be off-limits, but because it is also a state WMA. It also doesn't seem anyone at CNF knows the answer for sure though, see this post. As far as carrying a copy of the new law...I have been known to do that depending on the situation.

Yes, you can legally carry in a state park. (Even though there may still be signs posted against carry) On National Forest there is no TN state law, federal law or federal regulation that prohibits carry in a National Forest. However the ranger that has control over a National Forest can issue a "special order" relative to the forest under his control to prevent carry, such as has been done in LBL. So on National Forest, you may want to check with the ranger at that forest. Also...any Federal Buildings in a National Forest would be off-limits still.

FYI: Got everything together and order it today. Went ahead and took a chance on some ammo too...they had a deal where if you bought it at the same time as the AK you could get 1000rds of Wolf for $250.

You should pull your copy of the TCA out and look at it again then. The law itself says "substantially similar" that is far from specific. AFAIK there has been no court case to help define what substantially similar is. The AG has issued some opinions on what is not substantially similar in some cases, but that by no means cover all possibilities. Now if I see a sign, I can tell whether I think it is in compliance or not and if I feel it's not, I know how I would argue my point to whoever I may need to. My point simply was...that you may have to express your point as to why you thought it was non-compliant to someone of authority. Also...on restaurants...my main point was compliant or not, even just a "No Guns" with the slash symbol pretty much tells you the owners intent...so while on July 14, 2010 it may not be a big deal....on July 14, 2009 it's not going to make a difference to some what a compliant or non-compliant sign was if you knowingly went against the owner's wishes. That being said...there are many factors that determine where and how I carry....the TCA is just one of those factors. As my friend DaveTN says (who I do disagree with at times, but always agree on this point) everyone just needs to make an informed decision.

I emailed the TWRA last week about what effect HB0961 would have about a FAQ on their website about no carry guns allowed. They basically said get back in touch when it becomes law. So doesn't sound like they have been making any plans on it. On National Forest..... It seems some trouble is, the local ranger for each National Forest can issue their own "special orders" (per 36CFR261.50). Some have used 36CFR261.53(e) which allows them to make special orders for "public safety" to ban carry handguns. Such as in LBL. Otherwise the only things they can prohibit by order are in 36CFR261.58 There are also special rules for some areas in the Code of Federal Regulations. Region 5 in 36CFR261.75, Region 8 in 36CFR261.77 and Region 9 in 36CFR261.78 The general list of things prohibited in National Forest by the CFR is in Title 36, Chapter 2, Part 261 and can be seen here So basically...some rangers are using the "special orders" provision as their own "local loophole" to ban carry in their National Forest.

IMO a museum is not a "recreational" building. But I'm not as cultured as some......

There is no database for just restaurants, however you can check our database here I would encourage everyone to help update the database when you find a place that is posted. If a place is posted improperly...then it is not "illegal" if you carry there. But if you are made then you more than likely will be told to leave. Two notes....what a "proper" posting is could be decided by a LEO, judge or jury not just by you or the owner. Also more specifically on restaurants. With all the media attention this law has got, I don't think the media would make the distinction between a proper or improper posting if someone was made in a restaurant that had posted. They would simply say something like "Supposedly law abiding HCP holder still carrys in posted restaurant."

Also the main reason the citizen won the suit was, there had been other incidents in the parking lot or at least close. So the court said it "was a known danger" and they didn't nothing to correct the problem and/or protect their customers. You can see the ruling here But a place has no duty to protect you against the "general problems" of society. So...if patrons of a place had been mugged 3-4 times and the owner did nothing to correct the problem or protect you and something happened you'd have a pretty good case, but in general....No.

I'm not familliar with the place, but just because it is run by the parks dept doesn't make it a park I wouldn't think. From what other have said, it is a museum...not a park. So carry should be legal there now, unless the city has posted a 39-17-1359 sign.

Seems like he is using a part of the code as a catch all. 36CFR261.53 simply allows for special closures. Part (e) says they can issue one for "public safety". So it seems the head of LBL is just using this because he doesn't want firearms in LBL and deems it because of public safety. Sort of like the "local loophole" for US Forest Rangers 36CFR261.50 is what allows he to make special orders within his jurisdiction. Otherwise the only things that can be prohibited by order are in 36CFR261.58

+1

I agree on the coming on your property. Guess I was thinking of if it happened out in public somewhere.

LOL...I do feel for ya though. Although not quite the same I've been waiting nearly 3 months for my renwal to come in...

Not so sure a jury would see it that way.....

Well it's not even been a month yet...not quite sure it's time to be impatient yet.