.338 Lapua or .308 for new "sniper" rifle?

[Jasongar8]

Hey guys I going to get me a new long range "tactical" type rifle. I have decided on the Remington 700 Police. But I havent decided on the caliber. The .338 Lapua is the hot thing in long range rifles now. I do re-load so find ammo wont be a problem when i get the components to re-load. Thye .338 is more expensive to shoot but its not like a AR where you shoot a ton of rounds through it. The .308 is the old trusty round but everyone has them. Any of you guys have experience with the .338 lapua? Any suggestions on different rifles or calibers that you like better are welcome. Thanks,

-Jason G

[R1100R]

If you have never shot a .338 Lapua without a muzzle break your in for a treat. I have a heavy Walther barreled 700 before this round was popular. It's a beast.

[glockster157]

308/7.62 Nato....ammo/component availability will be more important than range or coolness factors. There are many good match grade 308 loads readily available plus reloading components also. And you have the advantage of shooting military ball in a pinch. The round is good to 600 yards+. Spend the saved money on better glass, bi-pod, sling, case, etc.

Edited January 26, 2009 by glockster157

[mousegunner]

A 20 round box of .338 Lapua will run you about $120.00. This is a rifle for rich guys! But, if you can afford it, more power to you!

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=104848

Edited January 26, 2009 by mousegunner
added link

[Fadex]

You should also look at the difference in barrel life between the .308 and .338.

[Guest Mugster]

Those are 2 completely different rounds. .308 is a real mild .30 caliber and the .338 is a beast. I guess you need to decide what distance you want to shoot at and how much power you want when the bullet gets to the target. I'd say a 7mm rem mag or .300 win mag might be somewhere in between. Or one of the new short mags.

[I_Like_Pie]

Here is the way I see it. In Tennessee:

.338 Lapua is not a very practical round.

-and-

.308 is one of the most versatile cartridges made.

Unless you are frequently shooting over 500 yards or so (who does other than hard core target shooters?) There really isn't anything that the .338 does that the .308 can't.

[Guest smittyb]

Those are 2 completely different rounds. .308 is a real mild .30 caliber and the .338 is a beast. I guess you need to decide what distance you want to shoot at and how much power you want when the bullet gets to the target. I'd say a 7mm rem mag or .300 win mag might be somewhere in between. Or one of the new short mags.

I agree here, I'd recommend the .300 RUM, much more impressive ballistically than the .308. Also if cost isn't a problem check out the 7.82 Warbird from Lazzeroni, thats a flat shoting .30.

[323ssplt]

I have both a 308 and a 338. If you are just getting into long range shooting then go with the 308. As stated above it is cheaper to shoot, easier to find components for and unless you have a 1000 yard plus range you really can't appreciate the full benefits of the Lapua. Also if you are wanting Remington 700 in 338 Lapua you will have a long wait ahead of you, it took me almost a year and a half to get mine!!

If you are looking for something more than the 308, go with a match grade 300 win mag. They are a little more costly than the 308 rounds, but they shoot flatter and remain supersonic longer than the 308. it falls somewhere between the 308 and 338.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

All good advice.. I don't think that I will try to expand upon it.. too much. Just remember, what is the military using? Mostly .308 with some using the 50BMG. That said.. also the .416 Barrett. What does most police and corrections agencies use? .308.. Now as to the Secret Service.. they used to use the 7mm Mag., but now use the 300WinMag. Of course, there is the 30FBI, I think that is cuz they just want to be special. Getting componets right now for any of these rounds is a little hard. Expecially for the 308 and 300WM. Then there is practical king of the 1000 yard line. The 6.5X284win, now there is a round that is truly hard to beat. It is a true wind bucker, easy to learn to dope, it is very accurate if you find a load, goes really fast and burns up a barrel in the least amount of rounds (800 - 1200). Most rounds that are good out to 1000 yards burn a barrel up fast except the 308, to which common barrel life is around 4500 rounds. The others, 1500 rounds. Now if you want to be different, then I would look at the 6mm variants. Here the 6XC, 6-6.5X47Lapua, 6BR come to mind. Then there is 6.5 swede, 6.5 Creedmoor and the 260Rem. All of these rounds will give you a barrel life of about 2500 rounds. The 6BR should give a barrel life of about 4000 rounds. Just some food for thought.

[USMCJG]

I agree with FroggyOne2, if you're just wanting a long range bench gun then I'd look into the 6.5mm offerings, like the 6.5x284 Norma(likely my next gun), 6.5 Creedmore, and even the .260 Rem.(or .260 AI). They shoot fast and flat with much better ballistics(less drop and drift) than the .308. And they do it all with less recoil too. And not everyone has a 6.5(except most competitive 1,000 yd. shooters), if you want to be different. Of course some of these, like the 6.5x284 Norma, are considered by some to be barrel burners(good for at least 1,250 rds. though, from everything I've seen).

Like everyone else said there is a HUGE difference in recoil between the .308 and the .338(about 15ft-lb for .308 and 42ft-lb for .338:dropjaw:). A muzzle brake will reduce the recoil of the .338, but it's still going to kick hard. The .300 Win.Mag.(about 27ft-lb recoil energy), is a good compromise, as mentioned. It kicks quite a bit harder than the .308, but nothing like the .338. I would personally consider the .338 to be at a disadvantage to the .308 at anything less than 500yds., just because I don't want to flinch knowing my rifle is about to knock the crap out of me. But if you're wanting something that will kill a grizzly at 800 yds., then the .338 is definitely the way to go.

Cliff

P.S.- I got the approximate recoil numbers from- http://www.accuratereloading.com/recoil.html

[Guest tedbo]

I vote 308.

You can shoot 308,30-06,or 300 win.using the .30 cal components.

More flexibility,yaknow!

[Jasongar8]

Heys guys thanks for all of the input. I have a .338 Rem. Ultra Mag thats is a "hunting" rifle. Even though I havent ever shot anything but paper with it. This gun is going to be a paper gun too but a tactical style rifle. Everything I have read about the .338 Lapua has been that it is the stuff for shots over 500 yards, when you dont want to go to the .50BMG. As far as the ammo I have found it for around $50 a box, I thought that the $120 stuff seemed high. I do want the Lapua so I am going to start looking for a Remington 700 Police in .338, it comes with everything I want and is relatively cheap compaired to other .338 Lapuas. I think it will be a while before I find one, as the more i have researched them the harder they seem to be to find. In the mean time I am going to pick up a 700 Police in .308 and put me some good glass on it and start practiceing with it. When the Lapua comes around the bend I will be ready to move out to 500+. Thanks again guys.

-Jason G

[323ssplt]

Occassionally you can find the 700 338 Lapua at http://www.snipercountrypx.com.

Also, where are you finding Lapua ammo at for $50 a box. The last "deal" I got on ammmo was Hornady for $70 a box

[USMCJG]

Heys guys thanks for all of the input. I have a .338 Rem. Ultra Mag thats is a "hunting" rifle. Even though I havent ever shot anything but paper with it. This gun is going to be a paper gun too but a tactical style rifle. Everything I have read about the .338 Lapua has been that it is the stuff for shots over 500 yards, when you dont want to go to the .50BMG. As far as the ammo I have found it for around $50 a box, I thought that the $120 stuff seemed high. I do want the Lapua so I am going to start looking for a Remington 700 Police in .338, it comes with everything I want and is relatively cheap compaired to other .338 Lapuas. I think it will be a while before I find one, as the more i have researched them the harder they seem to be to find. In the mean time I am going to pick up a 700 Police in .308 and put me some good glass on it and start practiceing with it. When the Lapua comes around the bend I will be ready to move out to 500+. Thanks again guys.

-Jason G

Sounds like you've got a plan. But no need to wait for the .338 to start shooting past 500. The .308 is easily up to the task of 800 meters(this is generally considered the maximum effective range for the .308 for military snipers, but shots in excess of 1,000 meters are not unheard of). It's more about the indian than the arrow anyway.

Cliff

[323ssplt]

Actually, the 308 is good out to 1000 yards. Marine snipers qual out to that routinely. The only downside is that the 175 grain 7.62 that we shoot goes subsonic between 900 and 1000, so anything past 1000 is a bit of a gamble. However, I have engaged targets out to about 1250 with it with some success. The 338 stays supersonic out to 1500 yards making it realatively "easy" to mak hits out to that distance and beyond.

[Jasongar8]

Also, where are you finding Lapua ammo at for $50 a box. The last "deal" I got on ammmo was Hornady for $70 a box

http://www.grafs.com/product/192065

http://www.grafs.com/product/192062

Is where i saw it, that may be for 10 rounds, the website is not very clear. Sorry for any confusion.

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=AHDY8230

Is showing Hornady 250 Gr. BTHP for $74.44, but they are out of stock.

[323ssplt]

I think those are 10 round boxes, 20 boxes per case. I believe that is what it means. Also if you look at Midway, they list those as 10 round boxes.

Damned, you got my hopes up for relatively "cheap" 338 factory ammo. Oh well, will have to bite the bullet and buy those $150+ competition dies.

[USMCJG]

Actually, the 308 is good out to 1000 yards. Marine snipers qual out to that routinely. The only downside is that the 175 grain 7.62 that we shoot goes subsonic between 900 and 1000, so anything past 1000 is a bit of a gamble. However, I have engaged targets out to about 1250 with it with some success. The 338 stays supersonic out to 1500 yards making it realatively "easy" to mak hits out to that distance and beyond.

Thanks 323 ssplt. I'm sure my info is a little dated. I visited Scout/Sniper Instructor School at Quantico, VA in 1991 and this(800yds.) was the number I remembered being told at the time. Unfortunately, due to an injury, I never made it back there for training.

Cliff

[323ssplt]

USMCJG..no problem.........I know how they shove so much down your throat you end up forgetting so much. And in '91 they might have still been shooting at 800. I know Pendleton didn't start shooting at 1000 till just a yea or two ago, when they finally built a 1000 yard range. We used to tease them about going through the "lite" course.

BTW what does the "JG" stand for if you don't mind me asking.

[323ssplt]

Oh, yeah, and the army quals "only" out to 800 with their M24's.

[USMCJG]

USMCJG..no problem.........I know how they shove so much down your throat you end up forgetting so much. And in '91 they might have still been shooting at 800. I know Pendleton didn't start shooting at 1000 till just a yea or two ago, when they finally built a 1000 yard range. We used to tease them about going through the "lite" course.

BTW what does the "JG" stand for if you don't mind me asking.

My initials are CJG.

[Jasongar8]

Damned, you got my hopes up for relatively "cheap" 338 factory ammo. Oh well, will have to bite the bullet and buy those $150+ competition dies.

That is one thing that draws me to to the .338LM is reloading it. I think it would be a fun challenge to work up a real accurate load for a round that is not the most popular and when you finally do get it dialed in you know that you did everything thing, from loading the ammo to sighting the gun in and finally making the shot.

-Jason G

[323ssplt]

Ok. When I first saw your name I thought Junior Grade like a Navy Lt junior Grade, but I knew that couldn't be right. 10 years in the military has corrupted me I guess.

[323ssplt]

That is one thing that draws me to to the .338LM is reloading it. I think it would be a fun challenge to work up a real accurate load for a round that is not the most popular and when you finally do get it dialed in you know that you did everything thing, from loading the ammo to sighting the gun in and finally making the shot.

-Jason G

I as well love reloading, but hell, damned near everyone of my rifles shoots soooo damned well with factory ammo that it's hard to match or beat it with my handloads... I guess I'm both blessed and cursed.

Now I will reload for my 338 just for economy, and when I start my 6.5-284 build I really want to see what handloads will do for that puppy.