Grunt81

Geeez!!!   Well, I'm sticking to you guys and other gun fanatics and reloaders.   I promise, the extent of my political view-inflicting would be a Rand Paul 2016 bumper sticker, and maybe a sign in my front yard, at most.

No offense taken, but you DID burst my bubble lol. Really? I heard that was true for Nashville, but are there other areas in TN people are flocking too with their own politics? I'm pretty much set on the Knoxville area myself.   It's hard to change people's minds. The same ones who believe in gay marriages and whatnot should support our right to bear arms. We've established that the right to bear arms has always existed. But what I mean when I say that, is no 10-round magazine, barrel length, or ammo type restrictions.

Very true, and thank you for the pre-welcome! The move will be in about 4 weeks. I've heard from a coworker who used to live in Spain, that they are only allowed to own bolt-action rifles for the purposes of hunting. Supposedly, if someone breaks into their house, they are not allowed to shoot them with said bolt-action rifle. I guess they can still "bear" arms, but any semiautomatic pistol or rifle is out of the question, as is the right to defend your home with a firearm. It's my fault for not elaborating and painting everything with the broad, 2nd ammendment brush. Forgive me. I need to denounce my birthright to California or something lol. Keep in mind, I come from a place where the list of firearms we are allowed to own, gets shorter dam near every day.    Since I'll most likely end up powder coating my cast lead bullets, a Glock 26 is on the maybe list, as is a SW MP 9c. I dig the double-stack magazines for the higher capacity, but I'll need to see them next to a single stack to get a good idea of concealability. But that's neither here nor there and I hate to hijack a thread. I'll probably start a thread of my own on CCW pistol suggestions soon.

WTF! That's very surprising. I thought the southern states were dominantly Replubican. Well Hildebeeste isn't getting anything from me or mine. I'm voting Rand Paul if he's the Replubican candidate. I don't care really about anything else other than the fact that he is pro guns. Nothing else matters to me. A few things we can always count on is death, taxes, and corruption in government.

  I was born and raised in a rough neighborhood just north of Los Angeles. I've spent the last 30 years in California, aside from Vegas trips, 6 months in the south, and a year and a half in Iraq as an Infantry Marine. Make no mistake, California has a huge community of devout gun owners, reloaders, and casters, who participate in every type of shooting competition imagineable. I've sold factory ammo and weapons on Calguns. They all move the same day and I get plenty of inquiries after I've sold stuff. There are also 4 companies in the California State Militia, mostly former military, which span the entire state. But still, regardless of the fact my entire family is there, it's not enough to keep me in California. I can't live the lifestyle I want to live here. The cost of living is through the roof and the traffic has me cussing in my SUV more often than I'd like to admit.    This post, or even the perception of it being believable, is just one of the many reasons my wife and I are getting out. She was born and raised in north Georgia so her family will be close when we move to Tennessee. That's the reason I joined this forum, although I do spend a lot more of my internet time on Calguns.net. I don't need anyone to tell me whether or not I'm "worthy" of living in Tennessee. That's where my wife and I want to raise our family. I am absolutely pro 2nd ammendment in it's truest form, "shall not be infringed," as are many of my friends and family here. I am a college graduate, a disabled veteran, and a contributing member to our society in the field of medical laboratory science. Believe you me, without a shadow of a doubt, California has one of the highest prepping populations of any state, due to the tyranny that occurs here. In many places outside of California, I am eligible for a CCW, which I'm hoping changes soon. There have been talks about a federal CCW which would overule the communism that occurs in Commiefornia. We'll see if it's the fluff I think it is. Regardless, getting my CCW and my wife's is a high priority when we get to TN.   I would proudly stand shoulder-to-shoulder with any of you fine gentleman, if the day were to come where we had to fight off a government led by a tyrant, or an invasion from a foreign country. I am already well prepared for that and I keep my wife and son, well-trained as well, not just in long range accuracy, but also in quick target acquisition.   I'm under no illusions. I'm NOT white, but there IS racism in the south. If in the unfortunate chance I encounter that (which I haven't througout 6 months in the Carolinas and Georgia) then I'm prepared for that as well. If you any of you see a bald brown guy with a thick black beard, ask me if I know Grunt81 lol. I'm sure we'll all get along just fine, but I won't tolerate racism in any form. I was born in, and paid a very high price to live in this great country. My wife is white and a former Marine Captain. And we're going to raise children who defend the 2nd ammendment and all of our freedsoms that seem to keep slipping away.

There's something about operating the press, feeling the operation taking place inside the die, and piling up boxes of sparkling ammo, that is intangible.  If there's a box of 9mm aviable for $7/50 rounds, I would seriously question the quality. I am an accuracy nut and I don't produce foreign-grade crap, ever, not even if I'm just shooting at steel. I would need to shoot a couple of 10 shot groups off a rest, side by side with my reloads to be convinced it's not the "chicken nugget" scrap leftover that I think it is. Some people think a shotgun pattern the size of a dinner plate at 15 yards is good shooting. To me, good shooting WITH A GOOD LOAD is a tight cluster at 15 yards and consistent hits on a torso at 120 yards offhand.   But, some people just want to pull the trigger indiscrimanently, to feel the recoil and see an impact. That's fine. There'll be more components on the shelf when I need them. I don't stock up. I buy only what I need, leave the rest for the next reloader, and hopefully there'll be some there in month after a few more shipments. So far, I haven't had an issue.    Casting bullets and dry tumble powder coating is always cheaper than buying bullets that are ready to load. There are so many online bullet manufacturers who are never out of stock. In my experience, primers of every category are always in stock at my local reloading stores - maybe not the brand you want, but something will be there. For example, Federal 210 Match large rifle primers will be sold out, but Winchester LRPs are always there. So the limiting factor truly is, powder. Get an 8lb jug and you'll be getting at least one pound free, that will last at least one year or at least 12,000 9mm rounds.   The cheapest I've ever seen factory ammo go for is $10.50 or so for Tula steel-cased 9mm. With copper plated bullets, each box of 50 reloads runs me right at or under $7. I'm not going to include the breakdown for lead bullets since the OP has concerns shooting them out of his factory Glock barrel. By the way, I dropped in a Storm Lake barrel in my G17 and it works great for cast lead. Time wise, which is insignificant to me, takes me around 11 minutes to load 50 rounds. I usually shoot 300 pistol rounds each session so it takes me about an hour to load for each range trip. An hour of relaxation, that is.   I don't know anyone who only owns one weapon that is a 9mm. The cost savings from reloading goes up with additional calibers, JHP self-defense reloads (another can of worms I won't open right now), and match-grade hi-power rifle reloads like i make for my .308. I originally began reloading to save money on .223. So now I can make match-grade .223 for $6 per 20 round box, where it would cost me around $20 per box of 20 for "match-grade" ammo that isn't tailored to my rifle.   So to everyone reading this, please buy factory ammo and do NOT consider reloading  :yuck: (joke). I hope I'm not sounding like a snob because I'm not trying to. My best advice for the OP is to track down a buddy or a member, go to their house, and have them supervise you while you reload ammo that you are going to shoot. If you like it, there's your answer. Get into reloading 9mm. If you hate it, then go to Wally World every morning at 7am and hope they have Perfecta fodder. Now that I think about it, the time you spend trying to track down a box of cheap factory ammo, you could've already loaded it.   Another cheap alternative would be to buy reloads online from licensed FFLs. You can get a box of 50 relods from these guys for $10 in a free ammo can, if you buy in bulk. $300/1500  https://www.laxammo.com/ammunition/handgun-reloads/lax-ammunition-reloaded-9mm-115gr.-1500-round-w-free-can/22-225

Powders I've used for 55grain FMJ w/cannelure bullets are CFE Pistol, H335, and W748. Any ball powders from Hodgon will serve you well, as ball powder meters like water. You'll definitely make 2 MOA ammo at worst (if your technique and skills are right) which is good enough for shooting at steel.   For subMOA match or longer range loads, I use a 69 grain HPBT with Varget, AR Comp, RL15, or IMR 4064. These work well for that purpose.    Good luck.

Thanks for sharing! 

Did you order loaded ammunition or reloading components?

Merry Christmas!   That's pretty exciting. Congrats to you for having married a good woman!   Don't forget, the Rock Chucker Supreme Maser Kit doesn't come with everything you need to begin hand loading.   Tumbler, media, dies, brass, bullets, powder, primers, powder trickler, brass trimming kit and pilots (I like Lyman for trimming on a drill), and large/small swaging tool if reloading military brass.   Optional would be a decent digital scale (Gempro 250 or Frankford Arsenal Platinum Powder Scale), primer pocket uniforming tool, and a flash hole uniforming tool.

It is completely optional to tumble your brass after resizing and decapping. I use the Redding lube and lube pad. I'll wet tumble afterward if I'm not in a rush. If I want to finish prepping the brass to load right away, I'll just wipe them with a white, cotton T-shirt after resizing.   I will mention, it is wise to dry your wet tumbled brass in the oven or food dehydrator. The one time I let it air dry for 24 hours then resized, I realized that there was still water between the primer and primer pocket. When I uniform the primer pockets to clean them, the black carbon would stick to the primer pocket, if it's dried properly, then the primer pockets clean up nicely and leave a black mist on my paper towel, instead of a black booger stuck to the case.   Another thing I'd recommend, is to tumble after resizing to get the lube off if you are planning on sorting your cases by weight.    For 9mm, regardless of whether or not it resizes easily, I use a little bit of Hornady Unique on my finger tips. I just put a very slight wipe on each case as I grab it and tap my finger tips into the lube every 10 rounds or so. Not only does it make resizing easier, but it also makes the act of resizing work your brass less, IMO. I use such little lube, I don't even bother trying to wipe it off. A completed round off my turret press goes straight into the ammo box I take to the range.   If you wet tumble pistol brass, I'd definitely recommend using a universal decapping die before tumbling. That way, as soon as they are dry they are ready to load.

Reloading 9mm on a turret press requires very little effort. I also use Lee dies and they are NOT carbide. My process is pretty simple. Once every six months or so, I take all 4,000 9mm cases I own, spend 2-3 hours to deprime them on a Lee universal decapping die, and in to a bucket they go. Then, I maintain a jar of about 700 cases that are deprimed and tumbled. Since they're already deprimed, just grab cases from that bucket, tumble them, and put them into a plastic container. That's your ''ready" jar. So whenever I want to load 9mm, I just grab clean brass from the jar. Since I wet tumble, I get the primer pockets dam near immaculate. When sizing, Hornady Unique case lube is a lot cheaper than practically every other case lube out there. A little goes a long way. If you reload rifle rounds, just go with Redding Imperial case wax. The only thing cheaper than Hornady Unique, is making your own with Lanolin and 100% Isopropyl achohol (I think it's isopropyl). It just takes a small, thin wipe on the case and resizing is easy. I've never gotten a 9mm case stuck.   Since you always have a bucket of deprimed brass ready to tumble at your leisure, it doesn't really feel like work.    As a rule of thumb, I have never a put a piece of range brass through my resizing dies without tumbling them and lubing them. But since you need so little lube for 9mm, you don't have to tumble them afterward, you don't even have to wipe them off. It practically just evaporates.

I'm not saying that Nosler Custom Competition works better for me than SMK. Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr shot pretty good as well, just not good as my hand loads. I've just haven' bought a box yet to try. I'm going to go up to the 175 grain bullets since my twist rate is a 1:10. For what it's worth, I've noticed the Noslers have a more uniform hollow point than smk's. Here's what one of my buddies sent me who is very experienced at extreme long range shooting. He prefers a .338 Lapua magnum for shots a mile away.   "For bullets, in .308, I just stick with 168gr SMKs. I use 44.4gr IMR 4064 @ 2.800-2.805" and get about 2,775fps in my 24" barrel, which is more than fine for .308. The reason I use 168 SMKs is that they are relatively inexpensive, and they are a really balanced bullet where it's nearly impossible to beat their accuracy. They will start to underperform at about 800 yards compared to what others would. I have tried many other bullets for .308, and nothing does better accuracy than a 168 SMK. Geometrically, SMKs are far from perfect, but the 168gr SMK has a big fat tangent o-give, which makes it more forgiving. The lower drag bullets will have secant o-gives that make them a bit more sensitive.

I've found that my local reloading stores are a few dollars more expensive than MidwayUSA. If you're only ordering bullets, then it might not be worth it to order from midway due to the shipping cost. The best deal out there is typically a 1,000 bullet bag from powder valley. As for the Nosler 168 grain Custom Competition, here's a little testimony for them.... This happened while zeroing my 3-9X40 Nikon. When looking through my spotting scope, I thought I was missing the target and did a scope adjustment. That's why you see the 4th round in the bottom of the diamond. Nosler makes good bullets.....remeasuring and accounting for bullet hole size, the group is closer to 0.16 MOA [URL=http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/fhernandez145/media/PhotoGrid_1417796193521_zps37a68528.jpg.html][/URL]

I have loaded .223 with Varget, Reloader 15, Winchester 748, CFE 223, H335 and AR Comp.   The most accurate powder I've come across is AR Comp. Combine that with a Remington 71/2 small rifle primer and you should be in business.

Understood. That's some impressive shooting! I've shot about 22, 5-shot groups. Only a few of them were sub MOA and I haven't been able to duplicate that clover leaf. I have had a few vertical or horizontal strings, where 3 shots are touching and the other 2 open up the group to just barely sub MOA.   I'm going to put the Varget aside for the time being and start working through some IMR 4064. I've heard good things about it. I'll also take the man's advice and seat 'em longer, to around 10 thousandths off the lands or less and see how they do.

Gotcha. I'm a little hesitant to seat 'em jammed into the lands, since this can spike pressure. Do you think jamming 'em would lead to quicker throat erosion?

You are absolutely right in what you say. I agree with your post, completely and I'm glad you mentioned this. More practice does lead to better accuracy and I hope no one is trying to "dot" an "i" with a short-barreled, compact, concealable pistol.   Personally, I've noticed a huge difference in accuracy between a 3"/ 3.5" barrel (can't remember) and a 5" barrel using the exact same ammo, at a distance of 17 yards shot from a rest. The difference was ridiculous. I'm talking a 10-shot, 2" group vs a 10-shot 12" group! That difference can mean either a hit or a miss, when taking rapid shots.   Once the OP determines how inherently accurate his pistol is, with a given type of ammo at 20yds, then, if he misses, he'll know it was his fault and not the "ammo's" fault  or the "short barrel's" fault.....on the same token, if the defensive shooting occurs within 5 yards, any factory amm should be "minute of man" any day of the week. But I'd like to be prepared for the chance a shot may have to be taken at 20 yards or so.   I guess a better way to say it is, "With my pistol and defense ammo, HOW FAR away can I get a fist-sized, 'minute-of-man' group?"   Amen.

Hey gents. I'm new to loading for .308. I picked up  a Savage 11 Trophy Hunter XP and have fired my first 140 rounds or so. My tightest group at 100 yards happened to be with a 168 grain match bullet, seated to an OAL of 2.833", atop a full-length sized LC case using Varget. I've determined that max OAL for this bullet to touch the lands is 2.853". This means my rounds were 0.020" off the lands. I can post a pic if you'd like, but it was a tight clover leaf, less than 0.2 MOA for a three shot group (too bad I thought I was missing the target and adjusted my scope, otherwise it'd be a 5-shot group). I haven't been able to duplicate a group anywhere that tight since then.   I talked to an old-timer who runs my local reloading store. He has a lot of competition experience and he suggested I seat my bullets from 0.005" - 0.010" of the lands. I was wondering what jmup to the lands some you all prefer for your bolt action rifles.   Thanks for your input.

For .223 and .308, I typically get load data from at least two, if not three sources, to make sure they jive with each other. Different bullets of the same weight can have different jacket thicknesses and bearing surfaces. I'll typically start 0.5 grains above minimum, and load 5 rounds for each AR, working up in increments of 0.5 grains, until I get to around 0.5 grains below max. I've found accurate loads each time, by doing this, and I'm free to fine tune if I feel like it.    For those of you using P-mags, I've found that I can load my rounds up to 2.268" and they still feed flawlessly.    Great groups, worriedman! Doesn't get much better than that! Pretty good for only using a 4X. My 20" 1:8 varmint AR wears a 4-12X40 Nikon P-223 and can duplicate your group size with 69 grain match bullets.   I agree with the school of thought that accuracy is more important than a little bit more velocity.

You're welcome Bud (pun intended) haha. That was my first post on this site, by the way.   What I've found to make a good pistol rest is this: If I'm outdoors sitting at a bench, a backpack, elevated to a comfortable height works fine. If I'm at an indoor range, then I take my Caldwell shooting bags. I stack the rear bag on top of the front bag, upside down. This makes a nice stable platform to rest your forearms on and maintain sight picture/sight alignment. When accuracy testing like that, I'll shoot 5 rounds slowly, put the weapon down and pick up my brass. Aside from inspecting the spent primers for pressure issues, I'm also letting my eye rest. Straining your eye for too long will make things look blurry that shouldn't be. Focus on the front sight, everything else should look out of focus or hazy. The accuracy test only needs to be done once. I save my targets for future reference. Then just blast, train, and have fun plinking with cheap ol' fmj.

Don't sweat it at all. Shoot 'em with confidence. I've opened up boxes of Remington and Winchester JHPs as well as Federal American eagle FMJ and have noticed this that little bulge as well. Even though steel is harder than brass, I can also faintly see it on some TULAmmo rounds. Yes, if screw your bullet seating die out a 3/4 of a turn or so, it should disappear. But I don't crimp my 9mm and have noticed better accuracy when I see that little bulge. I'm guessing the explanation behind that is more uniform neck tension leads to a more uniform "push" down the barrel as the powder ignites.    As long as your OAL isn't too short, it'll be safe.

With all of today's improvements in modern 9mm jacketed hollow point self defense ammo, there's no need to ever feel undergunned. Performance of 9's get it done. The most important thing is accurate shots on target. Personally, I would stay away from 115 grain anything. It starts off fast but tends to slam on the brakes. I shot all but a couple mags worth of 115grain Remington I had for a long time and am running 147 grain Winchester White Box JHPs right now. I also mass load 135gr for training and SHTF in a Glock 17 and Beretta 92F.   However, since you're directly asking about self defense ammo for a compact firearm, you may get better accuracy out of a short barrel with a 124 grain projectile. The slightly lighter weight may allow the rifling to stabilize it better before leaving the barrel. Hornady and Federal also make 135gr JHPs.   I personally don't feel the need to have a bonded bullet. The chance of me shooting through a barrier in a self defense situation are pretty slim, in my opinion. If I were you, I'd just buy a box each of whatever's on the shelf, in 124gr and heavier. I'd do an accuracy and function test from a rest at 25 yards, to try and take the human error out and see which round is more accurate out of that pistol. Shoot 10 rounds per target and see how they grouped. I'd shoot 20 rounds from each box. If group size looked the same, I'd go with the heavier rounds since they carry their momentum better. Penetration is the first priority. Expansion, is a bonus.   Good luck in whatever you decide.