Cruel Hand Luke

Redbarron, If you look a little closer at the Suarez schedule you might find something located even closer to you in a few weeks...

If a person is in reasonable fear of grave bodily injury or death then you can counter that threat with lethal force. You can also use lethal force to protect a third party if THEY are in reasonable fear of grave bodily injury or death. Basicly you need to ask yourself this question....."If I do not shoot this person (or persons) is someone going to die or be crippled?" If the answer is YES then do it. If someone is NOT about to be either killed or crippled by the perpetrator's actions then you probably should not be shooting them....

I'm not from Memphis but I'll chime in.... I have taken Comabtive Pistol I, Combative Pistol II, Dynamic Marksmanship, and both the Instructor class, and the Advanced instructor class and attended, RO'd and presented at the Rangemaster Tactical Conference when it was still held in Memphis. I travelled from Chattanooga to do this. I would not have done that if the training were not top notch and if I felt "unwelcome". Tom gets a bad rap for being maybe a little too blunt , but I think sometimes folks are maybe just a little too thin skinned. And there is no law saying everyone has to like everyone. Some personalities just do not mesh well. Now, as to how his instructors other than himself conduct classes.... I cannot speak to that as he has taught every class I have had from Rangemaster. And as to the everyday range operations I do not know as I do not live there. The only times I have been on the range were for a class. I have interacted with some of his guys and went with a group of them to the National Tactical Invitational , but I have never had a class they have taught. So as a resident range user or retail store customer I really cannot speak with any authority as I do not live there ...but as to the quality of instruction I can tell you it is absolutely top notch.

Spiffy, check your PM.

There is a lot more to do. The trigger guard is in the wrong place so it will have to be moved to install the pistol grip. Here is what I recommend.....determine why you want an AK. Just to plink with? Get a WASR. Buy it in person and check fit and finish. Buy some ammo and you are done. It will work fine (in all likelihood) and will be accurate enough to hit cans and bottles at 100 yards or so. Do you want it for a SHTF/Home Defense gun? Get an AK parts kit,(yes they are expensive now...) a receiver from either Elk River or NODAK Spud and whatever furniture you want to put on it and send it to Jim Fuller at Rifledynamics. Other guys may build a more "historicly correct" or "Museum piece" AK, but NOBODY builds a better gun for serious social purposes. Will it take 6 months to get? Yes. Will it end up costing almost $1000 ? Yes. But will you have the smoothest, most accurate, most reliable AK pattern rifle you can get? Yes. There is a reason Fuller is always so far behind.Those who know his work generally have multiple guns built..... Another alternative is that K-var is now selling converted Saigas now for less than you can get one converted from most places like Rifledynamics or RedJacket in Inrange. They also have Arsenal SLR 107s for sale for about $850. They are fine. Better than a WASR, not nearly as nicely finished or as good a trigger as a gun built by Jim Fuller, but perfectly serviceable nonetheless. This is the route I'd go if I were impatient. Thanks for the plug on Warriortalk. I guess we kind of are the "AK people". But that is just from putting in the work with the system and learning all the nuances of it. Good luck with your AK acquisition.

Well OK then. If it worries folks that much then give me your defective glocks and go buy a revolver..with a safety...and keep it unloaded....and locked in a safe...in a bank deposit box.....in another town.... Here is a clue...guns go off when you pull the trigger.Imagine that. If you did not mean to pull the trigger then it is YOUR fault not the gun's ...they do not just "go off". If you use the trigger as a "finger rest" you are eventually gonna shoot yourself or someone else accidentally. Have the authors of that hit piece ever fired a glock? Or anything else for that matter?

Welcome, I'm from Chattanooga and my wife is from Sale Creek.

Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom used the buddy system too...... I'll stick with carrying something I can effectively fight with.

Welcome aboard from another Chattanoogan. I would seriously reconsider the permit if you are likely to ever be carrying in public. The days of cops looking the other way on that is over. And while you MIGHT be OK legally IF you actually have to shoot someone(doctrine of competing harms) there is just such a huge downside to being caught carrying without a permit in public(think traffic stop) that the risk far outweighs any reward. I am as pro gun , and pro freedom as anyone drawing breath, but the law is clear and the Tennessee state constitution is clear too. Until the law changes, I'd be sure I had permit if I were going to carry in public.

Tried to go back in. It still would not allow it.Cannot edit the post to make it have paragraph breaks.This looks like a telegram............ AHA!!!!!!!!! Figured it out...damn security settings....

why would that previous post show up as one big paragragh? Instead of several differnet ones?Like this one I am typing?Is it becasue of the quote?Or is there an internal issue with the forum? This post did the same thing.....how odd....

Honestly, one of the problems with modern "gun culture" is the belief that since you have a gun there is no need to know how to fight with your hands.Almost like the gun is a magic talisman that wards off evil. That just sets people up for a big bad surprise. If the attack comes before you have your gun in hand and enough distance so that the gun is the appropriate answer, then things are very likely to go very badly if you have no hand to hand skills and no appreciation of reaction time and distance intervals. That stuff has to be experienced.It cannot be learned from a book or video. If the shooting style (foot and hip orientation) someone is teaching is NOT similar to their hand to hand style, then I'd be concerned that what you are learning is maybe only applicable when no one is trying to hurt you back. Under extreme stress your body will naturally want to do certain things. Best to build your weapon skills around that, not modify your body structure and movements around the weapon. If your skills sets (empty hand , knife, stick, gun) are integrated along the same structures then you will be much more efficient with your training time and much more likely to actually perform it under stress. I am in no way affiliated with Ben, but I do agree with much of what he is saying.

Thanks for finally posting that. That was a well written review.This event (along with the National Tactical Invitational) is the premier training event in the US. Unfortunately I had to miss it this year, but plan to make it next year. One comment you made about not shooting a single round, but learning a lot about other areas was spot on.This is something that anyone SERIOUS about their complete personal defense package would be wise to consider. Shooting is not the only skill we need to master. We need to work the other skills too, not just trigger finger and we need to engage in interactive training, not just all square range cardboard target marksmanship training...most people spend 95% of their time working on the LAST 5% of the solution. Good on ya for getting some excellent integrated multi dimensional training at a very low price.

Would Thelma Harper feel better if Steve Mcnair had been pushed down the stairs? Or would that lead to making 2 story houses illegal?....what a tool.

OK with the LIMITED amount of info we have...... 1. No description of lighting conditions. What time is it? 2. No description of whether there are other vehicles (mine) parked in the driveway. 3. NO DESCRIPTION of the robber. Is he 5'6 110lbs or he 6'6 300lbs? Is he heavily muscled or is he just heavy? 4. Is he wearing his "gang uniform"? 5. Is he visibly armed? ie bulging gun shaped "lump" under his shirt ? 6. What ethnicity is he? 7.What is the prevailing legal climate regarding self defense in my part of the state? That makes a BIG difference. 8. Are there any neighbors outside? These are 8 things that I came up with off the top of my head that all were NOT listed in the OP but will have some effect on things. And those 8 things will change to one degree or another the way I would react to the situation. So lets fill in some blanks...... If it is dark I would have flashlight out palmed and light up the car ordering him out.FIRST I would make sure that there were no accomplices hiding behind the other cars (if any) or by the house BEFORE I approach him. It is all fun and games until you get jumped from behind.... Assuming I am positive he is alone, and darkness, I would light up the car with the light and VERY LOUDLY, so that the neighbors are alerted, order him out of the car and off my property while I stand at the edge of cover ...remember he MAY have a gun. They tend to NOT like to be spot lighted and have attention drawn to them. So I would use the light to illuminate what he is doing. I would NOT draw my gun yet though. IF he complies fine, let him go. Give a description to the cops when they get here 27 minutes from now and file a report with my insurance. Now, IF he is NOT obeying then I have a decision to make....do I go pepper spray him or do I go try to physically remove him or do I just do nothing and wait? Here is where the more you know the less likely you are to want to lay hands on him.... Let's say he is secretly armed with a knife like I am right now. In under 2 seconds I can access it from my belt and pop a ballon taped to the neck of a target an arms reach away. If you go to clamp on to him and give him the heave ho and he comes out with the knife and you do not see it you could be done before you even realize that was not just a punch to your jugular but a stab.......so I'm VERY hesitant to go hands on unless I HAVE to. Are you willing to DIE for a radio? I'm not. Or let us say I did NOT make sure he was alone. I go to grab him and he just wraps me up and his buddy steps in from behind and shanks me with a rusty butcher knife...nice. Hope that ambulance can get here faster than the cops do.... Now let us say he just explodes from the car and tries to tackle me? I sprawl avoiding the low tackle or go to my default cover to counter a high strike to the head(a technique used to cover your head and to keep from getting knocked down or knocked out) then work for better position and do whatever I have to do to effectively stop his agression. Think Knees elbows chinjabs hammerfists and takedowns followed by bouncing his head off the pavement if I have to. But again I have a very narrow window because if he is armed with a knife and gets a chance to access it I will probably get cut or stabbed the longer this goes. And the longer it goes the more likely he is to find my gun and now I'm in a retention situation not just handing out a casual ass beating.....I know how much it sucks to be wrestling over a gun with someone. Not something you want to be real the first time you try it. Again, I'm not pulling my gun unless I HAVE to. The OP was kind of ambiguous on that. He made it sound like you DID have it out already. I would not draw it until I could articulate WHY I felt in danger of grave bodily injury or death... So let us make the BG 6'6 300 lbs and he gets out of the car with a wrench in hand and steps toward me. There is a VERY good chance he is going to get shot. If he is 5'6 and gets out with a knife...same story. But until he presents a weapon I am not in fear of grave bodily injury or death so NO GUN .....yet. But NONE of this stuff was in the OP so it was difficult to answer THAT limited question. The problem is you can LOOK at a situation's backstory (light conditions,proximity of cover,proximity of innocent bystanders,size and assumed ability of the BG etc etc) and make judgement in split SECONDS that would take PAGES to explain on the web.... I assume EVERY potential adversary to be 1. Armed with knife and gun 2. Trained with both 3. MMA trained 4.TMA trained 5. In better shape than I am 6. To not care whether he lives or dies 7. to HAVE AN ACCOMPLICE (or 2) So I build my responses around these worse case scenarios NOT around the likely 110 pound meth head looking to score $20. And in so doing I have a set of responses that solve COMPLEX problems along with the basic problems. But maybe I should just rush out and stomp him.... You see the original question was the equivilant of asking "how do I get out of it when dude gets inside my guard and starts working ground and pound?" Simple question? Right? No. Tha answer depends on many variables not set forth in the question...am I armed? Is he armed? Do I have friends there? Does HE have friends there? Are THEY armed? Do I know this guy? Why are we fighting? Is this a fight on the parkng lot stemming from a robbery attempt or is this a Thanksgiving misunderstanding between politically opposed family members ? Any logical person can see how these all would affect how we would react...Context is king. If you want to rush in an pummel him fine.If you are confident in your ability to the point that you will risk your life to proactively lay hands on an opponent of unknown skill and unknown armament then that may be the right answer FOR YOU. I hope that works for you, but I've seen it not work enough times to be really hesitant to lay hands on people I do not HAVE to. However I fear it would NOT be the right answer for the vast majority of normal folks who read this forum. That is why I said Packinmama (pepper spray) and Good Steward (Release the hounds!) might have the best answers. I'm not ready to die or put myself in a potentially deadly situation that can go really bad really fast over a car stereo.....But your mileage may vary.....and this stuff is about life and death...cute little bumper sticker answers don't cut it when someone's life might be endangered by the answers you give.....

Wow...........I suggest people actually take a second and THINK before they rush into laying hands on someone of unknown ability and you call me a "condescending expert"? Well.....O.K. then........... I never suggested any course of action because as I stated in the post there are too many variables unmentioned in the original premise. Oh and we also are JUST ASSUMING that he is alone...... I merely suggested that there are seriously bad dudes out there. And that MOST poeple reading this forum honestly would not fit into that category. And that if your gun does not frighten someone then that might be a clue that this guy is not just a 16 year old punk. I also CLEARLY STATED that if you are physically skilled to the point that you are confident about going hands on with someone of unknown ability that my suggestion to THINK FIRST before rushing in to deliver a beat down does not apply to you.

Too many variables not explained in the original post but so far Good Steward or Packinmama probably has the best answer. For those of you who are certified card carrying bad asses this does not apply, but to the rest of the world.... when is the last time you administered a beat down to someone? When is the last time you tried to administer a beat down to someone who DID NOT CARE that you were armed? MIght he just be a smart ass who does not think you will use it? Maybe. Might he be a BAD ass who has beaten people down and taken guns from people before? MAYBE. You just do not know. You know there is video of convicts working on disarms in prison yards..... So on that note how many of us here have actually gotten some kind of training in disarms, retention, In Fight Weapons Access, and are comfortable enough with their ability to go hands on with someone of UNKNOWN ability ? Who might also be armed, and who is NOT afraid of you....For all we know this guy may be the "student of the month" at the local MMA gym, who was actually in a REAL fight maybe as recently as yesterday, Who gets in REAL fights with other real bad guys regularly and who right now might also be armed with a knife or gun or who knows what.... Again if you are reading this and you make Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, Paul Sharp, Tom Sotis and Leo Gaje cry, then disregard...but if you are not in that category..and that includes most everyone....I'd SERIOUSLY think twice before approaching someone by yourself and laying hands on them ESPECIALLY if they are not afraid of your gun.....

Loaded, you have PM.

Jason, Check your PM.

Please consider becoming a supporting vendor before you pimp your wares here. You will not be warned again.

Chapman actually passed away last year.

I was actually referring to the state law. But you know what? You want to be safe from the Lafollette ordnance? Don't go to Lafollette.

But with a HCP the gun is OK and if you are certified in the use of a club or baton the club is OK.....the knife however still has to be 4" or less.....

I just voted. Still 94% for less restrictions.

Which puts the 7th and 9th circuits in conflict from the 9th circuit's ruling a few weeks back.....We would expect the 9th to say no and the 7th to say yes, but it is the other way around..how odd.