A Review of the David Goldman, SBR Form 1 and Trust Route.

[TNRat]

I finally got this off my plate and in the hands of the government. Now the wait begins. Below is the route I took in chronological order:

• November, 2012 - David Goldman Trust Setup - Normally it costs $700 for Goldman to set up a trust but last November he had a black Friday special running for $500 for the same package. I talked with wife and son about this and decided to go for it. My reasoning was that two lawyers, one certified in my home state and the other a purported expert in the NFA industry regarding gun trusts would be working on the project with very little time on my part. With the discount I am basically getting a free tax stamp;
• December, 2012 - Goldman and I discussed the issue with my wife and son having access to the vault and what happens in the event of my/our deaths. After only a couple of emails going back and forth he sends basic docs that answer most questions by first week in December;
• January, 2013 - The fall out from Sandy Hook starts and scuttlebutt has it all Class 3 will be banned by Executive Order. I have no better info so I decide to hold onto my $200 for now;
• June, 2013 - Some of the danger has passed but I have way to much going on to sit down and look over more paperwork;
• November, 15, 2013 - I contact Goldman and notify him of my intentions to proceed. He cautions me to do so BEFORE 12/09/13 since that is when the ATF is expected to change procedure and Trusts and make it required for everyone, including Trust trustees, to submit CLEO signature, photo and prints. Mind you the feds said they were considering doing away with CLEO signature althogether but this turns out to be wrong. It is unknown whether ATF will grandfather in all applicants that submit before 12/09/13. It is unknown whether any proposed changes will take place. Time will tell;
• November 22, 2013 - First date I am able to get all three of us to the bank to sign docs and set up separate account for Trust. This takes approximately 90 minutes since bank has to work with others on how exactly the account will be set up for trust;
• November 26, 2013 - Scanned all docs and submitted to Goldman in PM. They reviewed for accuracy by next AM. This is the day I discover a CLEO in TN is bound by law to sign off in 15 days or communicate why you are not allowed to own something of this nature. This was one concern I had but not the largest concern so I move forward with the trust route anyway;
• November 27, 2013 - Did a small amount of reading on how to submit electronically. Started process and was finished in about one hour. Process is somewhat difficult but doable. Paid with card. Account was dinged immediately once process was validated and submitted. By submitting via the eforms I have saved anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months, depending upon whom you talk with.

Summary - I wish I had had better info in January regarding the political situation and whether the President can outlaw something that fast by EO alone. Had I known better I would have submitted the paperwork in January regardless of the political situation.

 

I would do the Goldman trust route again. He makes it painless, reviews your needs, consults with a lawyer certified in your state to make certain everything is legal in your state and is on retainer to answer questions regarding the process. I do not ever want to invest the amount of time it would have taken me to dig into setting up my own trust. It was well worth the money, especially when you consider it is a one time expense. Assuming there are no dramatic changes after 12/09/13 I just repeat the process for a can, another SBR, or the SBS I have always wanted.

 

At the moment I strongly suggest you go the "Class 3" route for something, anything, ASAP. If you are talking about turning your AR into an SBR put off the purchase of an accessory until you have the SBR paperwork submitted. Don't want to pay $200 in taxes? Find a Mossberg Cruiser shotgun and pay the $5 AOW tax. Class 3 stuff is a big commitment. It does involve more money, bonafide registration with the government, and more hassle on your part. However, I truly believe the end result is one declaring ourselves to have faith in the system and a steadfast resolve to support our industry, the whole thing. This simple act says we have the courage to not hide in the shadows but be proud of the fact that we are part of this culture, our heritage. I hope you will join me in supporting our country no matter what trust/cleo route you decide to take or what type of item you decide to buy.

[TNRat]

I forgot to add:

 

All of this was so I will be able to SBR a Spike's Tactical AR15 lower. Upper will be 10.2 inch Noveske with NSR rail in 300 Blackout.

[c.a.willard]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but those E forms may not have saved you any time.  From my understanding the NFA Branch has stopped processing trusts for now until after the changes take effect.  Something about it would save them work in the long run.  I'm sure one of the more knowledgeable NFA folks will be along soon with more clarity, or you could check with the processor to see if the pause on trusts is factual.

[Guest semiautots]

Just got back 2 Form 4's for SBR's that were approved November 19 on a trust.

[TNRat]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but those E forms may not have saved you any time.  From my understanding the NFA Branch has stopped processing trusts for now until after the changes take effect.  Something about it would save them work in the long run.  I'm sure one of the more knowledgeable NFA folks will be along soon with more clarity, or you could check with the processor to see if the pause on trusts is factual.

The eforms saved me a great deal of time in having to hand write, seal up and deliver the paperwork so while I understand where you are coming from I would use that route again instead of the hard copy route. I also was able to submit LESS paperwork than someone mailing in their forms. When forms are being processed the eforms also save you anywhere from 2 weeks to a few months as stated above. At a minimum you have to wait for the mail to arrive at the Branch, the check to be deposited and cleared by the bank before reaching the submitted stage. I know I am splitting hairs when we could be talking about an 18 month wait but what the heck. 17 months and 1 weeks is better than 18 months. :)

 

Regarding the NFA Branch having stopped processing, do you have a press release or something else besides the rumor mill on that point? I have heard the rumor and have not seen evidence that it was untrue, but likewise don't have anything validating that situation. Rather than tie up the system by stopping a processor to discuss this on the phone I think I will just wait for the fireworks next month. Since I have already saved a couple of weeks with the eforms I have a couple to spare before I have to wait for the 18 months. Who knows what'll happen.

[TNRat]

Just got back 2 Form 4's for SBR's that were approved November 19 on a trust.

I am not familiar with the entire process. Would this mean they are in fact processing trusts during the public response date, or is it possible your forms were approved before the discussion started in September and it took that long for the Branch to mail it to you?

[TGO David]

I'd use someone like Chip Cain who's a sponsor of this site and a Tennessee resident.

[dlm37015]

yes Chip can get the job done right the first time

[Mark A]

I am in the process of finishing up a trust with Chip. It has been very easy on my part and he is easy to deal with.

I'm just really hoping this money isn't wasted.

So another endorsement for Chip.

Mark

[TNRat]

I'd use someone like Chip Cain who's a sponsor of this site and a Tennessee resident.

I have never heard the name. Can you post up a link? If he does a good job I don't mind recommending him as well.

[rocketman]

I have never heard the name. Can you post up a link? If he does a good job I don't mind recommending him as well.

 

Google is your friend........Google his name and NFA