world power shifting...

[Guest 44M]

just read this on the European news web site

"crisis is more and more shaking European countries.Goverments of Belgium,Neiterland and Luxemburg had to nacionalize "Fortis", one of the biggest world banks and insurance companies.They provided a bailout in the amount of 11 billion Euros. The same happend to Bradford&Bingley in Great Britain. German Hypo Realestate Group had saved itself at the last moment getting a financial help from other banks.Markets is reacting in panic on the bad news.Because of the fear of this crisis spreading bank shares of European banks are falling all over the Europe."

what is happening is way,way more bigger than I ever tought, it is not a mortgage meltdown or 700 billion dollars bail out, or some Fanny or Fredie,as I first tought (and my God,was I wrong) it is, my friends, movement of the world powers, power is shifting from the old (USA,England,France,Germany etc..) to the new (China,Japan,Korea etc...) parts of the world..there is really not much we can do about that, we are witnesses of the historic changes, power shifting (happend few times before in history), we can only hope that everything will be done peacefully and without any crazy moves..how long will it last..?? probably about a decade or so, I belive that in 2020 we will have very different picture of the world powers than what we have today....just sit tight and enjoy...

Db

Edited September 30, 2008 by 44M

[Guest Major Pain]

+1, we're gonna see a show, a very scary show. The power shift has been building for several years. I just hope all the idiots can keep there fingers off the buttons.--MP

[Guest 44M]

The power shift has been building for several years

yes, you are right, little by little, step by step and the time has finaly come...

if you pay attention to the markets of China,Japan,Korea etc... you will see that there is no any major crissis going on...in Japan banks don`t even pay interests to their customers, mortgage loans are interest free same as many other loans (if not all)...on the one side we have islamic countries with their power coming from the oil and in the other hand we have financial giants like China and Japan..I don`t believe that oil will prevail, because Japanese technology will,pretty soon, be developed enough where cars and other vehicles will use something other than oil, and Japan or China wont want to be depending on foreign oil...if anyone is looking to move any time soon and make a change of life, the right move would be moving to Japan or China I believe, I believe that ,that part of the world will see growing prosperity and huge jump in life standard for the next few hundered years...

ps

the old capitalism or socialism sistems are gone, they will end up in dust before we know it, the new sistems are emarging (SP?) sistems where banks and goverments and people work all together for everyones good, banks will charge no interestes, goverment will control and financialy help corporations, people will work hard because they will have a chance to prosper and have better life etc...the new society order is getting born as we speak...

Edited September 30, 2008 by 44M

[Daniel]

I dont have a problem with other countries being the big dogs.

[Guest 44M]

I dont have a problem with other countries being the big dogs.

no, me neither, it`s just a natural process that repeats ever so often, and there is nothing we can do about that anyway...I just think it will be very interesting to watch what happends...I`m glad that I can now stop to search for someone to blame for our situation in US, this is a world wide event and all of the countries will be affected by it, some in good way and some in not that good way....

Db

[Daniel]

Asian and Pacific stock markets tumbled in early trading Tuesday after the U.S. House of Representatives failed to adopt a $700 billion bailout measure, triggering a huge drop in U.S. stocks.

Japan's Nikkei Index was down nearly 550 points - or 4.6% - at 11,199.02, two hours into the trading session. The Australian Securities Exchange was down nearly 150 points - or 3.8% - to 4,560.9.

The Hang Seng index in Hong Kong opened more than 5% lower.

Looks like those asian markets arent so bulletproof.

[Guest 44M]

yeah, we need to keep eye on the rest of the world right now and see whats going on...I`m not suprised that they got hit too, it is a world wide financial shock wave...I don`t know, I may be wrong, it was just my opinion but I could very well be wrong...

I would love to know how is China doing right now...?

[Guest Grout]

May you live in interesting times.

[fury2neon]

ps

the old capitalism or socialism sistems are gone, they will end up in dust before we know it, the new sistems are emarging (SP?) sistems where banks and goverments and people work all together for everyones good, banks will charge no interestes, goverment will control and financialy help corporations, people will work hard because they will have a chance to prosper and have better life etc...the new society order is getting born as we speak...

Dude, are you alright?

By the way for capitalism to have failed it must be tried first.

Every time government has stepped in to make sure that it will never be truly tried.

[Guest hrminer92]

Japan does charge interest rates on their mortgages, but they are very low (2-3% range). Their consumer type loans are capped at 29.2%, but it's been estimated that 1/4 of Japanese owe money to loan sharks who charge whatever they want. Also, Japan went through a similar real estate based banking crisis in the 1990s and spent $440 billion to bail their system out.

China has a very export oriented economy, so if the economies of the western nations tank, their economy goes down too. They don't have the internal demand for their products in order to sustain many of these industries. The same is true for other Asian nations.

[Guest unreconstructed1]

we are definitely moving towards some...interesting times.

what I believe however isn't that it'll be so much of a regional power shift, as it will be a control shift. As the worlds economy tumbles farther and farther down into the outhouse, we'll see government stepping in more and more. already, Bush and several legislators have began working towards bail out plan 2, since the first one failed. the FED reserve and several other world central banks have began to work together dumping oney across international lines in order to bail out each others economies ( the FED dumped several billion dollars in liquid assets into some other countries economies here recently, and IIRC vice-versa what we are going to see is the emergence of a world central bank, and as more and more countries tank, they will give more and more power to the U.N.

I believe that this will spark revolutions and civil wars in some nations, as much of the population resists the transition to a central government.

In the end, either the U.N. will win, or the nationalists will win.

[Warbird]

China, Japan, and Korea all depend greatly on the US for their own strength. There is no shift in power. Europe's problem is dwindling populations. Japan's economy is fragile right now, they have been in a recession for several years. As was said they had huge bailouts less than 10 years ago. To qualify for one of those low interest loans would eliminate all but a small population in this country.

Not only is China export dependent but most of their government investment income is investment in the US as is Japan with investment and real estate. Those country's face huge problems if we go down into a slump. A huge majority of China's exports are to the US.

[Guest 44M]

By the way for capitalism to have failed it must be tried first

???..I don`t think I understand....

Those country's face huge problems if we go down into a slump

those countries are buying all the oil they can get their hands on in front of our nose ...and if China tomorow decide to cash out all the treasury bonds we gave them as a coleteral for the money we borowed from them, we are bankrupt...done...finito la musica...

Db

[Guest unreconstructed1]

???..I don`t think I understand....

Db

the basic gist of his statement is that even in America, the supposedly capitalist nation that it is, the government has it's hand in virtually every aspect. regulating this and setting that... etc. to be quite honest, America is far more Socialist than most folks would ever want to admit.

[Guest 44M]

k, I see now, thanks for clearing it up for me...as far as Asian market goes, I gues I was wrong, it looks like they are not bullet proof after all...

Japanese financial companies and industries dependent on exports, such as steel, were especially hard hit Monday. Nippon Steel Corp. stock tumbled 9.8 percent, while Mizuho Financial Group was down 8.3 percent in morning trading.

Trading in mainland China resumed after a weeklong holiday break with the benchmark Shanghai Composite Index sinking 3.5 percent to 2,213 by midday.

Banks and other financial shares saw heavy declines. Shanghai Pudong Development Bank fell 7 percent and Bank of China slipped 3.6.

Shares of Ping An Insurance Co. rose even after it said Monday it will record a $2.3 billion loss on its stake in European bank Fortis in the biggest blow yet to a Chinese institution from the global credit crisis

Db

[Guest nraforlife]

Hope our grandkids don't damn us when they piss on our graves

[Oh Shoot]

... power is shifting from the old (USA,England,France,Germany etc..) to the new (China,Japan,Korea etc...) parts of the world.....

Guess it depends on what you read when. How about this, just a few days ago:

As Japan's Economy Falters, New Premier Vows Swift Action

Prime Minister Taro Aso speaks to the lower house in Tokyo on Monday. Aso has announced plans to cut taxes and increase government spending. (By Haruyoshi Yamaguchi -- Bloomberg News)

By Blaine Harden

Washington Post Foreign Service

Wednesday, October 1, 2008; Page A12

TOKYO, Oct. 1 -- As Wall Street gyrated this week between panic and hope, dismal new data in Japan showed that the world's second-largest economy, already contracting, has almost certainly fallen into recession....

etc, from Washington Post online:

http://tinyurl.com/4x9a3v

- OS

[musicman]

from I understand China has been in a slump as well, and since the Olympics they haven't really been buying oil or other materials in any great amount... much less than they had been over the last year. They were on a tear for the Oly's, trying to make a good impression to the world. Now that's over, and they've watsed billions.

[Guest Dragonman]

China and India both have very high inflation now. Chinas' unemployment numbers are much higher than the official numbers and corruption is much more rampant than they admit. Don't think many major economic players around the world aren't affected by these financial problems you read about on a daily basis. Most countries in Europe reported negative economic growth this year and Japan still hasn't fully recovered from their financial meltdown of the 90s. Wonder how many similarities between the current crop of economic problems and the economic problems of 1929 there are. Hopefully the same results of 1929-1945 won't occur.

[Guest Boomhower]

Good thoughts/debate so far.

But I have to agree. If we go down, they go down as well.....

[Oh Shoot]

Good thoughts/debate so far.

But I have to agree. If we go down, they go down as well.....

And vice versa.

It doesn't take too many of "them" failing to bring everything down.

It ain't yer grandfather's economy anymore.

- OS

[Guest Major Pain]

Its already worldwide. Australia dropping interest rates, Russia loaning large amounts of money to major banks, England doing same thing, Iceland taking over some major banks, hang on for the ride, hope its not to ugly.--MP

[Guest unreconstructed1]

It ain't yer grandfather's economy anymore.

- OS

actually that's the scary part, it is starting to look more and more exactly like the economy that my pappaw was born into. the economy of the late 20s/early 30's

[Oh Shoot]

actually that's the scary part, it is starting to look more and more exactly like the economy that my pappaw was born into. the economy of the late 20s/early 30's

Yeah, you're right.

I was thinking of MY grandfather's time.

I often forget I've entered codger status.

- OS

[Guest db99wj]

Its already worldwide. Australia dropping interest rates, Russia loaning large amounts of money to major banks, England doing same thing, Iceland taking over some major banks, hang on for the ride, hope its not to ugly.--MP

Yep, this is a gobal issue. Great Britan put together a rescue package, the rate cut of a 1/2 point this morning was done in conjunction with other countries, a Global Rate Cut, Russia has suspended trading until Friday, and other countries have suspended trading...This thing is pretty bad.

And this could be worse than the Great Depression, not if you look economic vs economic but our grandparents could handle and make due a whole helluva lot better than we (as a general population) can.

TN is suppose to have great deer season this year....might want to go and get a couple in the freezer. Hmmm, I might start deer hunting again.

Edited October 8, 2008 by db99wj