Active Duty Military

[Daniel]

If you call small arms training firing 15 rounds from an M9 and 10 rounds from a fake (pneumatic) shotgun, then yes, they had firearm training, and in that respect, I say TN's training requirements exceeds the Navy's requirement for firearm training. As far as other services, wouldn't know, haven't been there. As far as being in the military meaning you are qualified for combat, I don't buy into that either. I know plenty of people who would sh*t themselves if they were shot at and would likely shoot a friendly rather than shoot the bad guy. Maybe times have changed since you were in, but the training requirements for small arms are rather pitiful, as far as the Navy is concerned.

For the last couple years at least, navy personnel being deployed to iraq have went through Ft Jackson and been trained on BRM by army drill sgts. I have been to two nco courses there and both times the place was full of swabbies getting some range time.

[Guest bkelm18]

For the last couple years at least, navy personnel being deployed to iraq have went through Ft Jackson and been trained on BRM by army drill sgts. I have been to two nco courses there and both times the place was full of swabbies getting some range time.

Well yes, thats the point I've been making, it depends on the training, which, is not uniform throughout the military.

[Guest bkelm18]

No one knows what they will do until it happens.

I had been in the military and had two honorable discharges and didn’t know what I would do when I was shot at; until it happened to me as a cop on the streets. Do you know what you will do? Do you think you are prepared to live through it?

Nope, I don't know. But I know how to handle a firearm and I know the laws regarding carrying a weapon in the civilian world. Joe Blow the galley rat might not. So, until the military requires standard weapons training in every branch that equals or betters that which you would get in the civilian world, I in no way support lowering the age requirement for HCPs simply because one serves in the military. And thats all I have to say about that.

[DaveTN]

So, until the military requires standard weapons training in every branch that equals or betters that which you would get in the civilian world, I in no way support lowering the age requirement for HCPs simply because one serves in the military. And thats all I have to say about that.

Well, obviously you make a valid point, as I said our legislators feel the same way you do.

But me…. I read the following somewhere, I don’t remember exactly where but maybe you have seen it.

Definition of a Veteran:

A veteran - whether active duty, reserve, national guard or retired - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life." - That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

If they are old enough to write that check…. They are part of a special group and get special privileges. They are far more special than a group of 21 year olds that sit on their hands and their claim to fame is they haven’t been arrested and went to a range for 8 hours of smoking and joking.

But our state legislators don’t see it that way and our Federal legislators don’t have the sack to stand up for their boys. Yes.... I understand it.

[Fallguy]

+1

I don't see any problem with a 18+ soldier carrying a rifle or sidearm in the lines of his duty/job, while either overseas or at his home base. But exempting him from Federal law, to carry while off base or off duty, is too much IMO. He or she can wait until their 21st birthday, like everyone else.

Just my $0.02.

Federal law only says someone under 21 can not purchase a handgun, it doesn't say they can't carry one. In many states those under 21 can get a permit see here. In several states that allow OC without a permit 18 year olds can carry, even younger than 18 in some.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Fallguy

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I was already aware of the gun laws. The OP asked about TN law, or rather the military duty possibly bypassing said law. That was where my reply was aimed, with the 21 yr old comment... even though I supposed I should have said "state" law.

[Punisher84]

So if I re-enlist can I do whatever I want because I'm special? I like the sound of that.. Hey Mr. Legislator I'm friggin' special!

[Guest Mugster]

No, but a 17-18 year old soldier should enjoy full citizenship with full adult privileges. Kinda like, hey, you can go get killed but you've got to sit in the back of the bus when you get home.

I was in this boat 20 years ago, commissioned officer, USAR, at 19. I could lead a platoon of tanks and call arty, arrest people with no cause, but not drink beer? Yeah right, that makes perfect sense.

[Punisher84]

No, but a 17-18 year old soldier should enjoy full citizenship with full adult privileges. Kinda like, hey, you can go get killed but you've got to sit in the back of the bus when you get home.

I was in this boat 20 years ago, commissioned officer, USAR, at 19. I could lead a platoon of tanks and call arty, arrest people with no cause, but not drink beer? Yeah right, that makes perfect sense.

I agree that it makes sense to a degree. My problem is blanket immunity to anyone who volunteers. Not everyone in the military receives handgun training, quite a few never touch a rifle again until they go through deployment training.

I say let military ID lower the drinking age to 18 and if you are under 21, in the military, and can show the equivalent of training in the military to that of the civilian sector, plus a sign-off from your CO or something you could get a handgun permit.

I think that'd be plausible. Still wouldn't help them alot though when it comes to practice because I know a few ranges that you must be 21 to shoot without parent or legal guardian, no exceptions.

[DaveTN]

My problem is blanket immunity to anyone who volunteers.

They are a “Special Groupâ€.

Off the top of my head I can’t think of any group that deserves special privileges more than active duty volunteers.

Not everyone in the military receives handgun training, quite a few never touch a rifle again until they go through deployment training.

As opposed to the magnificent training you get in a carry class?? We have all seen the people or heard the stories of those that can’t pass the shooting qualification but get their permit anyway.

I say let military ID lower the drinking age to 18 and if you are under 21, in the military, and can show the equivalent of training in the military to that of the civilian sector, plus a sign-off from your CO or something you could get a handgun permit.

I say play the Federal trump card and tell the state to go pound sand. The same way they did with the LEOSA.

I think that'd be plausible. Still wouldn't help them alot though when it comes to practice because I know a few ranges that you must be 21 to shoot without parent or legal guardian, no exceptions.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a range owner that would turn away active duty military because of their age.

[Guest TheGiant]

So active duty military should not feel as safe on the streets of (insert Town) as they do in Baghdad because they are under 21 and not allowed to carry?

If you step up and server for me it is the least I can do is try to get the rights and privileges for you that you put your ass on the line for. ....Just my take. I know not everyone is ready for a CP at 18 or even 40 but I think the military is just an exception at least most of them.

[wjh2657]

I didn't have to worry about it. I spent my 19th birthday in Saigon. Could drink all I wanted and they gave me my own gun. I killed my first human being two weeks later. Check with your First Sergeant, maybe he can get you a similar deal. There was a small catch to the deal. We started with 6 teams of 2 (12 Marines) but only two of us came home. They didn't even find the other guys bodies. Enjoy your life, 21 will come around soon enough!

[Punisher84]

I think you would be hard pressed to find a range owner that would turn away active duty military because of their age.

I can name several as well as several "renowned" training academies. Don't believe me call around and ask.

If you think joining the military makes you special you're right. It entitles you to put on the uniform of the greatest country in the world and defend it from all enemies foreign and domestic.

I got plenty of friends that died before they ever got to drink their first beer in a bar with me. You want special privileges quit whining on a forum and write your congressman. Maybe they'll help a brotha out.

I will concede that handgun permit requirements are a joke, but at least there are minimum requirements. If you want to make special circumstances for the troops I'll back it 100%, but if you think just because you VOLUNTARILY enlist you are entitled to some type of special treatment, you did it for the wrong damn reasons.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Punisher84

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Well said.

[Guest 270win]

Dont the bases serve alcohol to 18yr olds? I have heard they do or did in some places....kind of like how base liquor stores can sell on Sundays in states that don't allow liquor sales on Sunday.

I've heard the TN carry permit class is a joke. I was glad i did mine in Arkansas where it is five hours instead of eight. The nice thing about TN is i don't have to requalify like in AR when i renew.

[Daniel]

Dont the bases serve alcohol to 18yr olds? I have heard they do or did in some places....kind of like how base liquor stores can sell on Sundays in states that don't allow liquor sales on Sunday.

I've heard the TN carry permit class is a joke. I was glad i did mine in Arkansas where it is five hours instead of eight. The nice thing about TN is i don't have to requalify like in AR when i renew.

if you are in a country where the drinking age is 18 or nonexistent, then yes they can serve you. otherwise no.

[Fallguy]

Dont the bases serve alcohol to 18yr olds? I have heard they do or did in some places....kind of like how base liquor stores can sell on Sundays in states that don't allow liquor sales on Sunday.

I think back in the late 80's/early 90's they may have. Back when the laws where changing all over the country. My brother was in the Navy at that time and it seems I remember him saying it was up to the base commander.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Currently it's up to the host nation's laws. In the U.S., the drinking age for everyone is 21. In Germany, for example, the drinking age is like 16. Since all U.S. troops are 18+ years old, all of them could drink. Sure the base commander can prohibit the on-base consumption... but there's really not much they can do when the minors head out to the local economy.

It differs from country to country, depending on their own laws, as Junglist said.

This also lead to much trouble, and humorous times, when soliders (use to everyone that's drinking being 21+) go out to clubs and start hitting on chicks that are actually 16+ yrs old. They may look legal, but you better make sure.

[Fallguy]

Just to clarify, I was talking about the time frame when there were different drinking ages in different states in the US (but they were working on changing them all) and on bases within the US.

I remember in TN when they changed the age from 18 to 19, then about a year later they changed it from 19 to 21, but said all those that were already 19 & 20 could continue to legally drink. I could see how it could be a little confusing for some bouncers/cashiers.