E4 No More

[quote name='K191145' timestamp='1354033600' post='851342'] They had better be sure the person they intend to arrest is actually comitting a crime or this could come into play. [/quote]Agreed, but they'd better be sure of that anyways. I worked security from 1986 to 1989 with one year of that concurrent as a part-time police officer, and Missouri had no such law at that time. Don't know if they do now.

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1354031539' post='851318'] Here is a case similar to the Walmart one that resulted in charges of reckless homicide being filed: [url="http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/mar/31/accused-burglar-caught-held-choke-hold-dies-two-da/"]http://www.commercia...ld-dies-two-da/[/url] From the story: "I really can't comment on a pending case, but as a point of law you are not allowed to use deadly force to protect property -- only to protect yourself or another human being," Tom Henderson, administrative assistant in the Shelby County District Attorney's Office, said Thursday. [color=#ff0000]So is using a choke hold considered using deadly force?[/color] [/quote]Well, a choke hold, yes, but a neck restraint that people typically refer to as a choke hold wasn't back in the day. My martial arts instructor was the one who showed it to Sgt. Lindell of the KCPD, who later taught it widely as his technique, (the bastage!). When properly applied it doesn't choke the suspect but rather cuts-off the blood supply to the brain to cause the subject to pass-out long enough to be secured with handcuffs.

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1354030525' post='851306'] I would assume, however, than when a private citizen makes or attempts to make an arrest he/she takes on the same fiduciary responsibility for the accused's safety as does a police officer??? If so, and you "arrest someone" and he dies while in your care I think you are going to have a major problem (or at least a lot of explaining to do). [/quote]Can't speak to Tennessee because I don't have the motivation to research it, but yes, you have the same responsibilities and therefore some major s'plaining to do. In this case there's not enough information to come to any conclusion about what happened. Time will tell, I guess. I understand both sides of the camp, but at 52 years old myself I certainly take my age and general health into account before engaging in any activity. Dude may have had some health problems that he was aware of before he engaged in activity that was detrimental to said health condition. We just don't know the whole story. What I am in perfect agreement with is that I'm not crying over a thief's death.

Tennessee Law: [b]40-7-109. Arrest by private person -- Grounds. (a)[/b] A private person may arrest another: [b](1)[/b] For a public offense committed in the arresting person's presence; [b](2)[/b] When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in the arresting person's presence; or [b](3)[/b] When a felony has been committed, and the arresting person has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested committed the felony. [b]( [/b] A private person who makes an arrest of another pursuant to §§ 40-7-109 -- 40-7-115 shall receive no arrest fee or compensation for the arrest. .

The amount of speculation in here is amazing, and it's refreshing to see that the OP admits to his baggage and his seeing the world through colored lenses because of it. I guess I was one of the "Wannabe's" referred to by the OP. I worked security in Missouri having run the gamut of low risk to very high risk postings. The very high risk posting was working in the Westport district of Kansas City. This was a place that had 16 bars in 3 square blocks that even the KCPD didn't come into on the weekends without being dispatched, and they wouldn't [u]be[/u] dispatched when they were in blackout conditions, (the time that there were so many calls for serious felonies [u]in progress[/u] that they couldn't answer any lesser calls for many hours later). The KCPD was in blackout condition more than 3/4 of the weekends throughout the year. I could tell you that in the 2 years working there as opposed to the 5.5 years that I worked as a police officer that: I made more felony [u]and[/u] misdemeanor [u]arrests[/u] with a 100% conviction rate; I was assaulted and injured more times; I came half of a revolver's trigger pull from shooting someone to protect someone else from a baseball bat; I was respected by the police officers in the district enough that when they did handle something in that area that they called-off their back-up when I was present; I was a tested witness by the city court; or that the officers admired my courage to do such a job, but I doubt that would make a difference to someone who colors all security guards the same. Oh, and I did all of this for not much more than minimum wage at the time. This "Wannabe" later became a police officer of the quality that his Chief of Police would eventally comment that he wished his entire department was made-up of officers like me. I also quit the PD in part from knowledge of other officers doing crap what would make the experience of the OP's wife laughably miniscule by comparison.

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1353942010' post='850760'] [url="http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/19-11-2012/122849-obama_soviet_mistake-0/"]http://english.pravd...viet_mistake-0/[/url] It's sad when you hear things like this from a former commie. Putin's right. Good article from Pravda [/quote]"former" commie???

[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1353441274' post='848833'] [/quote]Ditto!

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1353440327' post='848824'] BB holes? Does that sound right either? And yes, Channel 4 has definitely been anti-gun leaning. [/quote]Well, I sent an email to Sutton telling him that he's over dramatic, and he modified the article without further comment.

[url="http://www.wsmv.com/story/20138019/tulip-grove-elementary-damaged-by-bb-gun"]http://www.wsmv.com/story/20138019/tulip-grove-elementary-damaged-by-bb-gun[/url] It seems that Scott Sutton is a drama queen here!!

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1353077213' post='846502'] Make sure you point your finger at the right place when people get angry. Even the Teamsters union wanted to accept a deal to keep their jobs. It was the rank and file and the local leadership who rejected it. They made their bed, and get to sleep in it. [/quote]Ummm, a Twinkie bed!

[quote name='Caster' timestamp='1352918376' post='845583'] Why not? Let's give them everything they want. The faster the drive it in the ground, the faster we can crucify them with public support. Give them all the judges and tax hikes they beg for and when it collapses around them, we can round them up and put them in slave labor camps or just rid the world of their excrement altogether. [/quote]No, not the judges. He appoints young ones that have decades in front of them.

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1352924981' post='845659'] I know that's not what we are talking about here but when I read a line like that I can't help think of the people who have been found guilty of rape or even of murder and sentenced to death then later, with DNA evidence not available when there were tried and convicted, showed that the guilty were not guilty at all. [/quote]This!!^^ It is not as rare as Dolomite suggests. Lying cops and prosecutorial misconduct have been pretty rampant over the decades. Not saying all do it, but as a former LEO I saw and talked to many who had no problem telling a lie under oath to get a conviction. Their logic was that if the criminal can lie then so can they. Seeing this was just one of the reasons that I got burned out!

I agree Lester's posts are great, but too long!

I'm kind of shocked at Alaska!

[quote name='Garufa' timestamp='1352765432' post='844536'] Why do Republicans continue to vote for this ignoramus? [/quote]I didn't!

The WH is just sending up test names to see the reaction to them. I wouldn't get too excited about it at this stage.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1352809993' post='844738'] Last Tuesday 59 MILLION people got off their azz and went to a polling place to show their dissatisfaction. They showed ID and signed their real names with their real addresses. It made no difference. What makes you think 650K people doing nothing more than clicking on a web link would send any kind of a message or that anyone would care? There isn’t going to be any secession by any state. Our government is not going to be overthrown by any radical forces because it is protected by Patriots. The only way you are going to change our government is at the polling place. Many of the middle class is too busy or too indifferent to vote. The poor and those living off the government are voting and they are voting for bigger monthly checks and free healthcare. Internet petitions are a joke. [/quote]You contradicted yourself here. If 59 million people didn't make a difference by their vote why would you send them out to vote? Just saying...

I saw that story, and it pisses me off!

[quote name='jwrench75' timestamp='1352563799' post='843091'] I'd post this story in several mustang/ford performance type forums. Then send 'ol Gus's boss an email with an attachment of his saying thanks to your employee's sub standard customer service I have posted my issue with your company's advertising practices and service after the sale to every performance web forum I could find so that thousands of other would be customers may avoid the same fate. Good luck with your future business, (or lack thereof). Good day Sir! [/quote]i did some of that. I posted the same on Team Shelby, SVTOA, and the BOSS forum.

[quote name='Ratfink' timestamp='1352584221' post='843288'] I've had good luck with saleen and hellion turbo systems. American muscle also is fantastic. [/quote]American Muscle had a big problem with trying to do a Team Shelby member that took the membership screaming bloody murder to correct.

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1352568197' post='843129'] So they have your parts [u]AND[/u] your money? If so then I would contact your district attorney. You need to be provided with one or the other or it is fraud. Dolomite [/quote]No, the last sentence I let ya'll know I got my money, otherwise I'd be a lot more hostile.

[quote name='oldmustangjunkie' timestamp='1352515079' post='842861'] Steeda has been suspect for years. Are you a member of SVTP? When I need parts for my Cobra, I search their board for recommendations and haven't been let down yet. [/quote]I am a member of SVTOA-Nashville.

Let me preface what I say about Steeda Autosports by letting you know that I have in excess of 8 years of sales experience and have owned/operated my own small business. No company is perfect, and thus I’ve had to deal with my fair share of dissatisfied customers over the years. Good companies are not simply measured by their ability to deliver their product at the agreed upon price; that is expected. Good companies are measured by how they treat their customers when things go wrong. Returns are a part of doing business, and every good business owner accepts this as part of the cost of doing business. They do not shift their responsibilities onto the customer. For $768.28, I bought a Cold Air Intake (CAI) and a SCT Tuner from Steeda Autosports for my 2013 BOSS Mustang. For the sake of brevity, let me point out that I stayed home from work 2 days to await two shipments, (I expected only one), that required signatures when I requested no signature required, and once I got the items they in no way performed to the level of which Steeda advertised. How badly they failed to perform is another story. Since I was clearly not getting what Steeda advertised, I received a return authorization from them that included a shipping label for [u]one[/u] box at 10 pounds when they had shipped me the items in two separate boxes. Given the shipping constraints applied to me by Steeda, I packed all the items into the box that the CAI came in since it was the bigger box. This was a tight fit that took some positioning, but I got them in, sealed the box, and dropped it off at the carrier. I confirmed that the box arrived at Steeda on October 18. By November 7, (almost 3 weeks later), I still had not received my refund, so I sent an email to Gus Irizarry asking where my refund was. Gus is the National Sales Manager for Steeda, and is who I was dealing with after the salesman proved unresponsive to the problem, so this isn’t just some low-level employee. Gus sent me a screenshot that the return was processed on October 24, (not refunded), and proceeded to chide me for not taking more care to pack their items for return, and claiming that the items were received, “…so damaged it was practically unsellable even as a takeoff/used part.” So here I have not received my refund in 2 weeks from it being processed, and now it’s my fault that the carrier damaged their product, (if it truly was damaged), because I utilized what Steeda provided me to pack and ship. Apparently, Steeda feels that, not only should I absorb the cost of being absent from work 2 days, I should also have paid even more money for a larger box and packing materials to ship their product back to them in the event the carrier decided to play box hockey during transit. When I wouldn’t accept responsibility, Gus refused further assistance and wrote the following, [color=#ff0000]“The only act of due care, or lack of it, has been your response and obvious lack of responsibility for at least returning our product in useable condition after we agreed to satisfy your requests. I’m going to go ahead and fully close your account in our invoice system and mark it ‘do not sell’ no further business relationship can continue between us. Good luck with all your endeavors.”[/color] So consider how this company treats customers when things go wrong before you spend your hard-earned money with them. The refund coincidentally turned up in my bank the very next day.

[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1352402139' post='841940'] Obama supporters are always good for a hug, unless you're wealthy, of course. [/quote] What I've always noticed from the left is that they are all about making others give up what they have for the benefit of what others do not as long as it's not them that has to give it up. I'd have a heck of a lot more respect for people such as Barbara Streisand if they felt strongly enough for their convictions that they sold all their assets and gave the money to the poor. They're just hypocrites!

[quote name='maroonandwhite' timestamp='1352402299' post='841942'] No. I don't agree with anything kesava said but wishing deep suffering on someones family is a bit much in my opinion. [/quote]Isn't that exactly what they are wishing upon others by their vote? None of them would shed a tear if Donald Trump, for example, lost everything and spent the rest of his days sleeping in a box. I put it in a more unpleasant manner on another forum.