PAULSHOOT

So far -- not for me. I like Rough Rider looks, price, and works OK.

All this discussion is mind boggling (some seems to be just to create arguments, and some is useful even in doing that). It is hard to compare the different programs for sure. My opinions and Thoughts: 1) My insurance (Farm Bureau) company's Umbrella Liability does not cover a self defense situation per my agent. I assume that is true. 2) None of the programs for a defense of a Self Defense Claim cover a crime (murder), they only cover Self Defense. Who decides (?), they do I assume. Hopefully, it is an honest and correct decision. Per Andrew Blanca's posts - there is an ongoing conflict with a member of USCCA regarding USCCA not paying after "reportably" paying bail. I don't know the story to make a intelligent decision. However, my opinion based on INFO I have from Andrew's posts is that it looks suspicious. It may not have been a self defense. Best you research that one yourself. 3) Some memberships in some programs are not allowed in some states. Apparently CCW Safe is in all states because of the way they are set up (something about a model of Police Program and they fund the coverage in a different manner than others). 4) Some LIMIT $$$ coverage (amount allowed for defense) and some are not adequate to cover an actual defense. CCW Safe is UNLIMITED $$$$ including any appeals, mistrials, etc. (Bail is limited to I think $5000,000 or $1,000,000 for maximum program (they changed that recently). Since USCCA is one I would consider -- I state USCCA's coverage is Limited based on the program you choose and I think most basic programs are not adequate except for the premium. 5) Some have a list of Lawyers and some do not. CCWSafe does not - they assist in picking a local Lawyer and work with the lawyer in the defense and investigation. 6) Most do not cover Civil Liability, some do but require a higher premium. Talking getting into $500 +/- per year for Complete and Maximum coverage. 7) Some limit Bail Bond (Bail can be as high as $500,000 or a $1,000,000). Some allow that much coverage, but also require the higher premium plan. Don't forget Lawyer Retaining Fees ($50K +/- to start as well as fees for trial, appeals, investigators, experts. Skip 8 because when I hit the ) after 8, I get a smiley face. LOL like Weird 9) Finally, I say as Andrew mentions in his discussions of Choosing a Program (make sure you understand what they cover - $$$$ and how it is Limited). 10) Andrew has a Consulting Program (I think is like $250 in advance per year) to have him as a consultant in a case. Apparently, his Consulting Fees would be beyond most of us to afford. That said, I think (a guess) if you have a good Program (like CCWSafe and maybe USCCA), it would cover his consult fee if your lawyer decided it is needed. 11) Many programs provide some training FREE (Podcasts, E Mails, Videos). Some of that training you have to purchase. Might add Andrew does have a Bronze Membership (FREE, but time for advertisement of his products)) that hooks you up to his weekly reviews of some cases and other information. I find it interesting and though provoking. PS: My opinion - CCW Safe coverage for those with a Carry Permit at $179 a year is the best program that is reasonable (basically unlimited $$$$ for defense and at least $5000,000 bail - maybe it is $1,000,000). BTW, it does not include Civil Liability, I think that gets to near $500 a year. PSS: The safest thing from a Risk of Injury and a Legal Battle (either of which you may loose) is AVOIDANCE The "justice system" is not forgiving on such issues and is not always FAIR. I include the advice to only show (unconcealed carry can affect that), draw, or use your gun IF ALL CONDITIONS ARE MET. Ain't NO property defense, ain't NOr defense of your honor that is gonna keep you out of prison for a long time. In other words No ANYTHING except DEFENSE of LIFE (and the window for that is often very limited to seconds). Ask the Dude in FL acting up about someone parking in a handicap spot how short the window is.

Received similar EMAIL from Heritage (now owned by TAURUS) that Heritage operations (all operations) moved to Bainbridge, GA. I guess that is ALL (mfg as well)?

Glad someone, Dave, was able to post the actual information, thanks. Moped - I agree it is interesting, after just GOOGLEing Map for Bainbridge, GA (satellite view), it is a pretty isolated small town appears in middle of no place. I also entered address 100 TAURUS Way (Google did not show that location). Maybe a new street.

I did not notice before that it says, 'Moving all our US Operations - including repair department'. I copied the picture that had the Info and placed it on Taurus Forum, but can't seem to post any pictures on this site. Get some MSG about limit on MB.

I have impression they have a new facility (obvious) that may be more up to date (better). Just a guess on my part. That said, always depends on the individual working on the repair (good tech, bad tech).

Received E Mail from TAURUS today, move effective Oct 26, 2019. TAURUS INTERNATIONAL ATTN: Repair Dept 100 TAURUS Way Bainbridge, GA 39817 NOTE: Course contact TAURUS first for authorization to ship in for repairs.

CCWSafe and the Maddox Case --- best write up I have seen on that one. Maddox still ahd 2 years of memory, but would have been in jail for murder (life in NC) without CCWSafe's effort. https://www.concealedcarry.com/law/concealed-carry-charged-with-first-degree-murder/ Sad thing is, shows how messed up the criminal Justice system is (sometimes) when someone that has been beat up twice (within 7 minutes) and a 300 pound Arse is coming at you again when you are trying to leave the scene - and you shoot to defend yourself. Think article said 5 rounds total (with a 44). This was a NC mess, reckon can happen anywhere if can happen in a State like NC. The link came out of an article dealing with different providers of protection (mainly USCCA and CCWSafe comparison and dealt with USCCA's pullout if NJ). Some plans are considered insurance and some states have laws against (NY, WA, and now NJ). USCCA pulled out of NJ. CCWSafe plans are still active in all states (some different procedure they use). As far as I am concerned CCWSafe is the best -- Cheap for CC Permit Holders at $179 (does not cover Civil). I think their full blown maximum plan is like $479 or so (Covers Civil and $100K for Bail Bond, etc. etc.).

I had not heard of a 41 until this thread, may not have read this article if not seen this thread before. Maybe someone else is like me (dumb about a 41), if so here is an interesting article on the history of 41 and later designs. Got $$$$$ you can have one. https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/10/9/a-look-back-at-the-smith-wesson-model-41/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1019

I have had I think 4 Fail to Feed on I think about 300 rounds. Also, think a Fail to Fire twice.

Lot of info on this thread - Thanks for starting it. I don't know enough to comment on real Target Guns even though I only shoot Targets (not cans, etc. LOL). Some of my Target Shooting is with AIMING trying for accuracy and some is more practice Point and Shoot with minimum aim at Targets. The only 22's I have that I consider for Aim Target Shooting are a GSG1911, a Heritage 6.5 inch Revolver, and a SW22 Victory. Needless to say, I buy cheap (low priced sounds better) guns. The only one of those that might be called a 22 Target Gun is the SW22 Victory. It's not the fancy upgraded model but does have Trigger Mods by Previous Owner (about 2 LB pull). Previous Owner installed the Trigger Mod. Also, installed MAGS with the extensions on the MAGS, and the slide pull back attachment. I bought used $249.99, figured about $300 in MODS. DANG thing would not Eject (fail 1/2 time on a 10 round MAG) first time I shot it. Me thinking Extract, I messed with extractor (DUMB still would not eject). Finally was informed on this site that ejector is not extractor and I fixed the eject problem by slightly bending the ejector over to catch the rim of the cartridge. VIOLA - Fixed it. Anyway, I like it, like the way it shoots, breaks down (one screw), and easy to clean and lubricate. One thing, MAG release seems to get in the way of my method of gripping the gun.

AGREE --- Funny, last time I looked, I saw images, now I see thumbnails. Beats Me. I give up, only site I get on that seems to have limit on images (or was told some special procedure to use -- I tried that once and got lost in the procedure). I am only 50% maybe 75% TECHIE, so give up.

That's a deal even after add FFL Fee and Background at Smky Mtn Gun & AMMO of $20. Another want - not a need. LOL

Lot of discussions about FFL Fees. Another thing you have to consider is Sales Tax. EXAMPLESs: Buy in store, pay sales tax and background check. Buy online and ship FREE (generally). Maybe NO Sales Tax (depends). Will have FFL Fee and Background Check. BTW, buy online from BUDS in KY and ship to BUDS in TN (No Sales tax and No FFL Fee, just background). However, I see BUDS Online price is often higher than in store. Background check regardless where you buy (store or online). So all there is to compare is Price and SALES TAX VS FFL Fee - THEN DECIDE. Just have to add it all up. PS: Good deal around here (Sevierville, TN) is Smoky Mtn Gun & AMMO ($10 FFL Fee and $10 Background = $20 Total). BUDS is $25 total.

I see images of targets - 5 images. ????

My Fun Sunday (2nd shoot with the TX22) was 160 rounds with New Toy (130 were Thunderbolt, 1235 FPS, 15 Blazer, 1200FPS, and 15 Aquila,1255 FPS). I had one fail to feed and forget with what AMMO, think the Thunderbolt. 130 rounds of the 160 was Thunderbolt (cause it's cheap mostly $14.30 include tax for 500 rounds). My goal was to see accuracy between the TX22, GSG 1911, and GSG Firefly and to see how the 3 AMMOS would run. Overall, I am satisfied - accuracy between the guns is dependent on shooter (My wiggles and trigger pull). I don't have a hard mount to set a pistol into to check accuracy. I stood with hands against a post for 50 foot target. I also shot from kneeling with hands on a table. And, did some 21 and 30 foot free aim, and some Point / Sort of Aim Quick and Shoot. Someone left a big target - I patched it and shot at 30 feet as first shoot to get an idea of what the gun and me would do using a bigger target. LOL Not bad for an Old 81 yr old rascal. I am satisfied with the gun especially at $219.99 plus $20 in fees, and -$50 rebate. Not all is perfect -- There are reports on TAURUS Forum about barrel Issues (think TAURUS is using a new supplier and getting better barrels). Also, problems with the aluminum slide where the recoil spring sits in the front of the slide (putting gauges in the slide and one guy had a crack develop, TAURUS replaced the slide). Talking 1000s of rounds (like 3000 and 5000). I posted Target Pictures from Sunday shoot on the TAURUS Forum (not allowed to post pictures here - some limit MSG comes up when I do). GROAN HMMM !!! Just found out I could Copy the picture from an E Mail I sent and paste it here. I did some tests at 50 foot (supported gun against a post to check my results with three different guns. I did some rear sight adjustment (windage), it was set full left out of the box, I ended back at near full left. That said, not sure I have it dialed in (my ability comes into question LOL). Here are a few pictures after messing with adjustment. Some aimed here (first 6 rounds) - then more of a point and shoot. Finally, at 50 foot again from Kneeling position and gun hand supported on a table. Three different AMMOs. My guess is windage pretty well set based on the last two pictures from above and the one below ( my shooting - some off to L or R, and some low, not too many high ones).

Some recent prices on the TAURUS TX22 (mine was $219,99 ordered plus FFL of $10 and Back Ground of $10 ) are good since also a REBATE of $50 off of that. That said, SAD REBATE is good only for purchases or orders thru Sept 30. Anyway, as I posted previously on a Thread - I received mine 09-28-2019 (ordered 09-16-2019) and final cost all included out the door was $239.99. The REBATE will be $50 off of that) = $189.99

That be good if FREE Shipping and No Sales Tax. Picked mine up today, 09-28-2019, after Smoky Mtn Gun & Ammo notified me it was Ready To Pick Up. FED X had notified me they delivered it on 09-27-2019 at 9:15AM. 09-28-2019 1st Shoot of the new TX22 at friends range. Tried 3 different AMMOs: Shot the Aquilla 1135 FPS first (think that is when I had the Fail to Load or might have been with the AQ 1255 FPS); Then shot the Aquila 1255 FPS; Then the BLAZER 1200 FPS; Then the Remington Thunderbolt 1235 FPS. The Fail to Load had the bullet, projectile, lodged partly in barrel and the case at feed ramp. The bullet was knocked out of alignment with the case ( guess when slide closed on things). Other than that worked OK with all three AMMOS, accurate considering my shooting skills (ain't an expert). I have a picture of the targets, can't post pictures as site will not let me. GROAN I did post on a Taurus Forum.

By The Way, think I made an error on the price I posted on the RK sale of TX22. The $219.99 price was AFTER the $50 Rebate. So their price was actually $259.99. And, my guess is since they do have stores in TN, you would pay TN Sales Tax (like near 10% - call it $25) and Background Check ($10 more) = $295 (round off) and then get $50 back on rebate = $245. :-(

TX22 shipped today, Wednesday 25th. I ordered Monday, 16th. Business days since order to ship counting from 17th to and include 25th = 8 Business days. Now hope it checks out OK when it comes in.

I agree with "It's a bargain plinker." comment. Gun with one MAG is like $129.99. Son and I bought a Kit (3 and 5 inch barrel, extra MAG you don't get with the gun alone, a lockable plastic case, and some cleaning supplies) for $200 out the door. Son picked it up in GA from a dealer and thinks they did not add Background check fee (BTW, dealer did not carry in stock, but had it advertised on their web site. They had to order it). It's Fun to make the usual "fun of it as a CA Gun comments) but it is a shooter. It does have some weird things that can be easily modified. Two things can be modified: 1) Requires to be in safe to remove the MAG, 2) Requires MAG to rack the slide. Three things can't be modified: 1) Hammer Stop Safety (just leave it off), 2) Difficulty in reinstalling the recoil spring if you release the slide with barrel off (it's the dickens, but there are a couple of techniques that help), 3) MFG recommends AMMO less than 1150 FPS (structural considerations - take a chance and shoot some cheaper AMMO in 1200 plus a little _ I don't know). Anyway, it's another low cost gun made in USA and fun to shoot (try it).

Something different (fun) is Heritage Rough Rider with 16 inch barrel (yes 16 inch). I was tempted when I traded my 4.75 inch rough Rider, but stayed reasonable with the 6.5 inch. Friend bought a 16 inch with Flag Grip at Smoky Mtn Guns a week ago ($129.99). We shot it a bit Sunday - 45 foot target distance (some free hand, some supported against a tree, and some against the tree with barrel supported on a branch). Barrel on a branch worked best. LOL OPPS!!! I attempted upload a picture of target (site would not allow that).

I would like one of everything (want over need thing. LOL However, practically to me I ask, "Why 380 over 9MM purely from AMMO Price"? That said, I have a 380 TAURUS Spectrum (they run around $129.99) and it's a fun shoot and could be a pocket carry. Good shoot once it went back to TAURUS for two problems: 1) Fail to Fire, 2) Lock Back While Firing. TAURUS fixed and paid shipping (lifetime warranty.

As of this morning, 9-24-19, order still being processed (not shipped). Ordered 9-16-2019. No Problem: They warn that shipping takes 7 business days or more. I recently had an E Mail from RK (Rural King) for $219.99 (said in store also or ship to store FREE - we have RKs close by Knoxville area). Add TN Sales Tax (near 10% in TN) and Background Check ($10) = Estimate a bit less that $249.99. Not sure how long the RK deal lasts. $239.99 for my deal (out the the door), but could walk out of RK with it for $10 more (and INSPECT the Gun in store). It is easier to inspect and refuse a gun in store VS a shipping deal to FFL. You can refuse the gun if obvious flaw with the shipping deal when you go to pick it up but it gets a bit complicated.

Comes with two MAGS and Adapter (Standard procedure on TX22). Can get 10 rd for TX22 if in a state that limits. PS: To Rebels010 - My GSG 1911 22LR did not come with an adapter and only one MAG (had to fork out $$ for another MAG). And it was $239.99 plus tax and background.