The Rabbi

No question you are right, Urse. He looks like a Black American. That is what people see. My point is that he is missing that same cultural experience that Black Americans have had. His upbringing was not that different from my own.

+1 I honestly don't care whether the officer thinks I'm being a smart-ass or uncooperative or whatever. I do care that laws are followed and rights respected. And if he wants to search without a warrant or probable cause then I'm going to be the one who gets vindictive, writing him up and making complaints with his dept. Respecting the law is fine. Fearing Johnny Law is not. And Dotsun, thanks for dragging out the relevant post. I don't see how that could be misinterpreted.

Because the cops and ATF are going to ask me where I got it from. I will also be out the money if I paid for the gun before running it. As a dealer I suspect I am held to a much higher standard than Joe Citizen. If someone wants to get all that info from a seller, he is welcome to try. Heck I'd offer anyone wanting to do a transfer to come by and for $30 I'll run it through my book. The seller knows the buyer is legal and the buyer knows the gun is clean. Think of it as insurance. And in the future the Feds will probably require that anyway.

The key phrase in your post is "required by law." If it were up to me I'd take a copy of a person's driver's license to verify who he is and sell him the gun. But it isnt up to me. So I follow the law. Here, in private sales, there is no legal requirement to give or take that kind of information. So why do it? As for copying the DL, I only do that when someone sells or trades a gun. Strictly speaking it isn't required by law but it is a good business practice.

Tokarev, if I told you, I'd have to kill you.

No, the various benefits like medical insurance and pension that people in the private sector only dream about. That of course is not a motivator in and of itself for most people. But it sure doesnt hurt. And I remember that whenever I'm solicited by the "Patrolman's Benevolent Fund" and suchlike.

Let's clear the air here a minute. First I am on record as not opposing a simple bill of sale, referencing the gun and serial number. Second, even that bill of sale would not help in the situation Tungsten outlines. "There is reasonable suspicion he stole the gun himself." Horse hockey. Was the guy there where the gun was stolen? Did he know the original owner? Is he the kind of person who goes around stealing stuff? No one is going to get prosecuted because he did something legal, i.e. bought a gun in a FTF sale. I took in a gun that was stolen. Cops came (eventually) to pick it up and asked where it came from. I gave them the seller's name, telephone number, even showed them a copy of his driver's license (which is why I make them). I later asked the guy, a regular customer, if he had heard from them. Not a peep. Third, the forum form is BS in the extreme and I consider it an invasion of my privacy. Why do I have to declare to you, in writing, that I am legal? It is the equivalent of letting the police officer search my car. Skrew yew.

Darkstar, those things are true. If you don't depend on those three guns, you might as well lie down in the gutter and die. Everything else is just newfangled and untested. It is just a conspiracy by gun magazines to sell advertising. I occasionally get people like that through the store, telling their buddies how one shot from a .45 will blow a man's head clean off. I generally try to ignore it.

I thought about this. Obama isn't really Black in any cultural sense. An American Black family will have family memories of Jim Crow and segregation, maybe even slavery. Much as my family has family memories of immigration and life on the Lower East Side and working in sweat shops. Obama's family doesn't have any of that. He is just my age, so too young to remember segregation or experience it firsthand. His black father was an African so no memory of Black history in America. It is a sham, a fake.

I would back out too. It is an idiotic form. It doesn't protect anyone from anything.

Spot on. But pointing out the idiocy of this stuff is hard to people inured to it. THey simply can't believe it.

Nah. If you ain't shooting a 6.8SPC with gas piston upper, you might as well just lie down in the desert and die.

Jackdog, none of my heroes died in combat. They all live on eternally.

They're here. Yes the same price.

I looked for a news article on this. It's a little different. They will be targeting motorists and looking at IDs, i.e. drivers' licenses. http://www.nbc4.com/news/16493835/detail.html Now, that's sort of OK. The part about "a legitimate reason to be there" is nonsense. I dont need a legitimate reason to be anywhere, other than "I want to." I would about organize a drive up there to cruise those neighborhoods. Excuse me sir, what is your purpose for being in this neighborhood? Screw you officer.

Somehow I doubt they will do this. If they do and get away with it, we're all screwed. If they do and don't get away with it, they're screwed. And some people on this very site would probably see nothing wrong with it. "Why yes officer, here's my ID. Please search my car and person while you're at it."

You didnt push it in to the case and then lift up? Always worked for me. Crazy Germans. Some design engineer spent 6 months on that project.

Jackdog. He's my hero.

Yup. 100%. I have a couple of "customers" who come in and look at a bunch of stuff. Then I get the "what is your best price out the door" line. So I tell them, depending on my mood, financial situation, how long the gun has been there, etc. Let's say "$575 out the door." "Would you take $450?" No, I just told you what my best price out the door is. I hate chiselers.

Much smaller than the 59-series Smith. Thinner than the Glock.

I dont know about 99%. Cops are there to do a job. Their job is to get criminals off the streets. If they stop me, they suspect me of being one of those criminals, and will likely treat me as such until proven otherwise. So they are hardly my friends in that situation. But the fact there are some who will exceed their limits, or try to, is good enough reason to be wary of all cops.

WHy is that a bad thing? States that already have carry will continue to have it, and those that don't will probably adopt Federal guidelines. The strictest carry state now is better than the most liberal non-carry state.

I never had issues like that. What I did have is older guys, generally retired, who like to come in and run their mouths. Now, I'm happy for someone to stop in and say hi and maybe tell me/show me what they just bought. For 10 minutes. Not for 45 minutes. The last one that did that I just got up and went to the back. Amazingly some people really think I care what hunting was like in the 1960s or all the great deals they found at gun shows in the last 20 years.

Richard, your attitude is the downfall of this country. I never served in the military. Closest I came was registering for the draft and I was in the first year we had to do that. If you served you either got drafted or your volunteered. If you got drafted it was your tough luck. If you volunteered it was your choice. Either way it does not give you more rights than the rest of us. It sure as hell does not allow you to tell people what they should and shouldn't be able to do. Contrary to what was stated here, American citizens enjoy equal rights under the Constitution. All of them. Regardless of service. Even conscientious objectors, even Vietnam era draft dodgers. Even people who think America is the sum of all evil. All of us enjoy these rights equally. It is my right to refuse the officer's request to search. I will do so. If he had reasonable cause he wouldn't need to ask, and if he needs to ask he doesn't have reasonable cause. Am I making the officer's job harder? Yes! And I am happy to, because that's my right. If we abolished all rights then the jobs of police and judges would be infinitely easier. Just lock em up. Fortunately we don't live in a police state. And the reason we don't is because there are citizens here who push back against the inevitable forces of "law enforcement" that want to curtail those rights. And that includes acts of courage like refusing a search request.

No, I assign you to the tin foil hat brigade because instead of articulating reasons why this might not be good you mutter darkly about the government. Newsflash: No legislation is going to reference the 2nd Amendment. They don't do that. If you're waiting for that, you'll be waiting a long time.