The Rabbi

I dont understand this equivalence argument. The LEO has the power to arrest me basically for nothing. Some have exercised exactly that power in the past, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. The LEO has far greater power than the private citizen at that moment. That someone in such a position would think it reasonable/possible/likely that the mere presence of a holstered weapon indicates a dangerous criminal is deeply disturbing and in no way off-sets the LEO's (legitimate) concerns about his own safety.

I think that pretty well answered the question. Yes, the idea that a private citizen with a holstered gun in a car is a threat ipso facto is scary. The idea that Punisher has that such a citizen is more likely to drive off than someone without a gun is simply ludicrous. MolonLabetn nails it precisely: officer sees a gun, officer asks for permit, citizen produces permit. End of problem.

No, the opposite is the case. When the gun was produced machining was not nearly as precise as today. Ergo it was necessary to hand fit parts. The internal extractor must be fitted by hand precisely otherwise the gun won't work. Today machining tolerances are much tighter so it is possible to produce one, esp with an external extractor, to be completely interchangeable.

If that's actually your thought process then that is very very scary.

I find this exchange mystifying. Why would the officer ask the citizen to get out of the vehicle at that point? Why not ask "do you have a carry permit? May I see it?" Citizen shows permit, and done. This is exactly the kind of blowing things up that are problemmatic. So pointing out what the law requires and informing other people about it is not sticking my neck out for what's right? Wow. I'd like to see your definition of "what's right" and sticking your neck out. And apparantly you think the only difference between an honest citizen and a criminal is that the honest citizen hasn't been caught yet. Look at the history of search and seizure law in this country. Over the past 30 years there has been a continuous weakening of basic protections in the name of security and fighting crime. Yes, we could get rid of lots of crime if every traffic stop involved searching the person and vehicle and getting biometric IDs for everyone involved. To me that is an unacceptable price for security.

My view is that part of living in a democratic society is that we have to defend our rights because there are tons of people out there wanting to take them, all for a good purpose. Convenience and safety are among those purposes cited. Yeah, you can bend over to Officer Friendly and let him search your vehicle, your house, or your wife. Makes life easier for everyone and you've got nothing to hide. Except this is exactly how civil rights disappear in a society. People become complacent and pretty soon the police call the shots. That's a police state.

Doesnt matter where it comes. If the part is fitted specifically to that gun, that it is not interchangeable with any other gun.

Yeah, still got the 23, in very good condition. Even got an esstended for it. As for polymer guns, I dont know why people don't consider the new Beretta Px4s more. For my money they are the best polymer guns on the market. As for comparing the XD with the SIG, gimmeabreak. I would compare the XD with the HiPoint, except the XD's warranty is worse.

The Hitler-Koch costs about 40-50% more than the Glock. And it is about equal a pistol. Maybe. Magazines are horribly expensive. Customer service is an oxymoron. I never liked the guns as I think they are a poor value. Not bad guns, but not nearly worth the price.

I dont understand why you think cops should have the right to handcuff honest citizens because they look at them crossways. I understand LEOs need to feel secure but handcuffing and frisking people for an out of date tag seems a little extreme to me.

And whaty does it matter if they want to search you and your vehicle? You dont have anything to hide, right? SO what's the big deal?

I believe the 1911 requires some hand fitting, especially on the internal extractor. That makes total interchangeability a no-go. To my knowledge the only guns that passed that test in the military's review were the Beretta and the SIG.

We have this thing called "the law" in this country. I am obligated to obey it. So are you. The law calls for me to present my permit on request. That's it. As for asking me, I never said I would answer no. I said I would not answer at all. I am under no obligation to answer that question. Nor am I under obligation to answer where I am going, why I am in a particular neighborhood, or why I have 5 unloaded long guns in my back seat. It's legal. It's none of anyone's business. As for complaints, I have yet to see the department that didnt take citizen complaints seriously and investigate them. As for great cops and stupid permit holders, there is no question. The vast majority of cops are decent guys doing their jobs. But all too often there is some guy out there who feels like the citizenry needs to feel the weight of his badge every now and then, and he likes inflicting his power on people he can. And that's what I object to.

It prevents you from buying a SIG. There isn't any. The Glock wont work for a certain number of people. And they'll figure out who they are. Only real downside is for someone with poor gun handling skills. Glocks dont do well with that and tend to be unforgiving, like shooting people in the butt.

It is not an effort or infringement to hand over the permit. When asked. Don't ask me, I'm not doing it. Sorry. You see my gun and ask about a permit, fine. But my gun sitting in a holster concealed is no threat to you. DOnt treat it like one. Otherwise you end up like that ignoramus officer in Knoxville with a complaint on your record.

I've got a Webley And Scott .32 that is older than any 1911. And it works just fine. I dont see what all these things have to do with the time of day. The 1911 was a very good platform for what it was designed to do. But it has been superseded by developments since WW2. People still like them for whatever reason, great. The P7 is just superior in every way that a carry pistol is supposed to be. I cant help that.

How many German criminals have been shot with a 1911 by German police officers? Just asking. The fact that the US cared for so little about sidearms that it continued to issue the 1911 for 40 years after the last one was delivered is largely irrelevant. The P7 is a much better weapon than the 1911. In many respects the Smith Sigma is a much better weapon.

If all you got is $200 you can have either a functional (mostly) Hi Point pistol that comes with a life-time warranty or you can have a magazine for a P210. Your choice.

Nope. No law to that effect. If they ask for your DL,then OK. If they ask for your HCP, OK. If they ask if you have loaded weapons in the car, not a word. It is the principle. People give up their civil rights every day in this country, largely because they dont know what they are. I am not accountable to an LEO for my actions, unless I violate the law.

I never understood the appeal of the .50Gastrointestinal. Yet another quirky caliber that is expensive and difficult to find.

When you look for a pistol for different things you have certain qualities in mind. They might be: -capacity -size -accuracy -reliability -ease of shooting -maintenance -availability of parts/accessories and probably a few other things. The Glock does all of those well. Other guns will do some of them extremely well. But none does as much as well as the Glock. They have no soul. You won't get attached to one as an heirloom piece. They are very utilitarian. But they serve the purpose. And I've never owned one.

I got to shoot one at IDPA. It is a very very nice gun. Out of my price range too I'm afraid. "Better" is rather subjective here, depending on what qualities one wants. In some ways a Hi Point is better than either the SIG or the Hitler-Koch.

My position is that I will be polite but not especially helpful. If asked if I'm carrying I am not answering. AFAIK nothing requires me to answer that question. If he asks for my permit I will hand it over. If he asks to search my car, fuhgeddaboutit.

AK pistol.

dcloudy is right: the P7 really is the best 9mm made. Sorry. Sell a couple of your sissy 1911s and invest in one and you'll see why. It would be a perfect gun for you btw as the bore axis is low and you seem to shoot well with guns like that. Why is it out of production? Because it got too expensive to make and people wont spend $1400 on a compact 9mm carry gun (they will spend twice that on a full sized 1911 safe queen but no one ever accused 1911 owners of smarts). Like most things, if it's popular it's no good. If it's good, it's not popular.