The Rabbi

It should be absolutely reliable and free from operator error. It should fire a caliber sufficient to inflict tremendous wounds,but also able to handle less powerful loads for practice. It should be of a small enough size and weight to be easy to carry. It should be aesthetically pleasing. Oh, yeah. They dont need to invent that gun because I already carry a Smith Model 19!

Actually the biggest cost is probably manufacturing the item, not the materials in it. Material cost obviously play some part, and when the jump has been as big as it's been, it will come out. BUt I still think the driving force is more greater worldwide demand for ammo than demand for material.

They also change ammo requirements. The Iraq engagement will end or simmer down at some point.

No, it's somewhat linked to the price of components. Other factors include demand overall. With the US military snarfing up all the 5.56 and 7.62 they can, that crowds out production of other calibers, raising prices overall. If the war winds down and ammo requirements lessen, we'll see prices tend down.

Again, you're lack of precision and proper use of language makes it difficult. A criminal generally is not acting out of "ideology"--he is acting for personal gain. A government agent acts in pursuance to his job. So I don't know why you drag ideology in here. I do not know whether gov't agents have too much leeway to enforce the state's laws. From what I can gather, they are subject to tremendous oversight, up to and including ending their career, fines, and jail sentences. Frequently major operations must be cleared at the highest levels (as Waco was). So now you've combined an unproven assertion with a factual mistake and added an inappropriate comparison. What's next?

You seem to be positing a distinction without a difference. Or maybe no difference at all. Or maybe no meaningful comparison, along the lines of "SS Agents and ATF Agents both wear shirts."

No that will not wash either. Germany was not a Democratic society by the time of the Nuremburg Laws. Most political parties were outlawed and many segments lost the right to vote. Political enemies were dead or in exile. Hitler was well established as a dictator already and no one was going to do anything that he didnt want. You have consistently voiced opinions based on misinformation and misunderstanding. Every single post is an exercise in poor logic, poor grasp of facts, and inappropriate reasoning from what is given. If you cannot see that then I cannot change your mind. There are no grounds to argue. You might as well post every single time "Bush lied, people died" and have it mean as much.

Jason, you learned an excellent lesson. What works well under some conditions wont necessarily work well under others. This is just the kind of thing I like about this sort of shooting.

Actually my extractor is manually operated.

Lower cost plus more reliability makes it an obvious choice to me.

No, there is no state sanction oppression going on with ATF. There is no oppression at all. This is a democratic society. If enough people feel strongly enough then they can elect legislators to change laws, they can amend the constitution, they can petition and put measures on the ballot. That by definition cannot happen in an oppressive society, like Nazi Germany.

That's just absolute hogwash. Your comparisons would be odious if they were not so laughable.

No, he was just in last week. Nice enough guy.

No, that simply won't do either. To say "there weren't as many killed" is to mis-state the situation. There was exactly one situation like Ruby Ridge (namely Ruby Ridge) and exactly one situation like Waco (Waco). They were different in a variety of ways. They played out in one location over maybe weeks. Germans do not consider the Holocaust an "isolated" incident in the same way. There were hundreds of thousands of like incidents, all over Germany, committed by many different governmental and non-governmental agencies and over a period of years. It was not an abuse or mis-application of law: it was precisely the fulfillment of the laws and their intended effects.

Indeed. It was so successful I am reasonably sure I would do it again. The guys who showed up had a great attitude, were very competent with their guns, and overall distinguished themselves pretty well. We had no, zero, problems and everyone came away wanting to do it again (as far as I can tell). So yeah, if we can schedule it we'll probably do it again.

Well, no. That wont wash either. The Weavers arguably were victims of over-zealous prosecution and/or misjudgments. It was an isolated incident. The Jews of Germany were subject to consistent harassment both legally and socially as part of an organized campaign by the gov't. There was no isolated incident. Try again.

That's a statement without much significance. Every gov't sponsored atrocity is a policy of the state. Every gov't sponsored program that was of benefit is a policy of the state. That's like saying that both desegregation and pogroms were carried out largely by men wearing shirts. So what?

Another false comparison. My wife's grandfather was a baker named Kaiser who was a Jew. His business was confiscated and he was thrown in laager and released at the last minute. If he had been a baker named Mueller who was a Lutheran he would have continued unmolested. Weaver sold or conspired to sell an illegal weapon. Whether he was a White Supremacist or a Muslim or a member of the Church of Christ wouldn't have made the slightest difference. Comparing the Nuremburg Laws to Federal Laws here is an atrocious absurdity.

Fo' real.

The key words are "eventually found guilty of." What happens between the LE enforcement action and the final outcome is subject to all kinds of constraints.

I feel the love of this board. I think the official board style should be that they are called "clips." Much as anyone's handgun should be called a "piece." This is in solidarity with our inner-city brothers."

I dont know about that specific one. I do know I purchased an IWB for a Smith model 65 3" that was the best holster I ever owned. Everything an IWB ought to be. Worth every penny.

That's the most screwed up reasoning I have seen in a long time. The Weavers did not get into trouble because of their religious beliefs. They got into trouble because they violated Federal law. Ditto the Branch Davidians. Now you can argue that the gov't was over-zealous or exhibited poor judgement in how they pursued these two cases. That's legitimate. But comparing the fate of those two groups of nudniks to that of the Jews under the Nazis is simply misinformed at best.

Yeah, yeah. Just embarrassed to shoot with us guys. Besides, the club's liability insurance limits us to only 2 Glock shooters at a time.

No matter how good you are, there is someone out there better than you. And you will run into that person soon enough.