One1

There is nothing about 2mm that makes the slightest damn about that optic being on a plate. Either you have an optic or you don’t. The viper mini is one of the lowest profile dots on the market so let’s call it equalling the rest of the dots. since we are being fair for the sake of fair, you’ll notice all Caniks sit flush on the RMR plates. therefore i simply made the plate that is in the other canik kits. That makes it correct.

Negative

We are shooting about ten yards on the last trip. I didn’t want to put anyone under the bus so i just gave three examples without names. My shots are more centered, i tend to shoot slightly high, but centered. I just wanted to get opinions on a more scientific way to center a red dot. Most of the shots i took on the target were high or low, but when i changed ammo and shooters they went right and left so i saw room for the red dot to be setup wrong by certain people. I’ve had a tendency to shoot slightly left of center if anything, but not low and left. My last target test was this one. I’m not a marksman, but I don’t really have issues that I’d be concerned about. That wasn’t always the case as my first shooting days I did the typical low left pull and changing guns made a bigger difference than changing techniques. One’s that fit better didn’t make me have to work so hard. i just feel like there’s gotta be a better way to get a non biased approach to centering the red dot with people’s natural tendency to pull or anticipate. I’m not completely convinced that I’m shooting center either because i have no reference when setting a red dot so my inquiry is also for my own shooting just incase maybe i am pulling, who knows..... there is no center point reference when setting a dot

I put red dots where they don’t belong i like them so much. The Canik TP9SF Elite SC is only milled for a Shield Micro Dot, but I decided a Viper Mini would fit.

Adding my new Elite SC to the thread.

For my personal grouping I typically shoot a hole in the target instead of individual holes. It’s hard to see once the target is shot out, but I’d do about 4 shots and change the red dot. Most of the groups of 4 are about 1.5” to 2” but I can’t say which ammo was which or who was shooting. If I had wanted to rely on the results of the targets I’d have shot one by myself totally, but it was really just progressive as I didn’t expect to have issues once done. Actually as far as the zero is concerned I was pleased with the result in the end. I shot about 1.5” groups in the yellow and then packed up. I didn’t ever solve the question though of is it really zero or not because I could be pulling.

Here’s a video that shows the group. Explained in more detail here.

When I recently zero’d a couple red dots I noticed that I could shoot them great, but others couldn’t shoot them as well. What I determined was one of us was pulling, one of us was anticipating, and the other was not doing either. So depending on who set the red dot up, they were the only one that could shoot it well. This leads me to two questions. (1) if you don’t know you are pulling how can you set up a red dot to be at zero? And (2) does it matter if it’s your dot and you are the one shooting? I’m not aware of a way to set up a red dot with graphs in a room and not shoot the gun. That would get true zero. Anyone know of a better way than trusting grouping? Changing ammo, shooters, etc changes everything.

Expandable thumbs

After noticing striking similarities between these two optics I started to suspect they were out if the same sweat shop. TL;DR I’m now convinced they are. Viper - $249 ADE - $79 In terms of specs they are identical so no need to list them. They are in fact so similar I’ll just list the differences. The viper battery just sits on the bottom pressed against the optic via the mount. The ADE uses a screw cap with waterproof seal. I prefer the ADE on that because water still can get in the mount through the screw holes. The Viper is slightly smaller in height, but I didn’t notice a difference when shooting. They are both the same brightness with the exception that the Viper has 7 clicks and the ADE has 5. Where the Viper has an up and down button, the ADE has a single button that simply loops from dim to bright over and over. They both have the same polished lens and tint and the screws are in the exact same spots for adjustments. They both performed identically. Zero was set on both after a few adjustments and they both stayed there for the 500 rounds. Fit and finish, the material used, and the coatings on both were spot on dead wringers. I would suggest if you only have $79 and want an optic to check the ADE out. It’s definitely not one of those horrible optics that the lens blows out on after 3 shots. I’m comfortable saying it seems to be an unlicensed version of the Viper with subtle changes to avoid legalities. clickable hi-res thumbs below

I’ll lead the thread by example telling my story. I went to get the enhanced permit after finally deciding that I wanted to carry for protection. I’ve shot targets and enjoyed guns for years, so i was already proficient when I went in to the facility for range and classroom testing. I had taken the training course on a Saturday, went to the fingerprints station and also the DMV Monday, and was informed by the website that my permit was approved on Tuesday. Basically went from nothing to “card is in the mail” in 4 days. From what I’ve gathered that’s pretty quick in TN. On Wednesday i asked a cop buddy if my ID showed CCW when ran and he said yes. Dang they’re fast! The process was fast considering everything that needed to be done (fingerprinting, DMV, range training, classroom training, etc) all at different locations on different days and it was still all done and card mailed in 4 days start to finish. I know due to work schedules and other issues people tend to do each step as they can and you have X days to complete each step. So what’s your story on getting your Permit and did you get enhanced or standard?

eBay holder for the Canik TP9SFx IWB - $39.95 shipped Any drawbacks - not really but “because Canik” you’ll get a mark on the holster from the extended slide release on this model. Retention is not click retention, just friction. It fits, it’s medium grade quality compared to “super awesome custom everything”. The leather is the same you’ll find on $200 - $300 saddlebags on a motorcycle. Not super cheap, not super awesome. The optical fits perfectly, no issues there. For the money it’s a win. You can spend more, you can get more. In the under $40 class of IWB with optical you are way ahead of the game with this one. In racing we say how fast you wanna go, how much money you wanna spend? This would be a time-slip you didn’t expect to get for what you paid. Surprisingly decent. (Clickable thumbs)

Negative. They have the ability to ask. Under conditions that they demand your personal information to determine if you are legally doing anything they are violating your privacy and attempting to police. You and they both have the right to refuse. If they call the police and you are arrested it’s because you are trespassing, not because you didn’t show them your carry permit. If they had a right to Police you and see it, that’s what you’d be arrested for. So it should go both ways..... the police are called and you are standing on the other side of the street. Inform the officer a rights violation has taken place and THEY get arrested on a technicality just like you would. Gonna happen? Nope. That’s how it should however. That’s why we created civil rights, so when they are violated someone is accountable.

The business should be reprimanded for trying to be the police. They have no right to ask for your permit. Either they allow guns or they do not allow guns. The end. Conditional admittance based on information they cannot legally ask for (otherwise you'd be required to show) in an attempt to be the police and invade your privacy sounds like a rights violation. Either allow guns or don’t allow guns.

I haven’t been denied, but i made sure to fill out the optional boxes of extra information they have when you apply to reduce the risk of someone with the same name slowing the process down. About ten years ago a nutjob in a state on the east coast made national news and not only did he have the same name, he is supposedly 10 months or so within my exact age. More than enough to at least have it pop up during the check. I suggest always filling in the optional info. edit: to add to that, by filling out the optional info my application was completely done in 2 days as you can see here. Not 48 hours after visiting the dmv i had 3 checkmarks. 1 day later the card was in the mail. Total time 4 days. This was for enhanced of course. (click for image then click again to enlarge)

Ok so ran the gun today, or tried to. I had ordered a metal mag because i already know the plastic one doesn’t work well, but that’s what i have until it comes. Within 3 mags it got pretty dirty and started hanging up. The malfunctions were inside the mag with the bullets failing to feed from deep inside the mag. If you smacked it the ammo would pop up. The gun ran great when you consider that i tried to manually load a shell and the chamber was already so dirty that i could only push the shell halfway in. It had been scrubbed before using. Knowing how dirty it was I’m very impressed with the gun. With a solid mag this gun will run like a champ. I’ll probably still polish everything just to help it along. I think it’ll be a great gun. Accuracy was amazing @ 100yards. Groups were 2” off the hand standing in a field with no support. That’s pretty solid because the gun is fairly heavy.

The most amazing thing happened, you won’t believe it.... i filed an ebay complaint and it magically shipped immediately. I may get a brick, i may get a green dot..... who knows. Zero’d the Viper red dot. Kinda feel lazy using it. I like the dot, but i like iron sights. I do better with them, but this was my first time with the dot. I don’t see anything changing however. People who say they can’t find the dot easily must not know where the front of the gun is. If you are used to aiming true the dot will simply be there. I just feel like the dot isn’t showing me a dead true aim in all directions like the iron sights. I’d prefer crosshairs on the dot For a reference of dead true instead of “the dot is probably on target”. Kinda undecided. once i got the dot zero’d then this happened.

I must have been sleeping when the responses came in. I also have a 45 full size (the bigger, big) extended long slide. Can confirm it’s hands down the worst trigger ever put on a Smith. If they had used a potato I wouldn’t notice.

About to just say forget it. The seller promised me the green since they didn’t have the red. When i said ok ship the green when is it going out i got this. /over it. I’d love to have seen if the ADE was worth having, but it’s not worth my sanity. Unless i have tracking today showing it has left I’m filing a refund request with ebay. I’ll just use my Viper and we will assume the ADE wasn’t meant to be.

Thanks! I’ve noticed a huge difference in how the Remington hits the snap cap (right) vs my M&P 22 Compact (left). Hopefully no light strikes with it, I’ll shoot tomorrow and find out.

Grabbed one of these today for $99 so couldn’t pass it up. Top questions: (1) headspacing good enough to dry fire if i am ever without snap caps? (2) lower power ammo like CCI QUIET - any issues? (3) whats the biggest magazine available? (4) anything i NEED to do to improve any issues the gun may be known for? So far they look to be a solid choice. Thanks!

Then you come across as unintelligent and this isn’t for you. I don’t even OWN one. Good sleuthing. Back to the plan, looks like I’ll be getting the green version. Seller couldn’t provide the requested optic. I’m actually ok with this because I’ve never seen a green dot. I may like it, but pretty sure I’m more interested in a red. So, couple more days it seems.

Well most people can’t put these side by side because they usually buy an ADE because they can’t afford the Viper I’m just looking for the diamond so I’ve decided to bite the bullet and buy both so i can do a comparison for everyone I’ve ordered both the ADE clone and picked up the Viper from Bass Pro. With the ADE being a high quality optic without the software of the Venom i suspect they are actually from the same sweatshop. $70 vs $250. We will find out in a few days when the ADE arrives.