dcloudy777

  Well, if they ever make a shotgun sidesaddle that holds a backup gun.... :woohoo:

I've never heard of anyone losing a fight because they had too much ammo....

Shooting out of cars gets really interesting with shotguns and rifles.  The 16" .308 with a muzzle brake from in the car at the Pro-Am a couple years ago was epic!  :up:

AK's are fun, I have a few.. I really enjoy my SBR'd Draco, but they're all behind my AR-pattern guns on the "depth chart" for social purposes.  The ergonomics are just terrible... the trigger is the only control on the whole gun that is where it needs to be.  The stock sights aren't good either... now that I think about it I have optics on all of my AKs.   :rock:   DanO

In that case, IDPA has made it abundantly clear, over and over again, that they don't want you there.

  The only group IDPA is less interested in accomodating than new shooters is.. existing shooters.  From what I'm hearing, even input from the "Tiger Teams" was largely ignored. 

Both above posters are dead on.  Try a different magazine before you spend any money on the gun itself, and if the gun does need work, nobody does AKs any better than Troy.

Green front sight, because it's the brightest color.  Contrasting rear for, well, contrast.  I like orange, but yellow works too.  :2cents:     DanO

I'll see your Mogwai and raise you a Penelope. :up: [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/dcloudy777/media/photo9.jpg.html][/URL]

As long as the "thing" in question isn't moving or being pushed/pulled on, accuracy won't be hurt. Slings, bipods, hands - bad. Gas blocks, sights, hood ornaments - fine.

Be advised, if you mount your front sight to the handgaurd, the possibilty of sight movment exsists. Some tubes are more "rigid" than others. If you're going to shoot irons a lot, you might want to think about clamping a separate front sight to the barrel, as close to the muzzle as you can get it. This will ensure that the sight stays put, and maximize your sight radius, which is huge for irons. That's what a lot of the folks that shoot irons in 3-gun do. This here is irons guru Kurt Miller with an example.

  No, my main argument was the increased precision that the rifle affords.  Just for posterity, I'll group some of my rifle "advantages into three categories:   Most important:  precision targeting, easier to learn to use, faster follow-up shots/multiple targets   Somewhat important:  higher ammo capacity, easier to reload, longer useful range   Not as important:  defeats armor, easier to use with one hand not free

  Thanks... I'm not saying that the shotgun is a "bad" tool for defensive use... it's pretty good.  I just think that the autoloading rifle, in particular the AR-pattern gun, is a better one. 

Talk about the perfect case for "use caution while re-holstering"!   :devil:

It sucks, and people need to get fired over it.  That being said, legally speaking you may have a "reasonable expectation of privacy", but in the crappy real world, I don't think you can reasonably expect to have any sort of real privacy over any sort of wirless network.  I try very hard never to say anything over a phone or on the internet that I would cause me any more than embarrassment if a judge read it.  It sucks, and it really needs to change, but that's the way it is.       DanO

Properly cycling a pump shotugun is easy in your living room, one the range, or even the dove field. Add in a bit of stress, time pressure, sweat, blood, or pants-pooping fear.... It becomes a bit tougher. Between law enforcement training and 3-gun/tactical shotgun matches, I'd conservatively estimate that I've run at least 30,000 rounds through a pump shotgun, and watched another 100,000 get shot through one (some by some of the best shooters in the world). Short strokes absolutely happen. Under-lifter jams absolutely happen. Missing absolutely happens.

  Of course it does... if you pullt the trigger and get no bang... does it really matter whether it was your fault or the guns?  Any gun is just part of a "weapon system", with the most important part being the operator.  When taken as a complete system, the AR + user is at least asreliable than a pump shotgun + user.  Pump guns get short-stroked a lot under stress, and movies notwithstanding, are single-shots if you don't have both hands free.   And buckshot sails right through interior walls no problem.  If it didn't it wouldn't stop fights.  Sure rifle rounds will go through more walls, but also have a much better chance of being stopped by the intended target.   As for range not being an issue... better to have and not need.  And if you're using buckshot to stop a threat at ranges greater than 40 yards, I hope there's no bystanders around, and you have good cover.  And the threat is standing pretty still in the open.  :devil:   As for the capacity issue... shooting a lot of projectiles with each pull of the trigger cuts both ways... sure you get 81 pellets, but you only get to aim 9 times... rememeber, every piece of lead is gonna hit something, and you've signed for it.   Armored threats are (thunkfully), not likely, but the rifle will certianly deal with them better.  What will the shotgun do better?      Still having fun though, and hey, it quit raining!   :up:

  These statements seem kinda contradictory.... if the buckshot won't travel or penetrate well, how is it producing the truama?  Elfin magic?  :P Modern 5.56 ammuniton has a stellar "street record" of stopping threats.   As for reliablity.... not buying that one either... the pump shotgun is much, much more prone to operator error, particularly under stress.  Also, shotgun malfunctions are extremely diffcult to rectify when they do happen.   A tube-fed shotgun can indeed be "topped off" at any time, but so can a magazine-fed rifle, and much less skill is required.  Loading a tube-fed shotgun quickly is very difficult to do, again, particularly under stress or while moving.  ARs are easy to load, and hold 3-4 times as much ammunition anyway.   Less-lethal options are definitely a point in the shotgun's favor, as are breaching rounds... those are the the two primary uses for the shotgun in combat.    Where the rifle really shines is in precision at all ranges.  Remember, you're responsible for every projectile you send downrange, and every one of them is going to hit something.  Inside of 10 yards, sure a 00 shell will probably keep all nine pellets inside COM of the target, but at that range with an AR you can literally pick which eye you want to hit.  At 25 yards, 00 is getting marginal for keeping all pellets on a man-sized targets, but you're still in easy headshot/heart shot range with the rifle.  At 40 yards, the shotgun is pretty much done, unless you're shooting slugs, and the rifle is still capable of headshot precision.  If good guys are around, the rifle gives you much more flexibilty to engage the bad gys than buckshot at any range.   Another advantage of the rifle over the shotgun is the armored threat.  Practically all soft body armor stops 00 buck cold.  A rifle can defeat soft armor easily, and even trauma plates are much easier to shott "around" with a rifle than a shotgun.   That's my salvo for now.   :up:

Anything smaller than #4 Buckshot (and that's marginal) is a very, very, very bad idea.  Simply put.. if it won't penetrate drywall, how in the world is it going to stop a threat?  A fellow that goes by the handle of Old Painless has done an incredible job of testing, here is his site:   http://www.theboxotruth.com/   And I completely stand by my statement that 5.56mm autoloading rifle beats shotgun in the defensive role.  Hits to vital areas win fights, and the AR makes those hits faster, more precisely, at much longer ranges, and with much less operator skill involved than the shotgun.  I'm no tac ninja operator, but I have been in a scrape or two, and have fired thousands of rounds from handguns, rifles, shotguns, subguns, and squirt guns.  I've shot a boat load of three-gun, and done quite a bit or "real-world" oriented training.  The rifle beats all... it's not really even close.    But I love the discussion.  And I do have to admit that shotgun matches are crazy fun.  :up:   DanO

The M1 Carbine is an excellent HD weapon as well... practically no recoil, not "scary looking", plenty accurate out to 150 yds or so.  Pretty much .357Mag power levels in a handy little semi-auto package.  Just more food for thought. 

American Spirit Arms does a nice side-charging AR upper, but it's pricey.   JP does an even nicer one, that's even more pricey.   If you don't mind a reciprocating charging handle, there are a few less expensive options for side-charging ARs.

There's been some pretty good info being shared here.  But your AR (provided it's a reliable gun), is as good or better a defensive tool in every measurable category.  Shotguns are for hunting, shooting three-gun and tactical shotgun matches, and for turning into short-barreled shotguns so you can show them off and play at the range.  Rifles are just better... an AR15-type rifle can do everything (from an anti-personnel standpoint) that a shotgun can do, and a whole lot more. The shotgun, while indeed a powerful weapon, has limited ammunition capacity, limited range, and is the most diificult weapon system to learn how to "fight" effectively. I do keep 14" 870 loaded with buckshot, but it's a backup to one or two rifles that I would grab first. The only way I'd recommend a shotgun for defensive purposes is if someone can't sweing the money for a decent rifle (shotguns are indeed cheaper)... but you already have one.  If you want a shotgun, by all means, buy one (this is America, after all), but If I were you I'd just buy one that's fun to shoot.... coach gun or something maybe.     DanO

Soultion in search of a problem.... it will obviously not be allowed in any sort of competitive arena, and it's pretty useless in any tactical scenario because the shooter doesn't have control over when the shot is actually fired (how do you engage a moving target or a in hostage scenario?).  It's really neat tech, but I don't see it doing anything other than filing segments on the Military Channel. 

I might have to clean the wheel gun up from Nationals and come play....

  And just that kwikly, my interst has waned....