Jonnin

I have the plr 16 which is close enough to make a few comments. First, its very large and heavy and esp front-heavy for a pistol, making it a bit odd for conventional style. Its more suited to bench shooting or hip-shooting than traditional 2h hold it out in front of you, the front heavy issue makes the weight issue worse than usual. Second, while kel tech guns are inexpensive and fulla plastic, they are also backed by a great warrenty and the company tries hard to fix any issues folks have. The model I have has not had any failures so far or major issues. I had a hard time getting a scope to fit on it properly, but the gun itself is great. They are cheap, but if it breaks you can feel good that KT will repair it for you. For good cheap fun, its a winner.

I just added them up, I didnt write it or anything, but yes its fairly low this time.

turret is not much of an upgrade for a rifle. Take 223 for example, which is one of the things we shoot most of. It goes something like this: 1) put case on turret, deprime and size 2) remove from turret, trim the case 3) put it back on the turret, install primer if you can, if not 3b remove from turret, grind out primer crimp thingy from some cases... 4) powder/seat/crimp with it coming off the press once, if not twice, the gain over a single stage is questionable. I do the deprime and size in bulk, then trim in bulk, then back to the press. I toss the crimped cases that wont take a primer in a pile for later as I go. I use a lee turret and its awesome for simpler cases. For the 357 and 40 it will stay on the press from start to finish and 50 rounds will take like 15 min tops. For the rifles, due to trimming, its still nice, just frustrating to have to pull it off and on so much.

That star will eat up some pistol ammo, bring a fair amount of extra IMHO. I added it up for you (well, for me, but I will share) 12 birdshot 35 pistol 30 rifle Was the total I reached.

Um, this has to be said so sorry in advance: is this a good thread to say "pics or it didnt happen?" ... Sorry you got burnt, its one of those gun things, along with the gems of busting your thumb with the slide, cracking your finger in the trigger guard, pinching by slides and triggers, hot gas burns from holding your gun in a bad place, and the family of rifle mistakes including scope-eye, scope-nose, and the whole scope-face family, busted shoulder, hot barrel mistaken for a handle to fry your entire hand, and so on.... guns are dangerous, all right, its just not in the way people usually mean that statement... We have all had a few of these, at one time or another. I *still* get a busted thumb from the slide on a couple of guns that my hands do not fit well, these days its usually from trying somone else's gun and not paying attention. I rarely get burnt but did this past week when I sat on a 223 shell from my wife's spree. Them things are HOT.

Well I can call the concept flawed a bit, as one of the biggest savings I know of is .380 which is a smallish caliber -- cut down from $15-20 per box to about $3. You do not save as much on 9mm because 9mm is produced in bulk for military purposes across the planet. Most of the cheap 9mm is steel cased or something, which is hard on guns and magazines that were not made for it, or basically inferior ammo in some way. Reloads that cost the same as the rock bottom cheap 9mm are more consistent and better quality all around for the same price, or, you are saving money vs higher priced 9mm ammo, whichever way you look at it, but it is still not as good a savings as most other calibers because 9mm is a cheap to buy caliber -- at the most you save less than 1-3 bucks on a box of 50. In that respect, 9mm is an anomaly because it is so cheap, and 380 is an anomaly because it is so costly. In general, then, yes the bigger the round the better the savings, with rifle rounds costing a fraction of the ~buck a round factory ammo prices. 45 is a huge savings, from $20 a box to far less than 1/2 that. 357 is also going to be a huge savings esp if you make light target loads, using less powder or lighter bullets etc, for a revolver --- you can basically reload to 38 special specs in a 357 case, or even load 38s to save even more money. For an auto 357 you have to make it able to cycle the action: I see this on my 44 mags, my revolvers are fun with 15 grains of powder while my auto takes 17.5 to cycle the action, for example, whcih adds a cent or so to each shot. To make a long story short, you have 2 perfect calibers for saving some money by reloading =)

Ill have to disagree, lol, she was looking somewhere far, far away from her target when she fired. But at least she tried it, a lot of women won't. Tell her to go again without any fear of it now that she knows what it will do, bet she puts one dead center if she is like most women shooters...

Save that brass then. While you can cut down 9mm to fit, its tedious, so saving any real brass is a great thing to do. You can reload it for about $3-4 a box. If you dont care to do that now, just store it away for someday when the ammo is harder to get.

Both work well. Silver is better quality and easier on the gun. Sellier and belliot makes (or once did?) brass ammo that can be reloaded if you ever decide to go there, its a little higher. Watch out for any surplus ammo, its not common anymore but it IS corrosive and I strongly advise you to never shoot that, it can be cleaned up after but its just not worth the trouble, and if you miss some of the residue it will rust up your gun.

buffalo bore, ball ammo and JHP alternated, just get 1 box of each.

Its buying into the PC crap, to be blunt. You can't say "lets mow down the ****ians or the ****s" or anything else without causing a stir. You cannot even say terrorists/extremists/etc, because that has "racial overtones" or implies killing of folks over their religion, etc. Zombies are safe: they are not real and can be used as a PC substitute for the real (or imagined) threats.

you know, it wouldnt look half bad if you just had the skull part blacked like the surrounding area... that might be easy to do for even a novice leather worker.

Guns were meant to be shot. It won't hurt it if you are careful, unless you plan on wearing it out with a couple hundred thousand rounds or inappropriate ammo.

I can just see how that might have turned out. Im bond, james bond. And this is a .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world. I say old chap, are you feeling lucky today...? I understand the conversation but bond just isnt a revolver man. What he NEEDS is for Q to make his 380 have a thick barrel, handload the ammo to 9mm +p standards, and move along from there...

Check the kel tech owners group site for tips, several folks have said the same. The trigger pull can be adjusted a little bit in a few ways, DIY stuff. Its a DAO, the trigger reset is the entire pull... so all you can do is adjust the length of pull (slightly) and pull weight (slightly) and possibly do something to the guard (not sure).

as a sig fan, you might like the p238. I replaced my p-40 (same as p-11) with a px4 beretta but its very, very fat and wouldnt do for you probably. The lc9 by ruger is a p-11 replacement in 9mm but not a single person I have talked to actually likes the thing... they seem to work fine but I hear everything from bad trigger to high recoil and more. All the small 9mms and 40s are DAO and pretty horrid all around. If you like 9mm and 1911s para makes a couple of small versions in 9mm, single stack and thinish. I found the sig to be the best option though, overall. It replaced my makarov, which is somewhat bigger but still quite slim and not a large gun. I my mak, but the sig cuts one size off it which helps for those times when you really need a very small gun. Oh, and NAA makes a very small 380 DAO semi automatic along with its tiny revolvers.

30-30 is a short range gun and not exactly a flat shooter. 308 is better for longer ranges, period. 30-06 is exactly the same as a 308 for all practical purposes (its a little better, actually, but the difference is slight). 243 is also a good choice, but I am unsure of it for an elk (I know little of how big an elk is?). Basically, while the 30-30 is a great caliber for some things, I would skip it if you want something that shoots flatter or longer. You can find all sorts of ballistic tables for free online to compare a couple of rounds for trajectory. 30-30 isnt too light, it hits hard at 100 yards. You want something cheap, consider a military surplus rifle. These are in calibers that compare well to a 308, give or take, and the rifle + a ton of ammo can be had all for under $300 or so. Just have to be careful to find a gun in decent condition that can still shoot straight, but that isnt too hard -- any mauser, for example, that has a clean barrel will do it, or a good condition mosin, etc.

thats fair, cz is around $200-250 and again 250 ammo is about $50 in value so its a reasonable price. They are fine guns.

Someday you should try a mak, I think you might like the original. Cz is a better carry gun but the maks really feel good, at least in my hands. Thats a little high, but depends a lot on the ammo type. Excellent exterior condition, possibly/probably unfired. I would pay it, probably try to sneak $50 or so off his offer, but I would buy that with no regrets if I were looking for such.

beretta makes a tip up barrel in 32 that is exactly like your 25. My wife really likes our sip p238s, those are 380s but easy to rack the slide (she has trouble with many guns as well). Can you handle the DAO triggers on the guns you mentioned like the kel tec? Have you looked at the cornered cat web site, which gives great tips for women to rack a slide?

Time to go third person to make up good headlines, something like "congressman sends pictures of weiner to woman" which would work even if he were fully clothed in the picture, thanks to his name...

Having seen enough elderly family members and friends waste away slowly, in great pain and unable to enjoy anything at all, I am convinced that there is a time and a place where some folks should be allowed to say "let me die". If the patient, family, and doctor can all agree, that is enough for me.

While you can do it with any semi, some have a "safety" that prevents shooting without a mag. Also, if you are careful, you can even slip it into the extractor properly without damage, but this is difficult to manage on smaller calibers and somewhat easier on large calibers. Just put it behind the extractor and gently lower the slide instead of slamming it home.

1911 the MOST accurate? I suppose, sort of. After spending 10 times as much, its equally as accurate as any other accurate pistol, except the .45 acp has the ballistics of a catapult. At 50 yards, one accurate handgun is much like another, and yes, a good 1911 is as good as any and better than most. But at 100 yards, or 200, the caliber alone makes it a questionable claim that it is the MOST accurate. Magnum calibers and pistols that fire rifle rounds destroy the 1911 at longer ranges, even my cheap as it gets plr16 can hit a pretty solid group at 200 yards, and my desert eagle 44 can pass 100 yards accurately as well, I havent tried to take that to 200 with only fixed iron sights on it. If you want a really disturbing example, the bullesye 22s are a fraction the cost of the 45 and equally as accurate... And those are the high dollar 1911s. Most of the less expensive ones are less accurate than a $200 makarov or revolver or other fixed barrel gun. I love to shoot my 1911, it feels great and so on. But to say any of them are more accurate than any other gun that has had an equal amount of gunsmithing love applied, is just not fair. I am willing to bet if you dropped $1500 of pistolsmithing and parts replacement effort into any gun that it would keep pace with a 1911 all day long. And, if you take any 1911 out of the box that cost the same as the gun you want to compare it against, they will probably both be about equally inaccurate.

I think the worst one I have is a S&W .22 model 61. It was like new, tried it out and nothing but jams. Tore it down and for a gun that fits in the palm of your hand, it sure does have a LOT of parts. A month later, cleaned and lubed and finally reassembled it still would not work. Tried hot cci ammo and it could not ignite the hard primers, and other ammo cannot cycle the action properly. For a gun designed to be your last resort BUG, its a POS... I guess they knew that, they only made it for 1 or 2 years before giving up on the design. Its attractive and solidly made, just does not work.