Jump to content



Castle doctrine question

Recommended Posts

I got an email back from Senator Ketron with the opinion of his legal department... 



Sen Ketron:
Below is our opinion on his questions:
(e)  (1)  It is an exception to the application of subsection (a) that a person is carrying or possessing a firearm or firearm ammunition in a motor vehicle if the person:
       (A)  Is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm by 18 U.S.C. 922(g) or purchasing a firearm by 39-17-1316; and
       (B)  Is in lawful possession of the motor vehicle.
    (2)  As used in this subsection (e):
       (A)  Motor vehicle has the same meaning as defined in 55-1-103;
       (B)  Motor vehicle does not include any motor vehicle that is:
           (i)  Owned or leased by a governmental or private entity that has adopted a written policy prohibiting firearms or ammunition not required for employment within such a motor vehicle; and
           (ii)  Provided by such entity to an employee for use during the course of employment. 
Above is the statutory provision about which Mr. (DaveTN) is concerned and these are this questions:
(1)     Does 39-17-1307 (e) (1) (A) prohibit 18-20 year olds from possessing a handgun in their vehicle?  We believe § 39-17-1316 prevents an 18-20 year old from carrying a handgun in his car in spite of § 39-17-1307(e).  The exception in (e) says you cannot be prohibited from purchasing a firearm by § 39-17-1316 in order of (e) to apply.  That section is Tennessee law concerning who can purchase a handgun. Under federal law, a person much be 21 to purchase a handgun.  That is from a licensed firearms dealer as Mr. (DaveTN) points out and not a private transfer.  Federal law also makes it unlawful for a person who is not a dealer to sell or transfer a handgun to a person younger than 18 and requires that a person be at least 18 to lawfully possess a handgun. The law appears silent on how old you would have to be to make a legal private transfer but you would have to be at least 18 to possess a handgun.  Although § 39-17-1316 does not apply to private transfers it says that for § 39-17-1307 to apply, the person must not be prohibited from purchasing a firearm under § 39-17-1316, which applies to licensed firearms dealers.  Because an 18-20 year old cannot purchase a handgun from a licensed firearms dealer under federal law, so the 18-20 year old does not meet one of the exceptions of set out in § 39-17-1307(e) and therefore, the exception in (e) would not apply to the 18-20 year old regardless of how he or she obtained the handgun.

(2)    Can 18-20 year olds possess a long gun in their vehicle?  It is difficult to give a definitive answer to Question 2.  Section 39-17-1307(a) says it is an offense for a person to carry any firearm (long gun or handgun)  but subsection § 39-17-1307(e) is an exception to unlawful carrying or a firearm under those specific circumstances. Even though a person 18-20 could buy a long gun under § 39-17-1316, they could not buy a handgun.  Thus there is an argument that the exclusion in § 39-17-1307 does not apply to the 18-20 year old because they are prohibited from purchasing certain firearms under § 39-17-1316 (handguns).

(3)    Does the 21 year old handgun transfer limitation by Federal law imposed on licensed firearm dealers apply to transfers by Tennessee residents in private transfers? We can find nothing in Tennessee law that sets an age requirement for purchasing a firearm in a legal private transaction.  However federal law does prevent a person under 18 from possessing a handgun and does prevent a person from selling transferring a handgun to someone under 18 years of age.  Tennessee law (§ 39-17-1320 prohibits giving a handgun to a juvenile (which presumably means a private transaction involving the sale or transfer) and § 39-17-1319 makes possession of a handgun by a juvenile a delinquent act, presumably whether acquired by private or dealer transaction.  Without it specifically stating it anywhere, by inference a person would have to be 18 to purchase a handgun under a private transaction or a  purchase a firearm other than a handgun from a licensed dealer to comply with federal law and Tennessee law.

Because this is a confusing area that requires many inferences to be made, we recommend that getting an AG opinion on this is probably the only way Mr. (DaveTN) is going to accept the answer.



  • Like 4

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

And yet to keep the water muddy, TN permits 18-20 yo to obtain a HCP and thus carry in their POV.

  • Like 1

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me that 3 pages of comments by gun owners about the interpretation of a change in a gun law is an indictment of the legislature that passed a bill that isn't plain to a reasonably educated person.    Reminds me of the joke "What do you have with 100 attorneys on the bottom of the ocean?   A good start"   Could add politicians and cover the few who are not attorneys.    Sorry if I offend any attorneys but it sure seems they complicate the language of our laws, either directly or indirectly with their court cases

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

When it comes to any part of the 2nd Amendment and it's deifinition when has a Federal, State or local government ever written a law in plain English so any layman can understand it? I would be willing to bet 90% of most policemen or any level of Law Enforcement can't actually explain in layman terms what any law reads so when in question they just arrest you and let the judge and the courts decide what the law interpets.(That is if they are able to translate it) Do I think they do this on purpose?   Of course they do like,  chances R said, "just to keep the water muddy."

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • By Dennis1209
      Hey folks, it' been awhile since I was last here. Picked up a few guns since I was last on here. One in particular I'm really impressed with that I should have taken a picture of the targets. Shooting from 5, 10 and 12 yards all hits were within the size of a pie plate and the trigger is the best I've ever felt on a striker pistol. It's smooth and the reset is the best I've ever encountered. It's a long story and to keep everyone from falling asleep I'll keep it as brief as possible.
      Last month I shot so well in our monthly IDPA match with my G19, which I switch back and forth between a Kimber Pro Rapter .45, I decided I wanted a duty size gun for competition and a longer sight radius. I had my mind made up on a G34, that is until I walked into the local gun shop and our club treasurer was working at the time. They didn't have the G34 in stock but would order it for me, but he pulled out another full size nice looking 9mm of which I had never heard the name of before. He and the other sales guy working there were praising it and saying they both had one and loved it. So I fondled it for about 10 minutes, pulled the trigger some and checked the reset, etc. I looked at all the gizmos and gadgets that came with it and asked the price. With tax less than $500.00. SOLD!
      The pistol I'm referring to is the Canik TP9 SFx. There's nothing like buying a pistol first, then looking at all the Youtube video's and reviews afterward is there? Like any handgun, there are a few detractors out there, but most praise this Turkish pistol. The only draw back I've found so far was finding a holster for it, in LEFT - HAND, that was a chore. I'm anxious to see if and how much it improves my IDPA and steel match scores. Did I mention it comes with two - twenty round magazines? What a gun for the money. No, I'm in no way associated with them...
      I covered Keyholing on my Heritage Rough Rider 22 six shooter revolver under a topic I had started previously (started when buying the gun). a Heritage Rough Rider 22 It's as you know a rather cheap gun (paid $119 for it). I have been happy with it as fun to shoot, play cowboy, loading and unloading one at a time, cocking the hammer to fire single action. Just like Wyatt. HA!
      Anyway, I decided to expand the Keyholing events with a New Post regarding in hopes of getting more information about causes. There is some info on Internet search (GOOGLE) under the word Keyholing. You also get some U-Tube (of course). A friend of mine is somewhat of a gun expert (did some gunsmith work as more of a hobby) and also provided some inputs.
      Just wondering if any other inputs from YOU ALL?
      In my case, none or very little evidence of Keyholing but sometime ago I saw elongated holes in targets VS nice round little 22 caliber holes. A couple days ago at the range -- it really was BAD. Showed up, but accuracy not bad at 20 foot (4 inch target).  Then went to 30 foot and had only three in 4 inch (rest within say 6 inch) and of course elongated holes (Keyholing).  
      Hopefully, I can show pictures here.  I could not on the previous post due to limit of 40.9KB. GROAN
      First Picture is at 30 foot and 4 inch target (keyholing very evident). Like I said, I had also shot at 20 foot target and msot all in the black, but obvious Keyholing there also. 
      I have reduced the pictures to like 15KB files -- see what happens.
      DANG, now says can only use 10.2 KB (WHAT IS THE DEAL ON THESE LIMITS?).
      Reduced to 9.0KB (might be too small to see) - it allowed that. However, pretty small picture, think can still see how the holes are not little round 22 Caliber Holes and accuracy is way off (14 rounds at 30 foot 4 inch target).  

      What started this was I stopped by Knifeworks (Hwy 66 Sevierville) just looking around. I spotted three GSG Firefly (like old Sig Mosquito) and took a look (at $189.99 nice gun with threaded barrel extended past frame).
      Spent some time looking at reviews (U-Tube) and ran into U-Tube on GSG 1911 22LR. 
      Back at Knifeworks and asked if they had any 1911 22LR?
       Guy said yes, it's an American Tactical. He got it out to look at and it was a GSG 1911 22LR (American Tactical of Summerville, SC is the importer -- gun comes from Germany).
      I like the features on the Firefly feel and features (it's similar to 1911 with easier controls and is 4 inch barrel, but with extension measures 4 5/8 barrel).
      That said, I liked the idea of owning a 1911 even if it is only a 22LR (can afford to shoot it is a nice feature over say a 45). Also, the reviews on U-Tube I felt give it a better rating (still it is recommended to use HV AMMO -- 1250 FPS as is the Firefly).
      All that, I decided I just wanted to own a 1911 and at $239.99 not bad. Mostly going to target and plink anyway.  
      So, shot it today about 130 rounds using 4 different AMMOS. Scared me the first two shots as it failed to load (that was with Blazer 22 LR 1235 FPS). Then shot 28 more - no fails. It's lead nosed AMMO.  
      Final result summary.
      I had a COUPLE MORE FAILURES (4 all together with 47 rounds) using the Blazer AMMO. 1250 FPS
      I had NO FAILURES with American Eagle Hollow Point Cooper Coated AMMO. Don't no FPS
      I had NO FAILURES with some Remington lead nosed AMMO. Don't know FPS
      I had Four FAILURES with Federal lead nosed AMMO (probably some bulk low priced I had). Don't know speed. 
      All and all I was pretty satisfied with new gun (first shooting). I did take it down the night before and lube things (it was very dry).  
      Accuracy for ME SHOOTING (20 feet and one target at 30 feet -- all sitting on chair and elbows on table) was satisfactory (most shots well within a 4 inch target and many with in 3 inches). I am not a marksmen at 80 years old.
      It did take me a couple shots to know where to set the sights (front on back dots and aim a bit below the bulls eye) I like aim below target to see target and turns out that is the way it was out of the box.  
      The gun comes with four sets of front sights (to adjust elevation). The rear sight does not have the normal windage adjustment -- you can adjust by loosening the hold down screw and rotating the rear sight (windage seems right on for me).
      Trigger pull is real smooth and very little take up.   
      BY THE WAY --- Lifetime Warranty that passes to nest owner per American Tactical. I called them as manual said 2 years. They said they had changed that and I was seeing an old manual.   
      This web site stopped me from putting pictures in on a previous post -- I will try. Could not as says only allowed 40.9KB, mine are 49KB to about 70KB. 

The Fine Print

Tennessee Gun Owners (TNGunOwners.com) is the premier Community and Discussion Forum for gun owners, firearm enthusiasts, sportsmen and Second Amendment proponents in the state of Tennessee and surrounding region.
TNGunOwners.com (TGO) is a presentation of Enthusiast Productions. The TGO state flag logo and the TGO tri-hole "icon" logo are trademarks of Tennessee Gun Owners. The TGO logos and all content presented on this site may not be reproduced in any form without express written permission. The opinions expressed on TGO are those of their authors and do not necessarily reflect those of the site's owners or staff.
Before engaging in any transaction of goods or services on TGO, all parties involved must know and follow the local, state and Federal laws regarding those transactions. TGO makes no claims, guarantees or assurances regarding any such transactions.

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to the following.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Guidelines