A tale of an old man, a Turkish handgun, a cheap optic and uncertainty.

[turkeydad]

So on a whim I bought a SarUSA P8S stainless on clearance from PSA like $299. Not for any specific reason other than to just mess with it. I've been wanting to try a pistol optic and possibly someday a suppressor. I confirmed with a dude at SarUSA the existence and availability of a threaded barrel and he was cool as heck and confirmed the 4.3" threaded barrel they sell can be had without ports so if I do decide to get a suppressor I should be good.There was some "drama" getting a functional plate...The nice dude from Sar sent me to Galloway Precision who had one that replaces the rear dovetail...not good at all...sent it back ended up getting one on SarUSAs website that works fine for what it is. But both companies did answer the phone and tried and I got what I needed and a no hassle return on the mistake...so good on both them.

I picked up the Osight S on the cheap cause I can't afford to go "buy once cry once" on a concept that I may just hate. I just wanted something cheap and a donut of death as my astigmatism is problematic with dots. I really like it. The auto brightness seems pretty doggone good even in shade looking out into sun. So far everything with it has worked like it's supposed to.

I on the other hand I am struggling a little. I think I'm getting better at it but if I'm aiming down I have trouble finding my donut...aiming level no trouble...aiming up no trouble. 

I'm sure if the slide was milled and there was even a sniff of cowitness that I wouldn't have the problem. But if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's rump everytime it took a jump...

 

 

Edited Monday at 03:47 AM by turkeydad

[BigK]

That looks like a CZ 75 Compact clone. How's the trigger? All my CZs except my Shadow had gritty triggers to start, but nothing 200-300 rounds didn't cure.

I'm only just getting into red dots too. I have a CZ P-09 C w/ a Holosun EPS. I'm struggling to get used to picking up the dot, but it's coming along. I dig it enough that I'm already planning to get my P365 slide milled for a red dot. I'm glad you like the Osight, because for the price and the fact that I've had excellent experience with their lights, I think I'll go with an Osight. 

[Will Carry]

Thanks for the post Turkeydad! I have many handguns but none of them are optic ready.  I am still using iron sites.  I just cannot justify spending money on a pistol with red dot sites that will make my other carry guns obsolete........I know, that is flawed logic.  I am recovering from a shoulder replacement now and cannot shoot anyway.  That will give me time to think about it. 

[chances R]

I use and recommend the Ameriglo Haven.  Owned by Trijicon and I know of at least 6 others in use beside the two I own.  Should be less than $200.  

[larry1096]

Over the last few years I've gone from no handgun optics to having them on all my carry guns. 

The good news is you'll learn to pick up the dot just like you learned to pick up the sights. The bad news is that's through repetition. 

Presentation drills (you don't even need to dry-fire, just 'present, place dot on target, repeat') helps a lot. Ben Stoeger also has some good videos about this, where he breaks it down in great detail.

For me, optics have been a game changer; my eyesight had degraded to where shooting at 25 yards (where I used to be able to shoot 1 1/2" groups on a good day) was just about impossible. With the dot, I can do a Dicken drill clean (10 for 10) with relative ease, and shoot one hole groups again with my target guns. It's worth the effort.

 

Larry

[JustEd]

Don't know if it is possible to mill the slide.  If you can, having the optic lower makes a huge difference in acquiring the dot quickly.  I would pay for that long before playing with a suppressor.

[Thearmededucator]

Milling's major benefit is in the security of the mount, any marginal difference in finding the dot is well down the list. 

Cowitness actually is a detriment in Red Dot systems.

The real solution is more time on the dot. Mike Ox has a good book/virtual training course called Red Dot Mastery that I would highly suggest. 

That said, the secret is the work, if you want to get the most out of the RDS

[TGO David]

41 minutes ago, Thearmededucator said:

That said, the secret is the work, if you want to get the most out of the RDS

 

^^^ All of this, right here.

There are tricks that can help a person acclimate to it more quickly, but the fact remains that this is a journey that never ends.  Perfect practice makes perfect.  More reps over more time just makes you better and better at it and keeps your proficiency intact.

 

[turkeydad]

11 hours ago, BigK said:

That looks like a CZ 75 Compact clone. How's the trigger? All my CZs except my Shadow had gritty triggers to start, but nothing 200-300 rounds didn't cure.

I'm only just getting into red dots too. I have a CZ P-09 C w/ a Holosun EPS. I'm struggling to get used to picking up the dot, but it's coming along. I dig it enough that I'm already planning to get my P365 slide milled for a red dot. I'm glad you like the Osight, because for the price and the fact that I've had excellent experience with their lights, I think I'll go with an Osight. 

The trigger is pretty decent...it was a little gritty feeling but that went away after just a little shooting. It is a CZ clone and the trigger really reminds me of the P01 that I used to have that was unmodified when it was new....and it got better the more I shot it. Of course the trigger on the Cajonized P01 that I still own is far superior. So yeah the trigger is what you would expect from a double action CZ trigger. All in all it's a pretty nice gun especially for that kind of money. 

But yeah so far so good on the little O Sight S it zeroed well has held it fine (so far) and I've messed with it a bunch without using the charge hood just to get a notion on how long it's on board charge storage lasts (since it technically doesn't have a battery) and there  seems to be no issue with worrying about charge life as it's consumed less than 20 % in the 6 weeks that I've had it and I've messed with it alot and I mean alot. And the hood will recharge the optic 3 times on a single charge via USB C which doesn't take long. Closed emitter...the glass is clear no fish eye at all. I didn't "torture test" it but I did put it under water for about 15 minutes to see if I could detect any water getting in it...and I didn't. 

[turkeydad]

2 hours ago, Will Carry said:

Thanks for the post Turkeydad! I have many handguns but none of them are optic ready.  I am still using iron sites.  I just cannot justify spending money on a pistol with red dot sites that will make my other carry guns obsolete........I know, that is flawed logic.  I am recovering from a shoulder replacement now and cannot shoot anyway.  That will give me time to think about it. 

I was in the exact same boat....there was no way I was gonna drop a ton of money on a guaranteed "carry worthy" optics ready pistol and a high dollar RDS without some experimentation. And I ain't even thinking about modifying any of my "streetable" carry guns to experiment with. What convinced me to "pull the trigger" on the purchase was the clearance sale... It made me feel like I could get a larger portion of my money back selling it used if I just hate it. But so far I don't...

[turkeydad]

1 hour ago, larry1096 said:

Over the last few years I've gone from no handgun optics to having them on all my carry guns. 

The good news is you'll learn to pick up the dot just like you learned to pick up the sights. The bad news is that's through repetition. 

Presentation drills (you don't even need to dry-fire, just 'present, place dot on target, repeat') helps a lot. Ben Stoeger also has some good videos about this, where he breaks it down in great detail.

For me, optics have been a game changer; my eyesight had degraded to where shooting at 25 yards (where I used to be able to shoot 1 1/2" groups on a good day) was just about impossible. With the dot, I can do a Dicken drill clean (10 for 10) with relative ease, and shoot one hole groups again with my target guns. It's worth the effort.

 

Larry

That makes me feel a little better....cause what you called presentation drills is what I've been doing since I took it out to shoot...and it is getting better. My cat Frank Castle Mclovin probably thinks I've lost my mind drawing down on imaginary bad guys all the time...

Edited Monday at 05:19 PM by turkeydad

[turkeydad]

1 hour ago, Thearmededucator said:

Milling's major benefit is in the security of the mount, any marginal difference in finding the dot is well down the list. 

Cowitness actually is a detriment in Red Dot systems.

The real solution is more time on the dot. Mike Ox has a good book/virtual training course called Red Dot Mastery that I would highly suggest. 

That said, the secret is the work, if you want to get the most out of the RDS

Thanks...and I certainly agree with milling being the way if a feller was carrying with an optic on the streets. At this point I don't think I would ever pay to get the slide milled on that Sar. But if my affinity to optics on a pistol grew to the point that I believed carrying with an RDS would benefit me in the streets I'd pay to get that done to my P01 and call it money well spent.

Edited Monday at 05:28 PM by turkeydad

[MEGASTAR]

Sarsilmaz has been making CZ clones for decades. 

As far as cheap Turk Glockish guns, the Stoegers are my choice. I'll do a separate post on it.