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reed1285

winchester black talon?

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[quote name='JAB' timestamp='1352835403' post='844921']
. Unless I am mistaken, there was also some concern from surgeons, etc. that the sharp points (talons) could make the bullets dangerous to medical personnel who were attempting to remove them from wounds.

I don't always trust Wikipedia but having read through this article I think it is a pretty good one:

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon"]http://en.wikipedia....iki/Black_Talon[/url]
[/quote]


Shot this weekend with a gentleman who used to work for Nashville PD. He said the ER personnel used to complain about them not calling ahead when they had shot someone with talons when they issued them. He said they needed to get thicker gloves! This was in response to my mag of Ranger Ts in my bag.

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Always heard it was the piercer that was in the middle of the hollow point. They got them the name of cop killers because they were supposed to go through bulletproof vest

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[quote name='roc' timestamp='1354861076' post='856321']Always heard it was the piercer that was in the middle of the hollow point. They got them the name of cop killers because they were supposed to go through bulletproof vest[/quote]
Nope. You heard a bunch of crap.

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I have had the opportunity to speak with a surgeon about this round. He did a lot of fornesic testing for the government and he told me one of the primary reasons for discontinuing this ammo in the past. I do not have any information for the current flavors.

He told me that in the ER, when working on a gunshot victim, the most common way of finding a bullet in the body is to probe with your fingers. The problem is the way that the jacket of the Talon folds back. It peels rearward until it contacts the base of the bullet and the bends outwards 90 degrees to the CL of the bullet. These petals produce an extremely sharp point that can puncture the gloves of the surgeon. Even if the gloves are doubled up, the tip can still penetrate and cut the surgeon's finger. This can lead to the surgeon contracting HIV/AIDS inadvertently if the victim is positive.

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Winchester's old Black Talon is not the same round as the current Ranger-T or PDX-1.

 

The Ranger-T is a redesigned version of the original BT and offers superior performance.  IIRC, the design change occured in 1999.

PDX-1 is a different animal altogether (bonded, etc.).

Edited by TN-popo

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I also have a box of the original black talons and was told by a LEO that they are illegal to carry. He is a retired police chief from Knoxville TN.

 

He is also very misinformed.

 

That said, for those that still carry Black Talons, I ask...

1.  Do you really want to carry ammo that is 20ish years old if you don't have to?

2.  Especially when there are better performing choices, clearly, out there (Gold Dot, Ranger-T, HST)?

Edited by TN-popo
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Always heard it was the piercer that was in the middle of the hollow point. They got them the name of cop killers because they were supposed to go through bulletproof vest

You may mean the the 'post' in a Federal Hydra-Shok.  However, it won't penetrate body armor, either. 

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I bought a bunch of Black Tallon back in the day and still have several boxes of it. It was, at least arguably, the best commercial self-defense load of its day but there are recent, excellent production loads today that probably do at least as well if not better.

 

That said, I won't part with what I have unless it leaves the end of the barrel of one of my 1911s in the middle of the night!

Edited by RobertNashville

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