Warbird

9mm is insufficient. The argument about shooting them with a bow and arrow so it is sufficient with a 9mm is a poor analogy at best. Bow hunters have an advantage, they sit in tree stands above bait in most cases. More often than not the bear never sees the hunter. In a scenario like this the bear sees you and may have the advantage on you for any number of reasons. If it attacks it is because it is highly agitated or protective, its running on instinct. A bow and arrow in this kind of circumstance would be insufficient as well. Would a 9mm kill a bear? Maybe with a perfect shot. Now make that shot on a charging large animal with your pucker factor at an all time high. My bet is 99% of people couldn't do it. This is a shot that will be very close, maybe the animal on you. The minimum sufficient round is a 357 magnum. The solid, hot 357 will go through the engine block of a car and will penetrate a bear well. A 44mag would be better, but you have a 357, so use it. My protective sidearms are a 357 4" and a bowen 454 Casull. By the way you mentioned a 1911 after someone talked of a 45. The 45 acp is way insufficient. They were talking about the 45 LC, which is still too light IMO. You never know when you will come across a bear and certainly never know when they may have a cub or two. If the cub is small the sow may get protective. Usually as others have said they will run and will always run to keep their cubs out of any situation, unless for whatever reasosn they sense they have no escape. I myself was standing less than 50 yards from a grizzly sow and her 2 cubs just last week. It was unexpected and I wasn't thrilled to have them in my way. She stood checked us out, then took her cubs out of there. Best of luck and safe hiking.

I have a pair of the Ruger Bisley Vaqueros in 45 LC. They have thousands of rounds through them and nary ever a problem. They are tough as nails and personally I like the way the Bisley points better than the SAA. But the regular Vaquero is a well made gun. Ruger did indeed do it right by building a modern gun on the inside with the appearance of a 19th century gun. For whatever reason I prefer the old style fixed sights and appearance of the vaquero line. Never have been much on the Blackhawk, but it is a fine shooting gun. The Lipsey deal is a good one right now.

I bet somebody here would be willing to meet up with you one day and tutelage you. The Beretta is a good first choice. It is big and heavy enough to have little recoil. It is fairly simple and easy to shoot and has plenty of safety features. Spend some time with a knowledgeable person or take a class, then you will start with good habits and be further down the road than you might think. Fear not there will be plenty of people at any range who have little to no experience. And some folks think they are good, but aren't. Go at your own pace and you will be shooting well in no time.

I will say you have excellent taste in revolvers. They were all great pistols. I had one a while back and still regret selling it. Also sorry I sold my Ruger Redhawk, 7 1/2 44 mag. Oh well.

Hey, you were the one who started making generalizations. I simply pointed out the fallacies of it. You don't like that apparently and accused me of the same. You based your opinions on a limited scope or were simply trying to make it seem as though you knew something others did not, calling the mags full of crap. I am not the one who was condescending, you were. Do I think some mag stories are crappy yes, just as many internet gun board surfers are full of crap. I am knowledgeable enough to know there are many guns out there the 'pros' use and that I have never had one, not one single one say they carried a bug because they carry a 1911. If they carry one, it is based on the fact that they are in situations which lend them to believe they may need more than one firearm. Most of these people in fact carry 2 guns of the same or similar make-up in my experience, ie 2 1911's, 2 Glocks, 2 Sigs, HK's or any number of other things. For many others the pistol itself could be considered a bug as the primary weapon is an MP5 or other such short sub. I have read enough of your political comments to know you like to be contrarian and easily offend. I have no desire to offend anyone. I simply said you made a generalization which I disagreed with based on fact. The fact that you attacked back indicated that you were shooting at the hip. If that is not the case, then I will surmise you made a point based on possibly a wide, though not deep, level of experience. I do not need to know you to disagree with you and I was not condescending and I never said let's compare bona fides, I am not going there. I offer advice when I think it is pertinent or knowledge I think might contribute, and sometimes ask others their advice on guns or gear I have less experience with. This should be a fun place, I have no desire to see it otherwise. However, when you make a comment that is sweeping and could deter someone from a gun which they would possibly like to own based on erroneous information from you then I responded that your information lacked full knowledge. I stand by that. Have a good day.

Well I happen to pretty much know how many Glocks, XD's and M&P's have been sold and generally how many 1911 have been sold in the last say 30 years. I also know from personal experience of the people I come across. So mine is not a generalization. However your statement of the fact that 1911 carriers are something only found in magazines and those in real life carry a 'bug' is simply based on something you pulled from...... As to your second point, do I carry 1911? Yep sometimes. Do I carry a bug? Nope, not very often and it never pertains to what I happen to be carrying but to where I might be going. I also carry any one of three Glocks, which all have the same trigger weight as my 1911. And in say the last 5 years my primary carry gun has been an HK P7M8, again with the same trigger pull as the others. So that makes me one of those oddities I spoke of in my last post. You might need a bit more exposure to 'pros and operators' around the country dare say the world they travel,before you pontificate on the facts and fallacies of the habits of those who carry, especially the 'pros' and 'operators'.

You know I could be wrong, but to me from the pics I see I believe it to be an 1860 Navy. The 51 and 61 were 36 cal. The 61 had a short life because of the popularity of the 51 and it had little advantage to changing. The 60 however was a large step up in caliber and the stepped cylinder leads me to believe that is what it is. If that is what it is prices range from $1200 to $12-15k. There were approx 200k made. Unfortunately I do not know a knowledgeable Colt collector in the Kville area. One of the nation's most knowledgable lives just outside of Nashville. If worse comes to worse head to the Louisville Gun Show in Sept. National Gun Day.Com website - The best gun shows! I can guarantee you, you will find someone there who will know all about the gun and could appraise it.

I'd buy an old Mauser. Fun to shoot, inexpensive to buy for the most part, extremely accurate, inexpensive ammo, one of the truly great platforms. And they have very little recoil. I have taken my Mauser to shooting competitions against modern what you would call hunting guns, scoped non-tricked out guns and won the shoot with my iron sighted Mauser. These were side matches at meets, just for fun. I especially like the Mausers that were re-barreled by the Israeli's to 308. You can get a Mosin if that's what you are really into. I'm not one to tout them personally. I have between 3-5 of them, I forget, that I bought at Rose's for $39 many years ago. That is about as much I would ever give for one. But that's me.

What a sweeping generalization. Also untrue. I can guarantee you this, more people in this country carry 1911 pistols as their sole gun on them, than carry either and XD or an M&P. Glocks may give them a run for their money. In fact the vast vast majority of 'pros' I know, truly highly trained firearms experts, carry Glocks and 1911's. There are the odd others who carry something different. I'm taking out LEO's in this instance who have no choice in their weapon of carry. And these people have just as much faith, and justifiably so, in their 1911 as do Glock, XD or revolver carriers.

Some of the best in the bidness. Ron Fielder is also an instructor at Gunsite and has many years as a protege of Cooper under his belt and used to train with Louis Awerbuck, who I think is the best anywhere.. And John Brown who also instructs there is no slouch. They are based in Nashville, but train in Bucksnort. www.prifirearmstraining.com Take up that opportunity. You will get excellent training.

It's a field grade Ithaca Flues. You can search for the date of manufacture at the following website Serial Numbers by Dates of Production It was made in 1912. If you look under the forend you should also see an F marked there. Typically shotgun shells have lead unless marked steel. You do not want to shoot steel shot in it. THough they had 3" chambers, no larger than 2 3/4" should be used. Stick to light loads, not the hotter fast loads. As was said earlier modern collectors paid more attention to the AH Fox, Parker, Lefever and in recent years LC Smith. Lefever was another extremely well made gun, possibly the best of all of them and the rarest today. Ithaca collectors never marketed themselves nearly as much, but Ithaca who bought Lefever, is ranked right up there with the others in terms of durability and ability. These were the elite shotguns of the day. These are the American doubles worth something today. Though Ithaca bought Lefever, the Ithaca shotgun is far closer in design to the AH Fox than the Lefever in lockup. IMO the Ithaca and Fox for that matter, were never the prettiest designs of the elites. However, they have proven to possibly be the most durable, having less inherent problems than Parker and LC Smiths. I am not surprised your gun locks up tight, you really have to abuse them to loosen them up substantially. The field grade was then as it is now the working gun. They were not working guns however of the poor. They were fairly expensive in the day. But they were owned by successful upper middle income people as hunting guns and as the field gun for those who also owned the engraved pieces for clays and special hunts. Only the very wealthy owned many shotguns and these guns were used to hunt just about anything from rabbit to waterfowl. you could buy them from 26" to 32", most common probably being 26, 28 and 30. A 26' was probably a grouse gun, pheasant, and rabbit. The longer barreled guns likely were originally bought buy waterfowlers. Though these might have been their primary duties as I said, they more than likely saw action in many different types of uses. It is always nice to have heirlooms, i have several myself. Use it well. That is what they were made for. This is not a wall hanger. I still shoot clays, vintage events and hunts and use them on regular hunts. I have put as much as 400 rounds in a weekend event through my Ithaca without so much as a hiccup. I said this in another thread not long ago, but get out with that gun and use it just as your ancestors did. I have found it a great way to connect my loves and passions with those long since gone who shared my same interests. It connects us all. Not so much has changed after all. perhaps that is the sentimentalist in me, but that my 2c, for what it's worth.

Need more info on the gun. Pics would be good. DO NOT use black powder in this gun! Standard modern ammo is just fine. Use lighter loads, say 1oz. And no steel shot. It is likely 2 3/4" chamber. Excellent guns.

The Witness has won literally thousands of IPSC matches and other shooting competitions over the years. They do not make the best conceal guns in the world, they are on the heavy side. However, they are among the very best shooting guns you can buy. I owned one that was barreled for 9 para and 9x21. It had thousands of rounds in it and nary a problem. Other than the 1911 no other gun made is more customizable than the CZ 75, Witness platform. The Witness is on par with the CZ in quality and its price, due to its lack of marketing for many years here, is extraordinarily good. I have owned a number of them and the CZ, both are excellent firearms.

Did anyone say you cannot kill a deer with a properly positioned shot from a 223? You could kill a deer with a properly positioned 17. You COULD kill a deer with a properly positioned swing from a bat.

Welcome to the HK Club. My favorite is still the P7 M8, which I have now carried more than any other pistol I have ever owned, recently passing the 228 in time served. It is w/o question the most accurate defense pistol I have ever shot. My only complaint of HK is the high bore sight radius of the USP, Hk's and P30. I might pick up a P30 anyway, with the LEO trigger. I think you pretty much get what you pay for, HK is the premiere, IMO, combat pistol maker out there. They are ready to go from day 1. I have found they surpass the quality of nearly any of the popular manuf out there. Some complain of the price, and it effects their market share, but again you get what you pay for. To me the price is not much of a hinderence, none of them cost nearly what my Over/Unders cost. And in fact most people spend the same amount, they just buy more guns. I'd rather have less guns, and more of what I need and like.

This is almost so preposterous that I don't want to respond, but feel compelled. There is no need to treat a poster like that, especially one who has shown to have a lot of experience hunting and time in at TGO trying to advise many others. It is especially bad considering you are wrong. So what you are saying is the 380, 9mm, 38 special and 357 all have the same power, since they are all the same caliber. Who is the one who sounds stupid? We aren't talking about definites, we are talking about odds. And we are talking about odds with a less experienced shooter, more likely to miss the great shot.

Again the OP was talking about a child on their first hunt, never having shot at a living thing in the field. This is not a discussion about an experienced shooter and hunter.

It's a great place to ride. I haven't been there in years. In fact I don't ride bikes anymore at all, but even after i stopped riding it I drove it a few times in sports cars. Some of the riders up there are incredible. I was a very good rider, growing up on bikes since I was 5, racing motocross, enduro and desert races until I was in my 20's. But I was up there once and was passed by a guy on a big Beemer, dressed out. Turned out he was a pro Suzuki rider, but man even on that bike he could scream. Talked to him an hour or two later at a meal break. I wrecked and broke a lot bones and tore up stuff riding dirt, but it is part of doing it. Rode a long time on streets w/o incident. The last time I went there on a bike there were 4 of us. I was on a GSXR 750. A buddy of mine was on a relatively new ZX7. I was behind him, in one turn and for some reason he bobbled, not sure if it was gravel that's what I expect, but he came up partially attempted to lean back in but never turned. Went off the road and hit a tree. That was it for him. Not 6months later I was riding with my roommate back from the Oregon coast to Portland. A guy swerved from the right lane into the left as we were passing and hit my roommate. He was sent flying and broke both shoulders, almost every rib and was in a coma for 2 weeks. The only thing that saved his skin as he flipped down the pavement was his full riding leathers. He fully recovered. I rode my bike from OR back to TN, but didn't touch it again for months. Eventually I sold it, I had just had enough. I think I just decided with klids by that point that I didn't want to risk it anymore. There was no hotdogging in either case and both were very experienced riders, but you just can't control everyone or everything around you. I loved it and rode for many years no matter the weather, only not riding in the worst winter weather. You riders be safe out there and never take anyone for granted. It's kind of like carrying a firearm, you have to remain in a constant state of situational awareness.

The 223 is not even close to the energy of a 30-6, less than half. Not a good comparison. The OP seems to want people to validate his thoughts on the AR 223. His mind is made up, that's fine. However, the 223 is marginal for deer, even for experienced hunters. But, they understand placement. It isn't a good choice for a beginner. A 243 or 270 is really a much better choice for a beginner. IMO it is inhumane to shoot something with a marginal round which will only leave an animal wounded and slow death unless the shot is right, but thats just me.

Just because one person can do it doesn't make it smart for another. Especially a novice shooter/hunter. There have been African elephants taken with small caliber bullets. And many died saying if it was good for ne it's good for another. No this doesn't compare to elephants or any dangerous game, but it illustrates a point to the extreme. An inferior round can still kill with a good shooter. A less experienced shooter should use a somewhat more powerful rifle/round. A 30 caliber is unnecessary. My pick would be a .270. Then let her get comfortable wit it and get some practice time.

Yes, I think it's a real advantage to have the builder close by, or relatively so.

Thanks Strick. I'm going to order one. Been vascillating between this the Fatboy and the 5.11

How large is the pistol compartment. Will it hold a Glcok 23 or similar size?

I would like to know what you think of these conversions and would you carry one of the converted barrels, or do you carry only the stock barrels. I have heard some say they do not recommend carrying the wolf barrels, but like to range shoot with them. I am also considering lessening the recoil on my 23 with a different spring. All that after having Robar lessen the grip width. The Glock just doesn't fit my hand well, but the alternatives are to me poorer in other areas. XD and M&P fit me better, but I think their triggers suck. Love HK, I carry a P7M8, but the new HK's have such a high bore sight radius it takes tremendous trigger time to become proficient. Same with Sig, I carried a 228 for many years, great gun too high a bore sight radius. I love the 23 and 27 for its durability and low bore sight radius, but honestly if I had it to do again I would buy the 9. I prefer the 9 or 45 to the 40.

Man that is testimony!