molonlabetn

I'm open to shooting at On-Target... That's where I usually go, anyways. I don't care too much for Gun City. Enticing me with food is a good way to get me out of the house... and, my wife (RedHead_1911) makes some killer buffalo-wings, if you're nice to her on here she might grace us with one of her excellent dishes... honey? The last weekend of July, or anytime in August would be okay with me... I think there's already a meetup planned in Chattanooga for the 3rd weekend of July, and there is a Tullahoma meetup (with class III toys) TBA. Welcome!

Welcome to TGO!

Me & RedHead probably won't be able to make it up there until later... If at all.

Ok, now for the ultimate test... If you fired a 10lb bowling ball at 38mph, directly at a hot 9mm coming from the opposite direction, so that they intercepted one another head-on with equal energy... which one would 'win'? What happens when a 350# linebacker hits a 200# running-back? food for thought...

That is true, but even so, the .357sig (and magnum) have shown superior terminal performance after passing through barriers... And less potencity to ricochet. I'll take a clean through-and-through vs. an un-predictable ricochet any-day! The odds are pretty low that any of us will have to use our weapons in self-defense, much less shoot through barriers... but there's truth in the saying "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it". The same applies to having an effective caliber as having a weapon at all. I doesn't surprise me that LEOs found modern 125gr JHPs performed better, terminally, than the old 158gr LRN loads... Surprisingly, this was the load which the .357sig is designed to emulate.

Yep... now, imagine that instead of a baseball, he is throwing a .32" steel rod at 100mph, to compare using the same frontal area... If I had to choose, I'd stand in front of the .32acp!

I got so wrapped up in my little calculation that I forgot to interject that... That's about right... I believe that soft-metal projectiles tend to expand more efficiently at higher velocities than at lower velocities, there are also advantages in terms of recoil and exponential kinetic energy bias towards faster projectiles. But, I have no particular affinity for small projectiles, just as long as it is large enough to carry sufficient momentum into the target far enough to produce an effect... I guess I'm in the big and fast crowd... But, for instance, if the FN Five-seveN's cartridge the 5.7x28, carried 500+ ft-lb of energy (instead of barely 300)... I would consider it a far more viable cartridge.

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say that the projectiles compared must be measured to carry 500ft-lb of energy, at the muzzle... regardless of how this is accomplished. Would a bowling ball thrown from a car going 38mph, or dropped from a 2-story building kill somebody? You betcha! will a 100gr projectile whizzing along at 1500fps do some serious damage? Of course! In practice, the construction and sectional density of the projectile itself will play a more significant role in its effectiveness than the combination of speed & weight used to achieve a specific energy level. A 230gr .45 slug has nearly identical sectional density as 115gr 9mm... so it falls to reason that given similar velocity, they will achieve results proportional to their size. Since a 230gr .45 slug generally carries notably less velocity than a comperable 115gr 9mm slug in common chamberings, the results will tend to even out, with regard to the total amount of the target medium displaced.

I see your point. I was heading more towards the position that of course any business can prohibit anything they wish on their property, but they should not be able to search me or my vehicle randomly. Concealed is concealed. Another issue is government employees, or contractor who works on federal property. Now, we all know that lowly serfs cannot be armed in those places, but it is a relevant question to ask... Should the government have the power to prohibit the possession of arms anywhere? I know of no Constitutional law which allows them to do this. Who answers to who? The government should answer to the people, not vice-versa... Even if those people are employed by the government which owns that property (paid for by tax-payers, you and me). The way that the 2nd Amendment is written does not specify that the RKBA shall not only be protected from infringement by the government... it says in absolute terms that it "shall not be infringed", period. And, while I would not detract from the sovereignty of any business or property owner from having the last say about whether they are open to the public or not... if they are indeed 'open to the public', let them not discriminate based on anything which is recognized as a right, or other characteristic already protected from discrimination. I do not argue that it is reasonable to wish for patrons to simply go to another business, if that business does not recognize American freedoms... but it is just as reasonable to wish for those businesses to simply go find another country to discriminate against their patrons in!

What if you have to fire under stress through a car door, windshield, or other barrier? It happens. I'm sure you'd prefer to have .357mag over .38special in the same hypothetical situation, with a revolver... Right?

I think a better solution would be to prohibit any business from being able to invade their employees' privacy by searching their vehicles (or persons), as part of an 'employment agreement'. They can have whatever rule they want on their property, but they have no right to detain, search, or seize any of my property or person, without having contacted the authorities to issue and exercise an applicable warrant with probable cause for illegal activity.

Sissies need to protect themselves too!

I'd be interested try for a 124-130gr JFP loaded to mimic a hot .38 super...

You'll be hearing from me if I ever finally get set up... I intend to reload .357sig in the future.

The grip-frame and trigger looks remarkably like the now-defunct Steyr polymer handgun... It's not the same, since it's a double-stack, but the resemblance to it is obvious.

Yeah, I've tried all the grip inserts... the smallest ones felt the best. Don't get me wrong, the M&P has one of the best grips on the market, for a poly handgun, and they point very well. Much better than a Block, either way... Something just isn't quite right though. Not that they feel bad, just a bit unnatural... I can't quite put my finger on it.

I would be considering a .45 M&P, but for the fact that I actually don't care for the grip on the M&P line as much as I keep trying to convince myself to... So far, the only polymer pistols which I can honestly say feel 100% 'right' in my hand are: Springfield XD H&K P2000 Walther P99 (S&W SW99) The XD and SW99 are the only 2 available in .45acp The XD and P2000 are the only 2 available in .357sig The only one of those which I would ever consider replacing my P239 with is the P2000,... When I do get the P2000, I will no longer want/need 2 different pistols for OC and CC, so I know that I'll be tempted to pursue acquiring a more full-size 'fun' pistol... hence the interest in the PX4. They are supposed to be very soft shooters.

Anyone own one and care to share their thoughts or comparisons with other pistols? I have been seeing reports that they will be making a .45acp version available soon, and after handling some of the current models, I might eventually give one a serious look. I'm most interested in how they hold up after significant use... Any problems?

Leather is very comfortable... I'll second the options from Don Hume.

Glad you all made it home safely. I shudder to think what may have happened if those thugs had stopped someone less prepared than your family. I second the suggestion to contact the authorities in that area, even if they can't track down those specific individuals, they need to know that is going on, so they can watch for it. That didn't sound like a one-time incident for them. Florida needs open-carry!

Tungsten, that is a nice ride... It'll take me a while to get my bowtie F-body that nice (but it will be someday). It'll be getting some hefty suspension attention this winter... And I've just about got the driveline beefed up to where it'll handle the engine I've got planned for it. I'll catch up with you later

Nice!

If I brought you a raw rib-eye... would you cook and serve it to me?

While this is true... he obviously had access to most areas of the airport while armed. What if someone like him did this, but was smart enough to avoid having his firearm x-rayed?

This is why we should be able to carry anywhere: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/is_2003_May_14/ai_101702220 No way I should be foreced to trust the TSA to defend my life!