EssOne

Yes, these things have a way of turning into real furballs. I've seen a case where the officer was not held to answer in criminal and civil court, supported by the Chief, and nonetheless fired by the City Manager. The City Manager was in turn fired because of the friction that arose with the Police Officers Association over the case, but the officer still lost his job and the Chief retired rather suddenly afterwards. Classic public service furball. I have seen a number of cases in my own Department in which the officer was likewise cleared of any criminal or civil wrongdoing, and yet fired for poor judgment. The case we're discussing has the potential to go sideways in this manner and I'm kind of holding my breath to see what shoe drops next.  

 I think that with the Chief's backing the officer will probably escape criticism unless the Department has a written policy forbidding such use of the patrol car to stop criminal suspects. Such a policy, if one exists, is usually found in the Department's Pursuit Policy under the subject of ramming, and can really come back to bite one in the posterior in a civil suit, even if the Chief says it was justified. A violation of Departmental policy resulting in injury is almost always a formidable issue in the plaintiff's favor in a lawsuit against the Department. And you can count on a lawsuit as much as you can count on the sun rising in the East tomorrow - somewhere an aggressive lawyer is going to take the spectacular nature of this thing, along with photos of the poor suspect all bandaged up, to try and convince a civil jury that it was, as enfield said, over the top and reckless.   Huevos grandes, Jefe. Huevos grandes.

It would be easier than that. Most officers are required under written Departmental policies to carry with a round chambered at all times. All the lawyer would have to do is get a copy of that policy and get it introduced into evidence. He wouldn't even have to call an officer to the stand.

One time I was directing traffic at a very complicated intersection when I saw an old man toddling out into the intersection on the green light. He only got about twenty feet into the crosswalk when a guy in a big Lincoln stopped in front of him, completely blocking the crosswalk. The old gent, walking with a lot of visible pain, left the crosswalk to walk around the front of the Lincoln, and when he got about dead center to its hood, he turned to face the driver and started beating the living hell out of the Lincoln's hood with his cane. Bystanders cheered the old man and engaged in wholesale flippoffery towards the Lincoln driver. What did I do about it? Well, I figured that if the old man smacked that Lincoln thirty or forty more times I might just have to ask him to quit, but he quit on his own and toddled off. The light changed and I never saw the Lincoln or the old guy again. Made me proud to be an American.

I can certainly see a prosecutor using the loaded chamber aspect to HELP establish premeditation, but only in the presence of other supportive evidence, like 10-ring said. I can't see how a loaded chamber alone could do it. The lawyer's job is to do anything and everything acceptable to the judge to influence the jury his way, whether he's a prosecutor or defender. That's all we're dealing with here. IMHO.

Ordinarily I would say yes, but I think that changes when it comes to the really rickety old men I see doing the open carry thing - and who couldn't fight off a rampaging chipmunk if their lives depended on it, much less get off a competent shot. Under that specific circumstance, they should prolly leave the gun in their sock drawer at home.

Around here we call the two way left turn lanes "suicide lanes"..........................for a reason!! :rant:

We all respect the right to do it, we just think it is not always wise.

Open carry is sometimes OK if the person is aware that his gun is a gift to anyone who wants it, and takes appropriate steps to safeguard it. But a lot of OC guys are under the misimpression that the sight of a visible pistol scares badguys off, and that leads to real carelessness. If you go to a restaurant in a certain adjacent state on a Sunday around noon, you'll see men sitting on the outside seat of booths with their pistols dangling out in the aisle for all to see and/or grab, and they are oblivious to passing foot traffic. A guy sat across the aisle from me completely lost in conversation dangling a Smith Model 15 out in the aisle in an old police suicide bucket holster and I could have gotten up and taken it away from him with the greatest of ease. Some of these guys just don't seem to realize that a common cause of cops getting shot is seizure of their sidearms by badguys.

Hmmm. This is starting to sound like one of the cop bashing threads of old.

This is exactly the kind of loss of public support I was talking about. I agree with a great deal of this.....but nobody listens to retirees.

This guy is an aberration his supervisors would dearly like to know about. It goes back to what I said in another similar thread about the "squad idiot", or the "squad embarrassment".

Yep. Gospel truth. As a training sergeant, all kinds of red lights and bells went off when a new officer started reacting to this kind of stuff. It was a sure sign of big troubles ahead.

I was a Peace Officer from '65 to '93 in a 5,500 man agency. We were strictly forbidden to take any enforcement action against a misdemeanor, non-violent act in which we were the victim. The training doctrine of that era was to ignore such insults. I despise the term LEO and won't use it except when corresponding with someone too young to recall the Peace Officer title. Most of the Olphart retirees of my generation have grave reservations about cops suiting up like Navy Seals going after Bin Laden on an everyday basis. If it's needed to go after really risky felons, or to operate in a chronically criminal, unusually dangerous area, then so be it - if cops are going to protect the public, then it's only fair to give them the gear they need to do it. But to don this combat paratrooper garb for everyday duty in every town is an incredibly bad idea. The loss of public good will arising from it makes good judgment in its use more than mandatory. If it's needed throughout the nation for everyday officer safety, and not in just the really dangerous environments, then we might as well fold up our tents and go home - our society is done and over with. (And flipping someone off in present day America is a very fine way to wind up on a slab down at the city morgue. Just in case anyone is wondering about that.)

Exellent point. I think he may have identified the reason why the decocker is being removed. A decocker is traditionally incorporated into conventional DA/SA trigger systems, not strictly SA pistols. I wouldn't want a pistol set up this way for defense, although it's OK for a range popper, as stated in the user quote I posted in response #2.

I guess ugly is as ugly does. Even if it's ugly as sin, if it costs little and shoots like a house afire it will sell like hotcakes.

Welcome from a transplant to East Tennessee from the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia. Congrats on a return to real life. East Tennessee is the original "God's Country." If you like good Italian food, try Carraba's in Johnson City.

A friend of mine in South Carolina bought one recently and left this report on another forum:   "I recently purchased a Canik TP9SA. I knew nothing about it but saw something on the web so I started to do a little research on it. The more I saw / read the more I liked, especially the price point at $340 and all the other goodies it comes with. As you can see in the attachment it come with two holster options: paddle or belt loop. Ironically I carry a very similar rig on duty. It comes with two 18 round magazines as well as two different backstraps to fit your hand and the cleaning bore and brush. I chose the Desert Tan just to be a little different. I have to say that it is one of the smoothest shooting pistols I have ever fired. If you like Glocks then you will recognize the trigger pull. I am just guessing but would put it around 5lbs. Very clean and real nice crisp reset... better that a Glock. With two 18 round mags you can have a lot of fun on the range without having to stop to reload. We shot 124 gr FMJ with a very very pleasent recoil. It was very accurate right out of the box even though you can adjust for windage. I have to admit I could not tell too much difference with the two different backstraps but I have largeish hands. I only wiped it down a little from the box then took it straight to the range. It breaks down real easy for cleaning and I have to admit that with the weapon being Desert tan made it easy to tell where you needed to clean better! The few bad remarks from folks on you tube all centered around this being used as a CCW. With the ambi decocker on the top of the slide like it is I can see the point however I did not buy this gun as a CCW but as a fun, inexpensive range toy. I will say one thing... you only have to pull the slide about 1/4 inch to re-engage the striker pin. At only $340 bucks I have absolutly no complaints."    Hope it helps.     Quoted from www.handgunsandammunition.com.  

In the meantime you can simply set up a box fan down there and improve the circulation that way. I solved a dampness problem in our crawlspace a few years ago by doing that. I set it up near a vent and had it suck in fresh air and blow it toward the interior of the space. Dried it right up in a couple of days.

I now have a scanner with a Photoshop ap on it, and that ap has a really neat brush that will remove any markings on a gun you want  to remove. After brushing the numbers off you can't tell they were ever there. I'm going to post some photos of the actual guns after I get them finished and I'll be sure to do that beforehand. I wouldn't mind if someone used one of the photos to illustrate a gun they're selling, as long as they put a disclaimer in the advertisement and didn't represent the gun in the photo as the exact one they're selling. i.e. I wouldn't object to good faith use of the photos. Besides, like Oh Shoot said, if you post it on an internet forum, it's no longer within your control. So if that's a problem for you, I wouldn't post them.   I posted the photos for the good of the guys who may be interested in some nice Rosewood grips and I really didn't mind the photos getting rerouted, it just surprised me. At least they gave TGO the credit.

A couple of weeks ago I posted four photos of my new Hogue checkered rosewood grips down in the Gear and Accessories Forum. Yesterday I went looking for some more of these grips on Google, so I entered "Hogue Checkered Rosewood Grips for Browning Hi Power" and guess what? When the internet page opened up their were four small photos of said grips on said gun, but wait........what's this"? Yep, one of the four photos looked exactly like the ones I had posted here on TGO. I clicked on it and a page of a gazillion Hi Power pistols with various grips on them came up, and among them the four photos I posted here were splattered all over the page. When I passed the cursor over the photos, "tngunowners.com" came up on each of them.   It isn't a big deal to me, the photos weren't copyrighted or anything like that, and I sure wouldn't object to the forum admins posting them somewhere else if it would help advertise the forum.  BUT, it's another reminder never to post gun photos with serial numbers or names and addresses on any internet gun forums. They obviously don't stay there. I've even had a few copyrighted ones bootlegged off of a blog I used to operate. I know of one fellow who was looking through a gun auction and came upon a very nice gun he recognized...........it was his, right down to the serial number.!! And the seller was advertising it as his own. The bottom line is that the ad was fraudulent and the seller was a scam artist. The gun auction shut down the ad ratnow, but that's what can happen when you publish photos with serial numbers on the guns depicted. FWIW.    

We, as a people, have one heckuvalot of undoing to do before we get it anywhere near right again. Congrats to all you guys for getting it started in your own families. Maybe those watching from the mall will take the hint.

That and a nation-wide conviction that the only important things in American life are what time the Mall opens and when the next version of the IPhone is coming out. A lot of folks today think Pearl Harbor was a singer on the Grand Ole Opry who wore a hat with a price tag hanging off of it and have utterly no idea that it could happen again. World War II should have taught us that ignorance can be a terminal affliction but didn't, at least not in the generations who didn't have to fight in it.

The sad truth is that scopes shoot loose internally and there will be no evidence of hard use externally when it happens. Most of these cases involve the reticle and its various mechanisms. I have had a 2x7 Leupold, a 4x Bushnell, and a 2x7 Redfield shoot loose on common 7x57 and otsix rifles. The giveaway is when your reticle shows visible damage, shifts around visibly, or your zero begins shifting about a foot after each shot. Ordinarily the rule of thumb is not to mount the scope to where the rings are within 1/8" of the turret or the eyepiece or bell, which doesn't seem to be the case here. I'd give them a call like DaveTN suggests.

I'm a native son of California and left it a little over nineteen years ago because I could see it heading this way and I didn't want to be trapped on a sinking ship.   Contrary to what most Tennesseans think, California has not been quite the liberal state it has been cracked up to be over the years. For example, in the last four Presidential races, 43% of the electorate carried for the Republican candidate, and that's just a small chunk short of half. Then 54 out of California's 58 counties also carried for the Republican candidate in those elections. But this slight majority was all the Democrats needed to carry the state, thanks to the four huge entitlement counties that voted for them. But now all of that is changing according to my family members who still live out there. After seeing the hard left liberals like Jerry Brown and Barbara Boxer returned to office in one fell swoop, the "forty three percenter's" have finally thrown in the towel. They concluded that they could spend the rest of their lives fighting to changes things, but they would never have a majority, not even a small one, and would just continue to lose and watch the place die a slow death. So after fighting the good fight for many years in the face of constant setbacks, these folks are now leaving the state in droves. Which means that the stranglehold the liberals have on the state is just going to get worse and worse and with that goes increased harassment of gun owners by the hard left state legislature. Heck, if they're not careful the only people left out there to pay for all the entitlements will be the ones receiving them, and what a helluva dose of poetic justice that will be.   As ol' George Strait's song goes: "That's why I hang my hat it Tennessee."