Sig P320 - Carry, Range Only, or Sell

[Alleycat72]

2 minutes ago, Sleep profit said:

Are they different internals ?

Yes

Sig fixed the issue with the cross. The 365 is a pretty good gun. Not perfect, but probably an 8.5 out of 10.

Edited 15 hours ago by Alleycat72

[DocHawk]

21 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Just the 320, which is curious.  If all these accidents are just negligent bozos, why aren’t we seeing a lot of accidents with 365s, which have been some of the hottest selling guns in the past few years and are probably carried in pockets and waistbands more frequently than 320s? 

There aren't one million 365's issued to government personnel. Everyone conveniently forgets the same exact anecdotal data set was alleged against the "inherently unsafe" Glock in the 90's.

[DocHawk]

42 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

Have you seen the multiple videos of guns going bang in the holster?

Not even half as many POST UPGRADE as I've seen of Glocks "just going off" - almost all of which turned out to be NDs. There are a few "hmm, curious, not proven" issues with Glocks (the appendix carry at the gun range store comes to mind), but I still own and recommend Glocks, because I understand the mechanism and have confidence in it.

[Alleycat72]

3 minutes ago, DocHawk said:

Not even half as many POST UPGRADE as I've seen of Glocks "just going off" - almost all of which turned out to be NDs. There are a few "hmm, curious, not proven" issues with Glocks (the appendix carry at the gun range store comes to mind), but I still own and recommend Glocks, because I understand the mechanism and have confidence in it.

Glocks had problems in the beginning. Glock address them. They are fantastic gun that I can't shoot worth a damn due to grip angle. On the range, im good. Under stress fire, I hit high every time. Not the guns fault. 

Sig 320s have had a bunch of issues. We only have Sigs word that it's good. We need a an independent group to test several hundred random guns. We also need them to test every know gun that has fired without the trigger being fully depressed. Everyone with a sig 320 has a sample of 1 or 2, but at some point 50-60 samples of 1 is a trend. 

If a car randomly exploded when you closed the door, I would hope we'd stop using the car until the problem was solved. Doesn’t matter who's at falt.  

[deerslayer]

24 minutes ago, DocHawk said:

There aren't one million 365's issued to government personnel. Everyone conveniently forgets the same exact anecdotal data set was alleged against the "inherently unsafe" Glock in the 90's.

I don’t know how many 365s are carried by Joe Sixpack, but I bet it’s a bunch.  Sig claims it’s the top-selling gun in America (although I am a little less inclined to believe Sig nowadays).  A 365 is more likely to be found in an IWB/AIWB/pocket holster (or no holster at all), where the risk of an ND is probably higher.  

[ck1 actual]

2 hours ago, Sleep profit said:

Are they different internals ?

Yes.  The 365 was designed from the ground up as a striker fire.  The 320 was made by retrofitting the 250 tooling process and equipment.  Totally different FCU's. 

[ck1 actual]

1 hour ago, Alleycat72 said:

Glocks had problems in the beginning. Glock address them. They are fantastic gun that I can't shoot worth a damn due to grip angle. On the range, im good. Under stress fire, I hit high every time. Not the guns fault. 

Sig 320s have had a bunch of issues. We only have Sigs word that it's good. We need a an independent group to test several hundred random guns. We also need them to test every know gun that has fired without the trigger being fully depressed. Everyone with a sig 320 has a sample of 1 or 2, but at some point 50-60 samples of 1 is a trend. 

If a car randomly exploded when you closed the door, I would hope we'd stop using the car until the problem was solved. Doesn’t matter who's at falt.  

Guys, guys, guys.  Can't we all agree that Glock, besides having the worst trigger on the market, somehow also created the most ergonomically uncomfortable gun while also magically creating a gun that looks like it was made by Fisher-Price?

If we can't agree on that, can't we agree that Glock owners are the absolute vegans of the gun community?  

I'm jesting, as someone who loves both my Glocks and Sigs. You have two choices in life, get ND'd by a Sig owner or listen to a Glock owner drone on at how great the most uncomfortable gun on the market is. 

You must choose one of these two paths. 

[Alleycat72]

14 minutes ago, ck1 actual said:

Guys, guys, guys.  Can't we all agree that Glock, besides having the worst trigger on the market, somehow also created the most ergonomically uncomfortable gun while also magically creating a gun that looks like it was made by Fisher-Price?

If we can't agree on that, can't we agree that Glock owners are the absolute vegans of the gun community?  

I'm jesting, as someone who loves both my Glocks and Sigs. You have two choices in life, get ND'd by a Sig owner or listen to a Glock owner drone on at how great the most uncomfortable gun on the market is. 

You must choose one of these two paths. 

Man, I've been shot and I know glock owners....it's a tuff decision. LOL

[Chucktshoes]

Jury finds SIG P320 'defectively designed' in Cambridge police lawsuit

 

A Cambridge police officer and his legal team convinced a federal jury that the SIG Sauer P320 pistol was defectively designed and caused him injury when it unintentionally discharged while on-duty, but he won’t receive the damages he sought in the case.

Jacques Desrosiers won’t receive any “actual, compensatory, and punitive damages” after the jury sided with SIG that the officer “voluntarily and unreasonably used the P320 pistol knowing that it was defective and dangerous,” according to the verdict form.

“While we are disappointed he won’t be getting any compensatory damages, we are happy that a jury now for the third straight time has found the P320 is defectively designed and those defects caused Officer Desrosier’s injury,” said attorney Robert W. Zimmerman, of Saltz Mongeluzzi Bendesky, which represents hundreds of injured SIG Sauer gun owners.

 

 

The law firm is calling for the weapon to be recalled or redesigned.

Newington-based SIG posted a lengthy statement titled “P320 information” on its website about news reports involving law enforcement and the military.

“The P320 cannot, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories,” the statement reads.

Saltz Mongeluzzi Bendesky said the Cambridge, Mass., Police Department had four unintended discharges after the department switched to the P320.

According to the complaint, Desrosiers had his department-issued P320 secured to his belt when it unintentionally discharged while walking toward the police station in October 2019.

 

 

“At no time did Officer Desrosiers touch the trigger, and no other item touched the trigger when the gun discharged,” the complaint reads. “The bullet impacted Officer Desrosiers’s scrotum, left inner thigh, and exited his right knee causing devastating injury.”

The department no longer uses the P320.

A Houston, Texas, Police Officer Richard Fernandez also filed a lawsuit after reporting his P320 went off by itself and shot him on Jan 20. The gun was holstered, and he did not touch it, according to the suit.

The lawsuit comes days after a U.S. Air Force Security Forces airman was killed in Wyoming while wearing his SIG Sauer M18 pistol, the military version of the P320.

In March, a group of 22 plaintiffs filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Concord over the design of the pistol.

 

Saltz Mongeluzzi Bendesky says the injuries to Desrosiers never should have happened.

“The Cambridge Police Department, like many other law enforcement agencies nationwide, made the responsible decision to abandon the P320 and has purchased other safer alternative pistols for its officers,” a statement reads.

Edited 12 hours ago by Chucktshoes

[DocHawk]

58 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

the officer “voluntarily and unreasonably used the P320 pistol knowing that it was defective and dangerous,” according to the verdict form.

Can you imagine? "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you cannot find Ford liable for this accident and injury. The Kentucky-fried plaintiff owned and operated his Pinto knowing full well that they blow up in rear end collisions." 

[Alleycat72]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

Jury finds SIG P320 'defectively designed' in Cambridge police lawsuit

 

A Cambridge police officer and his legal team convinced a federal jury that the SIG Sauer P320 pistol was defectively designed and caused him injury when it unintentionally discharged while on-duty, but he won’t receive the damages he sought in the case.

Jacques Desrosiers won’t receive any “actual, compensatory, and punitive damages” after the jury sided with SIG that the officer “voluntarily and unreasonably used the P320 pistol knowing that it was defective and dangerous,” according to the verdict form.

“While we are disappointed he won’t be getting any compensatory damages, we are happy that a jury now for the third straight time has found the P320 is defectively designed and those defects caused Officer Desrosier’s injury,” said attorney Robert W. Zimmerman, of Saltz Mongeluzzi Bendesky, which represents hundreds of injured SIG Sauer gun owners.

 

 

The law firm is calling for the weapon to be recalled or redesigned.

Newington-based SIG posted a lengthy statement titled “P320 information” on its website about news reports involving law enforcement and the military.

“The P320 cannot, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories,” the statement reads.

Saltz Mongeluzzi Bendesky said the Cambridge, Mass., Police Department had four unintended discharges after the department switched to the P320.

According to the complaint, Desrosiers had his department-issued P320 secured to his belt when it unintentionally discharged while walking toward the police station in October 2019.

 

 

“At no time did Officer Desrosiers touch the trigger, and no other item touched the trigger when the gun discharged,” the complaint reads. “The bullet impacted Officer Desrosiers’s scrotum, left inner thigh, and exited his right knee causing devastating injury.”

The department no longer uses the P320.

A Houston, Texas, Police Officer Richard Fernandez also filed a lawsuit after reporting his P320 went off by itself and shot him on Jan 20. The gun was holstered, and he did not touch it, according to the suit.

The lawsuit comes days after a U.S. Air Force Security Forces airman was killed in Wyoming while wearing his SIG Sauer M18 pistol, the military version of the P320.

In March, a group of 22 plaintiffs filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Concord over the design of the pistol.

 

Saltz Mongeluzzi Bendesky says the injuries to Desrosiers never should have happened.

“The Cambridge Police Department, like many other law enforcement agencies nationwide, made the responsible decision to abandon the P320 and has purchased other safer alternative pistols for its officers,” a statement reads.

You knew it had a problem so you go to jail. LOL 

[Alleycat72]

At this point...if someone walks in to your home with a sig 320, do you just start blasting?

[btq96r]

5 hours ago, deerslayer said:

I don’t know how many 365s are carried by Joe Sixpack, but I bet it’s a bunch.  Sig claims it’s the top-selling gun in America (although I am a little less inclined to believe Sig nowadays).  A 365 is more likely to be found in an IWB/AIWB/pocket holster (or no holster at all), where the risk of an ND is probably higher.  

Plenty of 365s are being carried, but I would imagine a lot more are just sitting in the safe or in a nightstand.

The 320 gets multiple touch-points everyday in service use.  Signed out of the arms room, loaded, holstered, unholstered, unloaded, returned to the arms room...multiply across every LEO and security force member doing that in a given day.  Way more chances to have negligent discharges from bad handling.  But we're seeing mechanical accidents instead.

And we're seeing it with the 320.  We're not getting reports on Glocks, or other SIG models.  No M&P user agencies sounding off on those.  Just the Sig P320.

[Garufa]

We are soon going to find out that all loaded weapons are in fact dangerous without proper handling and increasingly complex precautions employed.