Legalize Illegals to Get Them Health Care

[Guest SUNTZU]

Who'd of thunk it?

President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.

He also staked out a position that anyone in the country legally should be covered - a major break with the 1996 welfare reform bill, which limited most federal public assistance programs only to citizens and longtime immigrants.

"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all." .......

MORE AT LINK BELOW

Two Page Article

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care - Washington Times

[DWARREN123]

Send them home and that will take care of it!

[strickj]

I'd like more then anything to send these turds back across the border,but I also know that will never happen.

So I say the more people paying taxes,the less I have to pay

[E4 No More]

I'd like more then anything to send these turds back across the border,but I also know that will never happen.

So I say the more people paying taxes,the less I have to pay

But they don't pay taxes.

[Guest SUNTZU]

But they don't pay taxes.

[strickj]

If O legalized them,that would mean they would pay tax

[mousegunner]

Well, illegal aliens DO pay taxes, actually. They pay sales tax. They pay gas tax. They also pay property tax if they buy a house. If they get legalized, Obama's plan will FORCE them to buy health insurance. If it weren't for immigrants, but legal and illegal, this would be a rapidly aging nation. The reality is: we need younger people to tax to take care of the old codgers (like me!)

[Guest H0TSH0T]

Well, illegal aliens DO pay taxes, actually. They pay sales tax. They pay gas tax. They also pay property tax if they buy a house. If they get legalized, Obama's plan will FORCE them to buy health insurance. If it weren't for immigrants, but legal and illegal, this would be a rapidly aging nation. The reality is: we need younger people to tax to take care of the old codgers (like me!)

illegal aliens don't pay federal income tax!,

the person selling them a house should be deported along side the illegal aliens. or put in jail.

insurance does not solve a thing, other than a clever way to swindle you out of your hard earned money. it is cheaper for the insurance co to pay the fine and not insure you if you have sever health problems or a life expectancy less the time to pay them back via premiums.

true we need immigrants, but we need them to be healthy, able to work and not be a burden to the tax payers, and not on the public dole, and able to speak English. and most important of all want to be an American and follow the laws we have, not a Mexican in America, or a Chinese in America ect.ect.

and not on welfare, food stamps, unemployment, selling drugs, pimping hoes, slave trading, or any of the other illegal activities they do to make a living, or making a living on the hard work of citizens. or forcing Americans out of jobs cause they will work cheaper due to the citizenship status, or stealing the health-care for citizens that may not be able to pay but wasted on them.

and as far as expecting others to take care of you, that is not the American dream, it may be your dream but its not American!

the American dream it is only to have life, liberty and the the pursuit of happiness.

the Obama plan Is to have you waste you life to serve lazy people so they can have happiness by taking your liberty, thus taxing you simply cause you have life or fining you for having it in America, thus making people like me unhappy. and Labeled as UnAmericans

Edited September 18, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[Chief07]

Yup, make all the illegal’s legal. That will overload the system

and send America into financial ruin. Saul Alynsky taught wing

nut ears well. Many historians and I have been saying for years

that the Marxists, Communists can take over our country without

firing a shot. They will do it with our own laws, political correctness

and “compassion” and take over America from within.

Good God, Americans better wake up and kick all these politicians out

that don’t follow the constitution. This is the document that binds us together

and gives us our liberty, freedom, and enforces our “GOD given rights”.

The left calls it a “living and breathing document”. That is BULL!

The constitution is a social contract. It protects us from a overburdening

government.

Don’t forget to vote on Election Day. We must take our country back.

Ray

[tbuford]

illegal aliens don't pay federal income tax!,

the person selling them a house should be deported along side the illegal aliens. or put in jail.

insurance does not solve a thing, other than a clever way to swindle you out of your hard earned money. it is cheaper for the insurance co to pay the fine and not insure you if you have sever health problems or a life expectancy less the time to pay them back via premiums.

true we need immigrants, but we need them to be healthy, able to work and not be a burden to the tax payers, and not on the public dole, and able to speak English. and most important of all want to be an American and follow the laws we have, not a Mexican in America, or a Chinese in America ect.ect.

and not on welfare, food stamps, unemployment, selling drugs, pimping hoes, slave trading, or any of the other illegal activities they do to make a living, or making a living on the hard work of citizens. or forcing Americans out of jobs cause they will work cheaper due to the citizenship status, or stealing the health-care for citizens that may not be able to pay but wasted on them.

and as far as expecting others to take care of you, that is not the American dream, it may be your dream but its not American!

the American dream it is only to have life, liberty and the the pursuit of happiness.

the Obama plan Is to have you waste you life to serve lazy people so they can have happiness by taking your liberty, thus taxing you simply cause you have life or fining you for having it in America, thus making people like me unhappy. and Labeled as UnAmericans

[USMCJG]

+1

[oldogy]

The majority of the illegals are in the economic level where they pay little or no income tax but get tax credits and a bunch of freebies. Do the research.

Ike deported them, why can we not deport them now!!!!!!!!!!!

oldogy

Obama Doesn’t Lie

Obama doesn't lie. He implies, he misdirects, he misleads -- so fluidly and incessantly that he risks transmuting eloquence into mere slickness.

Dr. Charles Krauthammer

Edited September 19, 2009 by oldogy

[strickj]

Well,Like allot of things,its nice to sit back and preach the right wing speech about how things should be,and I do agree with that most times.

Like I said,I would like more then anything to send the turds back home,but here in reality I know that these people are not going anywhere(except to WalMart,but thats another thread).

I also know that even in a dream fantasy world,if they were sent back home,that there would be no way to keep them there shy of a Berlin wall(that also will never happen),and even that would not stop them from entering.

Now,I personally don't see the problem.I mean we complain about them not paying taxes,then complain when someone wants to make them pay taxes.That doesn't seem very wise to me.

Which is it folks,be here legally and pay taxes,and contribute to the "system",or remain illegal and continue to take from the system?

Seems pretty simple to me

[Guest Ghostrider]

...The reality is: we need younger people to tax to take care of the old codgers (like me!)

A short historical note. Social security ALWAYS had a large surplus of cash UNTIL the government found a (bogus) way to use it to fund social programs. Social Security is a retirement fund, dreamed up to "force" people to have some income in their old age (a result of conditions during the depression era when old folks starved due to no money).

If social security were really what it should be "retirement security" or "old age pension", it would not have gone broke. I've personally been paying into this system since I was 14 or 15. I know I've paid my way, and it pisses me off that people that have never paid a cent into the program can get money out of it. And those people are legal, illegal, and all shades and stripes between.

IF we could return social security to what was first envisioned, even though I don't agree with it, then it would never go broke. I know that won't happen, but just thought I'd set the record straight for those that didn't live in those times and/or remember that history lesson.

Moral: Less government is always better government.

[Mark@Sea]

Well,Like allot of things,its nice to sit back and preach the right wing speech about how things should be,and I do agree with that most times.

Like I said,I would like more then anything to send the turds back home,but here in reality I know that these people are not going anywhere(except to WalMart,but thats another thread).

I also know that even in a dream fantasy world,if they were sent back home,that there would be no way to keep them there shy of a Berlin wall(that also will never happen),and even that would not stop them from entering.

Now,I personally don't see the problem.I mean we complain about them not paying taxes,then complain when someone wants to make them pay taxes.That doesn't seem very wise to me.

Which is it folks,be here legally and pay taxes,and contribute to the "system",or remain illegal and continue to take from the system?

Seems pretty simple to me

Strick, disregarding the many other reasons why an amnesty is a bad idea, disregarding the fact that it didn't work the last time (which was billed as a one-time-only, of course), why do you assume that people who are very willing to skip out on debts now will be less willing to skip out on them in the future? And why assume that manual laborers will end up paying taxes, rather than getting 'refunds' that amount to more than they paid in the first place?

[strickj]

Why do you assume that they wouldn't pay taxes either way?

Like said,I want them gone just as bad as everyone else here.

However,how do you expect to round up 20+ million people? 20 million people that have no records no less.

How do you expect to keep those 20 million people out once their gone?

How do you expect to keep more from entering?

[Mark@Sea]

Illegal immigrants are almost entirely manual laborers. For their income level, filing taxes would be a net gain for them.

I wouldn't round them up. I'd make the environment hostile to them. Shut down companies that hire them, use eminent domain to take housing that is knowingly rented to them, shut down the government gravy train they get to ride fare-free (see california), and deduct the costs - including the costs of their 'free' healthcare - from aid to Mexico, or added tariffs to mexican imports. For that matter, require proof of citizenship or legal alien status to wire money to mexico.

That'd give the mexican government some incentive to stop pointing them at the border with a map and a jug of water.

Kind of like "If you build it, they will come" in reverse. They'll leave of their own accord.

[Guest PapaB]

Illegal immigrants are almost entirely manual laborers. For their income level, filing taxes would be a net gain for them.

I wouldn't round them up. I'd make the environment hostile to them. Shut down companies that hire them, use eminent domain to take housing that is knowingly rented to them, shut down the government gravy train they get to ride fare-free (see california), and deduct the costs - including the costs of their 'free' healthcare - from aid to Mexico, or added tariffs to mexican imports. For that matter, require proof of citizenship or legal alien status to wire money to mexico.

That'd give the mexican government some incentive to stop pointing them at the border with a map and a jug of water.

Kind of like "If you build it, they will come" in reverse. They'll leave of their own accord.

To add a point in support of your argument, the current economy has caused more illegals to return home than any steps the government has taken. Dry up their sources of income and they have no incentive to stay. I wish we could do that with the socialists too.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

i would say the first step is this, if your not a citizen you have no rights, your not protected by our justice system, nor is our system the standard to in witch you will be treated.

If your caught doing an illegal activity(non citizens, and or illegal aliens), you will be sent to a court, this info put in your file and your dna sampled and put on record, you will serve your time, and released into your country, or out of the us, what ever is closest. if you were to reenter the U.S. and caught a second time = automatic death sentence.

second if your to enter our country illegally and have a child you have 2 choices, take your baby or leave your baby, you don't get to stay cause your kid is an American by birth, we will recognize this however as being a minor the child can not choose until the age of adult,(that age is 18 unless emancipated and that age is 16 or older) this child will have one year after the age of adult to specify their country of record, (ie; American or not) if not that is the end of it, if so they must live in America 10 years or more to vote, and not on any government assistance during that time, if put up for adoption the years of residence as a minor count towards the 10 years.

if abandon (safe harbor laws) at police, fire, hospital, the child will become ward to the state, and hopefully adopted.

the mothers dna will be held on record along with other identifying papers, if the mother (illegally) was to enter the country a second time, the child will be born, but the mother would be executed as per the law.

third legal citizens get job preference over non citizens, kinda like a union tenure, example, if we have a unemployed citizen, and a non resident has a job (work or education visa in hand) they could be replaced by a qualified citizen as per government job placement.

fourth, give 90 days for all non citizens to leave, the government will pay citizens in the form of one year no taxes for every illegal alien delivered to ICE, or a border patrol officer, at a designated border checkpoint and processing camp. After the 90 days

The government will not prosecute the citizen, nor reimburse any financial losses to the citizen engaged in transporting. other than the tax credit.

after 90 days and the illegal alien is caught in the U.S. they will be dna typed and no member of their family for 3 generations will be able to apply for citizenship. This is the penalty for not leaving during the (90days grace period).

if they do decide to leave during the (90day grace period) the exit of them out of our country will be recorded, they will be put on a list to get citizenship after the last applicant that applied from the country of origin (the proper way) but has the luxury if employed and the company wants to sponsor a work visa, you will have to wait till your background check is approved, (non criminal record in the U.S. or country of origin, or on any inter-pole, or terrorist watch-list ) and health examination, is complete, then you may re-enter as a documented migrant worker, but must leave at the expiration of visa or end of employment or after time served for a criminal offense that you were found guilty of in a court of law.

also at the same time you would have to enact welfare reform.

1.limit it to U.S. citizens and diplomatic refugees only.

2.not to exceed 8 months of aid in a 10 year period.

3.any inheritance , lotto winnings, or other good fortune of wealth will paid to the state to refund the cost of assistance up to twice the benefit you received, you will be entitled to the remainder if you don't take any more aid monies or services.

4.must be on birth control while on assistance.

5.new pregnancies will end services if issued before hand.

6.you will have to wear government clothes identifying you as a recipient of the public funds while reviving aid.

7.you must attend mandatory drug screenings and test clean to continue aid

8.you must attend all workshops, reeducation, job training selected by your administrator. 2 abbesses or 6 tarties to program will disenrole you and your aid will be cut in half by funds or time, up to the administrator.

Edited September 19, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[strickj]

Illegal immigrants are almost entirely manual laborers. For their income level, filing taxes would be a net gain for them.

I wouldn't round them up. I'd make the environment hostile to them. Shut down companies that hire them, use eminent domain to take housing that is knowingly rented to them, shut down the government gravy train they get to ride fare-free (see california), and deduct the costs - including the costs of their 'free' healthcare - from aid to Mexico, or added tariffs to mexican imports. For that matter, require proof of citizenship or legal alien status to wire money to mexico.

That'd give the mexican government some incentive to stop pointing them at the border with a map and a jug of water.

Kind of like "If you build it, they will come" in reverse. They'll leave of their own accord.

You assume that being unemployed in the US is worse then being employed in Mexico,Mark.

You also assume that their fake documents wont be any good after that plan is enacted.

Again,you assume that our Government can carry out such a plan.The same Government that can not currently handle the already existing laws governing illegals.

The same Government that can't handle the laws on drugs.

So the best option when the existing laws can not be carried out is to make more laws...that can not be enforced?

I do agree with shutting down businesses that knowingly hire illegals,but what about all the non-"business" jobs they have? What about all the legit jobs that were obtained using fake documents?

Now in a perfect world where this plan actually worked,would they go back home? Would they stay here,find new ways to make money with fake documents,with other business looking to save money,with other manual labor jobs that are under the table (you,yourself say that's the majority of their employment now) ,would they turn to crime to live?

They're not going to go back to Mexico in its current state,Mark. So that leaves one of the choices above,or move someplace else.

They cant go south,so that leaves where,Canada?

Even Canadians don't wanna live in Canada

Edited September 19, 2009 by strickj

[mousegunner]

It's too late to turn back the clock. The horse is out of the barn. The toothpaste is out of the tube, and you can't put it back. The new America is here, and we need to learn how to manage it. You can't go back to the old America. Just a few more years from now, I fully believe we will be in a North American Union, with a common currency. I wish we could go back, but we cant. So, let's figure out how to legalize and tax ALL the immigrants (and native born welfare recipients, too), so they can all help shoulder the load.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

It's too late to turn back the clock. The horse is out of the barn. The toothpaste is out of the tube, and you can't put it back. The new America is here, and we need to learn how to manage it. You can't go back to the old America. Just a few more years from now, I fully believe we will be in a North American Union, with a common currency. I wish we could go back, but we cant. So, let's figure out how to legalize and tax ALL the immigrants (and native born welfare recipients, too), so they can all help shoulder the load.

? why don't you just say it, you believe in the new world order? and its already here, and you support it, even though it is morally wrong......its ok, to feel that way, but you will have a hard time convincing me to give my support to this ideal. and by the way you can put the horse back into the barn, and even toothpaste back in the tube, but you have to realize first that there is a problem, second commit to actually getting your hands dirty, but i feel that you are comfortable and content and thus not going to help secure the rights of being an American for future generations to come thus equally at fault of aiding the enemies of our country and our citizens.

shame on you for reaping the rewards but lacking the courage to keep them. shame on you!

[Mark@Sea]

Actually Strick, there is a system in place now, at the federal level, quite effective for confirming citizenship. All they have to do is allow anyone to use it.

Been to Mexico, know what you mean - but lack of controlled immigration effectively equals no borders at all. Believe me - if the political will to control the border existed, it could be accomplished.