beware census workers!!

[Erik88]

I saw this on another forum but I wanted to make sure everyone on here got a chance to see it also.

I don't think many TGO members open the doors for strangers based on what I've read in previous threads but just in case you need to read this.

I was at my friends house saturday when a Census worker showed up, he was very polite but I did think some of his questions were too personal.

Criminals pose as census workers.

Census Bureau Provides Tips After Killing - Houston News Story - KPRC Houston

[Guest rsgillmd]

Thanks for posting it. I forwarded it to my parents who tend to be a little naive at times. I've been wearing my gun in the holster even at home to get used to carrying it. After seeing this article I intend to continue this practice in the future.

A census worker came to our house for the 1990 census, but it was one person not 3. The census beaurau's (sp?) recommendation isn't practical for people with just a peephole to the outside, like most apartments. Other people could easily be hidden out of sight. Fortunately at our house in NJ we have a screen door between the outside and the main front door. It's not much, but it's something and gives a better view.

My dad has this bad habit of sticking his head out the screen door and looking around when the door bell rings but nobody is at the front door. The way I see it, if someone doesn't want to wait for the response to a door bell then it can't be that important for them to see you.

[Guest CK1]

Census workers, specifically the enumerators, who would knock on your door if you didn't mail in your census questionnaire, wear an official ID around their necks and carry black tote bags... they identify themselves and show their ID right off the bat.

While you should be cautious opening the door for a stranger at all times, there is no reason to overreact or be paranoid... drawing a gun on a federal employee will have you in hot water, as a federal employee handling their business they have a constitutional right to knock and conduct their interview, and if you didn't want them to knock you should've sent in your census form as required by the constitution when you were supposed to.

Besides, not to open a huge can of worms, while it's not allowed and against policy for census workers to carry weapons, it's not unlawful, so while it will certainly get them "terminated" from their job with the census bureau, some may choose that over the other kind of "terminated" and may be within their rights as a private citizen to react if a weapon is pointed at them and they are carrying. Internet chatter aside, the census happens every 10 years and is part of the constitution, Obama didn't just make it up to mess with you.

Hope the mods have the good sense to just close this.

[kb4ns]

The ridiculous thing about it all - the census beureau sent out a letter to all LE agencies that showed the THREE different types of IDs that a census worker might have. And all three looked quite different.

[Erik88]

drawing a gun on a federal employee will have you in hot water,

Hope the mods have the good sense to just close this.

no one said anything about drawing a gun on census workers:screwy:

The point of this was to just have people be cautious when they open the door.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Census workers, specifically the enumerators, who would knock on your door if you didn't mail in your census questionnaire, wear an official ID around their necks and carry black tote bags... they identify themselves and show their ID right off the bat.

While you should be cautious opening the door for a stranger at all times, there is no reason to overreact or be paranoid... drawing a gun on a federal employee will have you in hot water, as a federal employee handling their business they have a constitutional right to knock and conduct their interview, and if you didn't want them to knock you should've sent in your census form as required by the constitution when you were supposed to.

Besides, not to open a huge can of worms, while it's not allowed and against policy for census workers to carry weapons, it's not unlawful, so while it will certainly get them "terminated" from their job with the census bureau, some may choose that over the other kind of "terminated" and may be within their rights as a private citizen to react if a weapon is pointed at them and they are carrying. Internet chatter aside, the census happens every 10 years and is part of the constitution, Obama didn't just make it up to mess with you.

Hope the mods have the good sense to just close this.

dude your jumping to conclusions awfully fast arent ya?

[Erik88]

dude your jumping to conclusions awfully fast arent ya?

ya I don't know what I said that made him so sensitive, maybe he is a census worker himself?

It was just a friendly heads up for everyone on here. As I said, the census worker I met was very polite, he had an ID badge, and he did NOT ask to come inside. Overall a good experience.

And he told me most of the people he had interviewed were very polite to him as well.

[Guest Buzz87]

Just a side note here, I was in a seven county management position in the 1990 census. Out of all the people my crew encountered, we had one problem with a refusal to comply. Federal Marshals are the last option but they are used if needed. You are required to provide minimum information for the census. So , if you feel a bit paranoid or distrustful of who is there to ask the questions,or, of the questions they ask.....just wait, the Marshals accompanying the census worker are plenty identifiable.

[Guest CK1]

Look guys, sorry if I pounced too quick, but I have a personal connection to some people being employed by the census bureau and it just gets me that this year the workers are being scared and bullied by many more so-called "Patriots" looking to give them a hard time more so than the expected amount of difficult people they're likely to encounter.

The census workers are just doing their job (and in a tough economy a smart one at that, as they get $17p/hr in Davidson County) and all have been printed and have clean records to be hired, many are vets, they don't need any added static from the tinfoil-hat crowd, so I'd rather say it than not say it is all.

In fact, if you know someone looking for a job, you should tell them to look into it...

[Erik88]

Look guys, sorry if I pounced too quick, but I have a personal connection to some people being employed by the census bureau and it just gets me that this year the workers are being scared and bullied by many more so-called "Patriots" looking to give them a hard time more so than the expected amount of difficult people they're likely to encounter.

The census workers are just doing their job (and in a tough economy a smart one at that, as they get $17p/hr in Davidson County) and all have been printed and have clean records to be hired, many are vets, they don't need any added static from the tinfoil-hat crowd, so I'd rather say it than not say it is all.

In fact, if you know someone looking for a job, you should tell them to look into it...

understandable, I don't have any ill-will towards the workers, I just think some of the questions they ask are a little personal. I realize this is completely out of their hands though, they will be give a warm welcome at my house assuming I can read their ID tag.

[Guest CK1]

understandable, I don't have any ill-will towards the workers, I just think some of the questions they ask are a little personal. I realize this is completely out of their hands though, they will be give a warm welcome at my house assuming I can read their ID tag.

No big deal. It's important that people understand that the only question that's remotely "personal" is the question of whether one has a mortgage, owns free and clear, or rents their home. All the info is confidential and is there to gauge the population so there is a clear picture of who we are as a nation and what changes may have taken place in the last 10 years.

Some have a problem with the race questions, but they're there so one can positively represent that their persuasion is significant in the picture of our nation, and times change, for instance, in the 50's many native-americans or irish immigrants may have checked "white" when in 2010 they'll proudly choose to be represented as "native-american" or "irish-american"...

People burn if the census info is tampered with or misused, and it's a far cry from being invasive, it's population data pure and simple, some of the data being socioeconomic in the year 2010 shouldn't frighten anyone.

[Erik88]

Some have a problem with the race questions

ohhhh! I almost forgot, when he asked my friend her race he mentioned that the census doesn't consider Hispanic a race:screwy: I'm not Hispanic so it didn't offend me but I thought it was pretty interesting.

[PC7]

Census workers, as a federal employee handling their business they have a constitutional right to knock and conduct their interview, and if you didn't want them to knock you should've sent in your census form as required by the constitution when you were supposed to.

I'm a student of the Constitution and always like to learn more about it, please direct me to the place this is listed in the US Constitution.

Let me say thanks to Erik88 for posting the article, interesting read. I don't open my door for anyone I don't know or didn't call to come to my house for this very reason. And for the comment about the federal marshals, I won't open the door for them either because I won't know who they are.

BTW, I did complete and mail my census in but one is not required to complete it, you just have to pay a $5,000.00 fine if you don't.

Last but not least, $17 an hour for census workers is ridiculous. What a waste of our tax dollars. That just makes me sick. $17 an hour for someone to ask questions! Isn't that more than most local LEO's make? That is not right.

[Ebow1]

A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Ebow1

[USMCJG]

People burn if the census info is tampered with or misused, and it's a far cry from being invasive, it's population data pure and simple, some of the data being socioeconomic in the year 2010 shouldn't frighten anyone.

Quick history lesson. The "confidential" 1940 census was used to locate and round up Japanese-Americans who were put in internment camps during WWII.

Edited May 11, 2010 by USMCJG

[Guest stmccann]

Just a side note here, I was in a seven county management position in the 1990 census. Out of all the people my crew encountered, we had one problem with a refusal to comply. Federal Marshals are the last option but they are used if needed. You are required to provide minimum information for the census. So , if you feel a bit paranoid or distrustful of who is there to ask the questions,or, of the questions they ask.....just wait, the Marshals accompanying the census worker are plenty identifiable.

I have the right to remain silent. If they want to count me, count me as I drive by. On my way to my federal job.

[Steelharp]

it just gets me that this year the workers are being scared and bullied by many more so-called "Patriots" looking to give them a hard time

Uh... I'm an enumerator, and I haven't seen this at all.

[Guest Caveman]

I am only required to answer one question and if they come to my door I will answer that one question and that will be the end of our conversation. This "it's your civic duty" and "the information is just for our benefit" stuff is getting old to me. I guess I'll just sit here with my tinfoil hat and stare at the spiders on my wall while I wait for the Marshals to show up.

[Steelharp]

Guys, c'mon; it's 7-10 stinkin' questions. It's NOTHING compared to 2000 when I did it. Back then, it was SO invasive, I wouldn't even ask some of the questions. If you'll check census' taken back in the earlier part of the 1900's (now that they're available), those folks had to fill out a friggin' bookfull of information; and they didn't mind. Stop the chest thumpin'; you look ridiculous.

[Guest Caveman]

Guys, c'mon; it's 7-10 stinkin' questions. It's NOTHING compared to 2000 when I did it. Back then, it was SO invasive, I wouldn't even ask some of the questions. If you'll check census' taken back in the earlier part of the 1900's (now that they're available), those folks had to fill out a friggin' bookfull of information; and they didn't mind. Stop the chest thumpin'; you look ridiculous.

Soooo.....because I won't answer questions I don't want to, or have to answer I am "chest thumping" and look "ridiculous?" I guess I'll just have to be ridiculous while you drink up the government's Cheers.

[Steelharp]

It's not the Government; it's the Constitution. Your problem with that is...?

Article 1.

Section 1

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the

United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Section 2

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second

Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall

have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of

the State Legislature.

No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of

twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who

shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be

chosen.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States

which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers,

which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons,

including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not

taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting

of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten

Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Steelharp

[Guest Caveman]

It's not the Government; it's the Constitution. Your problem with that is...?

Article 1.

Section 1

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the

United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Section 2

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second

Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall

have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of

the State Legislature.

No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of

twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who

shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be

chosen.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States

which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers,

which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons,

including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not

taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting

of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten

Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

...

[Guest Caveman]

It's not the Government; it's the Constitution. Your problem with that is...?

Article 1.

Section 1

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the

United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Section 2

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second

Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall

have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of

the State Legislature.

No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of

twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who

shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be

chosen.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States

which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers,

which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons,

including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not

taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting

of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten

Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

The original purpose of the census was to calculate the population. I know the Constitution and I will answer the one question for the original purposes the census was intended. Your problem with that is....?

[Guest oldsmobile98]

I actually haven't sent mine in yet, though I have been meaning to do so. My bad.

I am just gonna fill that one question out. The Constitution requires it, and I am happy to comply.

The rest of the questions are optional, and I won't answer them. It's for tax purposes only. All they need to know is the number of people. Steelharp, your argument is that it is only 7-10 questions. That isn't the problem. The problem is that the data can only be misused. My data is mine. They can't have it. Except that they already have it. So why are they asking for it again?

If the government had shown that it trusted the citizen, I would be happy to answer a bunch of questions. But the government has shown a million times over that it doesn't trust me or you. I say: fine. It's a two-way street.

And if the Marshals want to come visit, they can. I will be polite, just as I will be polite to any census workers. Nobody has been prosecuted for refusing to fill out the census since 1960. The reason is that the number of people who refuse to answer personal questions is just too big.

I don't think that my actions will have any big effect. But an ocean is just a lot of drops of water. Each one counts.

To borrow from Patrick Henry,

If this be chest-thumping, make the most of it!

[Steelharp]

Olds, no point to sending it in. If you haven't sent it, you're already on someone's visit list.

All the info they ask for is available through the tax assessor's office; however, by law, the Census bureau is a separate entity, and cannot collect information from any other agency. Conversely, they cannot give the information to any other agency, by law. Yes, I realize census info was used in WWII; that was an exceptional situation, and not the norm. Wartime changes things.

You can refuse to answer any question you wish. It will be noted on your form, and it will be reassigned to another enumerator, and you'll get a knock again.

Nothing is asked about SS#'s, accounts, etc. Simply names, sex, ages, race, and if you own/rent. What about that raises the hackles?

There won't be any prosecution; just up to a $5,000 fine.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Steelharp
Correct possible fine amount