it's offical my egineering degree has been awarded!

[Farman]

Well done!!!

[Good_Steward]

Welcome to the wonderful world of knowing you are always correct, with paperwork to prove it.

All joking aside, my engineering degree + years of experience in the trenches excercising the knowledge that degree provided has opened a lot of doors to opportunities for me and my family. Good luck with grad school, but you've got the hardest part whipped. Definitely get your Green Belt cert, and work on the Black Belt. Hot commodities right now, and DMAIC philosophies should be ingrained in you pretty well at this point. I actually started on my Black Belt cert earlier this month, 32 class hours (and about 40 project hours) in to it at this point.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Good_Steward

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Wish I'd got an Eng degree. Majored in Engineering for awhile, but didn't at the time have a long enough attention span to tolerate it. Always had difficulty studying uninteresting topics I couldn't see an immediate application for. It was easier to get a degree in things that seemed "more interesting" at the time.

By the time my interests had changed, and the attention span got longer, and I could see an immediate application for some of the topics, it was never convenient to go back to school. But Buttonhook's story shows he put up with a bunch of inconvenience to go back and finish up.

After retirement, if my brain hasn't rotted too severely, maybe go back and take a few EE and math courses for basic curiosity. Am too foggy on some fundamental concepts and it seems difficult to learn them well without a formal class forcing you to get a grip on the entirety.

When reading up for a solution to a specific problem, I skim over stuff that doesn't seem immediately applicable. Even now, insufficient discipline to learn the uninteresting parts. I admire folks who force themselves learn the uninteresting parts along with the good stuff.

That was kinda the drill on all the school work. Slog along for weeks on uninteresting topics, then one day they cover something interesting and you get excited. Then they move along back into the drudgery, and I'm saying, "Wait! Don't go on just yet! You finally got on something interesting!"

[peejman]

Welcome to the wonderful world of knowing you are always correct, with paperwork to prove it.

All joking aside, my engineering degree + years of experience in the trenches excercising the knowledge that degree provided has opened a lot of doors to opportunities for me and my family. Good luck with grad school, but you've got the hardest part whipped. Definitely get your Green Belt cert, and work on the Black Belt. Hot commodities right now, and DMAIC philosophies should be ingrained in you pretty well at this point. I actually started on my Black Belt cert earlier this month, 32 class hours (and about 40 project hours) in to it at this point.

The value of the Six Sigma stuff is highly dependent on the environment you work in. High volume manufacturing operations think it's the solution to all the world's problems. (I think that's mostly because once the CEO's realized how much they paid some consultant to train all their engineers to do stuff they should already know how to do, they had to make it gospel so they didn't look like total morons... but that's another topic. ) Smaller volume operations could care less about it. I'd put near zero value on it in academia, unless needed for consulting.

[Good_Steward]

The value of the Six Sigma stuff is highly dependent on the environment you work in. High volume manufacturing operations think it's the solution to all the world's problems. (I think that's mostly because once the CEO's realized how much they paid some consultant to train all their engineers to do stuff they should already know how to do, they had to make it gospel so they didn't look like total morons... but that's another topic. ) Smaller volume operations could care less about it. I'd put near zero value on it in academia, unless needed for consulting.

Six Sigma has it's detractors, just as ZD, TQM, and TPM, but all are valuable training tools in making your company more efficient and more quality oriented, which in turn makes your company more cost efficient. This doubly applies to smaller operations where the profit margins or EBITDA are much lower, and savings are vital to survival.

It also makes you more marketable in job hunting. The average professional with a black belt cert earns approximately $20k per year more than a colleague with the same amount of experince and education otherwise.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Good_Steward

[Guest buttonhook]

My senior project was comp. on Six Sigma. the main beni to the company is that NON engineering types (CEO's) can see the "numbers" that goes along with the technical information. It allows the bean counters to see how the changes effect the bottom line. It also allows the engineers to see how sometimes perfection costs more than it worth when perfection is not needed (I know it goes against everything I know). Six sigma allows for a small magin of error and the engineers find out that sometimes all that is needed is 4 sigma or 3 sigma and the cost of achieving six sigma is just not worth the effort.

I figured with the MBA, a degree in engineering, and six sigma cert. should make me some extra money if and when I want to use it and consulting is the way to go!

[peejman]

Six Sigma has it's detractors, just as ZD, TQM, and TPM, but all are valuable training tools in making your company more efficient and more quality oriented, which in turn makes your company more cost efficient. This doubly applies to smaller operations where the profit margins or EBITDA are much lower, and savings are vital to survival.

It also makes you more marketable in job hunting. The average professional with a black belt cert earns approximately $20k per year more than a colleague with the same amount of experince and education otherwise.

I'm not necessarily a detractor... Six Sigma is an excellent statistical problem solving tool. But it's really just a buzz word that corporate business people have latched onto.. it's the latest in a long history of acronyms that all accomplish the same thing. An engineer should already know how to do that. They might not know all the buzz words, but the basic problem solving process is there. If companies took the money they spent training the bean counters and hired more competent engineers into their quality organizations, they'd be better off in the long run.

In my experience, the smaller the company, the bigger the margin. I used to work in the auto industry where we threw a party if we made 2% gross margin. I then worked for a smaller industrial products company followed by a yet smaller aerospace company where anything less than 20% gets laughed at.

I'll agree that the Six Sigma stuff makes you more marketable and can command a higher salary. The trick is finding somewhere in this job market that'll pay it.

[Guest Archminister01]

Congratulations and well done!

[peejman]

My senior project was comp. on Six Sigma. the main beni to the company is that NON engineering types (CEO's) can see the "numbers" that goes along with the technical information. It allows the bean counters to see how the changes effect the bottom line. It also allows the engineers to see how sometimes perfection costs more than it worth when perfection is not needed (I know it goes against everything I know). Six sigma allows for a small magin of error and the engineers find out that sometimes all that is needed is 4 sigma or 3 sigma and the cost of achieving six sigma is just not worth the effort.

I figured with the MBA, a degree in engineering, and six sigma cert. should make me some extra money if and when I want to use it and consulting is the way to go!

The highlighted statement above is the root of the problem IMO... bean counters running the show who don't understand the why's behind it all. All they know is balance sheets and income statements.

In my experience, it was the bean counters who demanded perfection and failed to recognize the cost. We (engineering) had to make the argument to prove to them that in some cases, it's cheaper to make a few scrap parts than it is to fix the reason you're scrapping them.

The mathematician/physicist/bean counter asks.... "How good is it?"

The engineer asks... "Is it good enough?"

We all work toward perfection, but when perfection isn't value-added... why bother?

Edited December 30, 2010 by peejman

[Guest buttonhook]

sometimes as an engineer we also tend to "over-engineer" somethings "just in case". I know I tend to think about all the possible problems and then try to design for all possible problems. By laying out the six sigma information it allows the Bean counters to see that sometimes the numbers dont add up when they want to make changes "for the better" I also allows the engineer to see that sometimes having a certain number of failures is "ok" because designing the process to fix the problems sometimes is just not worth the time and effort. if you are of the mind set that it is not perfect but "good enough" then Six Sigma allows you to prove it to the Bean counter in a way that they can understand (charts, graphs, excel spread sheets, etc.) if done correctly if should make both groups better.

The reason that Six Sigma effects larger companies more is that larger companies have more chances for errors because they have opportunities for errors (more cooks in the kitchen). So a small change in one process can effect many, many , many more processes on down the line.

not saying anything bad about making 20% profit on a 1,000 units...but the richest companies in the world dont make 20% profit on small volumes they make 2% on a 1,000,000,000 units. six sigma if done correctly should allow the company making a small % profit to increase the profits without increasing price and while increasing the quality of the product. So if using six sigma increases profit by 1% it will mean more to a large volume company work on a small margin . "value-added" is what six sigma is all about

Edited December 30, 2010 by buttonhook

[peejman]

So if using six sigma increases profit by 1% it will mean more to a large volume company work on a small margin

Exactly... When you're making 2% margin on 2,000,000 widgets per year, a small increase in volume or margin means you make big profits. As we learned (repeatedly) at my former employer, a small decrease in volume or margin also means you lose lots of money. It's fine line to walk.

[Good_Steward]

I understand completely that C level titles are concerned about the ROI of the projects, and I agree to some point. Six Sigma has become a buzzword, but the methodology is not about ROI, it's about making our processes more reliable, efficient, quality oriented, and customer-centric. The dollar amount of the above is what people on the outside latch on to.

[Guest buttonhook]

yeap......thats why the bean counter really really like six sigma....plus they are the ones normally writing the big check! So make them happy $$$ and they will make you happy $$$. that is the real "value-added" to you....if you "add value" to their bottom line they will "add value" to your bottom line

Edited December 30, 2010 by buttonhook

[Good_Steward]

Yep. Honestly, I'm stuck in the middle with a lot of it, simply because I am an engineer, but also management. I see both sides. I like being involved in projects that simply make processes more ergonomic, because we have happier employees with a better attitude, but I also like to see projects that earn my company money, because it earns me money in evals, bonuses, and looks good on a resume should I ever decide to leave.

[Guest buttonhook]

but being and engineer and a "bean counter" allows you to see both sides of it

funny thing is in My six sigma class I was only one of two undergrads in the class and it was also the final class for the MBA program. so I did the same final project as the MBA grads. 100 pages of hell!

Edited December 30, 2010 by buttonhook

[Bubba0031]

Congratulations. Now the fun starts with taking the ETI (FE exam) and working toward being eligable to take the PE. If I recall the state board now grants a year of experience toward the PE for completing grad school.

[peejman]

yeap......thats why the bean counter really really like six sigma....plus they are the ones normally writing the big check! So make them happy $$$ and they will make you happy $$$. that is the real "value-added" to you....if you "add value" to their bottom line they will "add value" to your bottom line

In my experience, management couldn't care less about my bottom line, so long as theirs is where they want it. A couple of my projects saved that company $200,000 to $500,000 annually. The raises I got didn't even cover my healthcare premium increases, but they sure got their bonuses (25%-50% of my salary). Forgive my cynicism.

[Guest buttonhook]

not a problem some times that is just the way it is....although with the Six sigma cert. you can "qualified" to BE the managment even if you already are.

i'm still not sure I want to set for the boards (EIT or PE) right now I didn't do it for my architecture degree either never needed it the Architect of record (one of the partners) always stamped the drawings no matter who did the drawings and it keep the liability off of me . Plus I would need at least 4 years (working under a PE) and right now I'm not leaving my current job so thats not happening...yet

Edited December 30, 2010 by buttonhook

[Trekbike]

In my experience, management couldn't care less about my bottom line, so long as theirs is where they want it. A couple of my projects saved that company $200,000 to $500,000 annually. The raises I got didn't even cover my healthcare premium increases, but they sure got their bonuses (25%-50% of my salary). Forgive my cynicism.

Unfortunately that's going to always be the way it is unless you work for yourself. As an engineer we are usually going be expected to annually save the company 5-10x or more of your annual salary. Some companies allow the engineer to keep a certain percentage of the savings, unfortunately mine isn't one of them.

i'm still not sure I want to set for the boards (EIT or PE) right now

My advice would be to take your EIT now while everything is still fresh. When I was in school it was a requirement at my school to take the EIT before you could graduate. You didn't have to pass it, just had to take it.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Trekbike

[Guest buttonhook]

My advice would be to take your EIT now while everything is still fresh. When I was in school it was a requirement at my school to take the EIT before you could graduate. You didn't have to pass it, just had to take it.

Ha ha your prob. right but...the problem is it's not really that fresh...I didn't need but 2-3 "engineering" classes to graduate....one was the six sigma final project, one other was an industrial supervision class, and the last one was a technical communication class (writing technical papers and reports, reviews, and oral presentations). It has been 15 years since I took most of my "engineering" classes. Most of what I took was "added" because I changed schools (since I had started my masters at another school) So I had to complete 30 hours at the "new" school to graduate from that school (even though I had went there in the 90's so I now have over 200 credit hours and I only needed 120 to finish).

This time I took mostly education classes (since I double majored) and a few "new" required classes (like literary heritage, cultural anthropology, etc.). So I really would need to work in the field a little while again before I try and take those tests.

I too had to take a couple of graduation exams (made 96% on one and 93% on the other) so I'm sure i could pass the EIT test but I would want to bone up a little.

Edited December 30, 2010 by buttonhook

[Guest strelcevina]

let me add something to

i got engineering degree that i finished back in Germany "not English speaking school:) ". i was 22 years old with diploma in my hand. i was employed from same company who paid for my education

i worked there until i had to move here.

anyway there is golden rule in Germany when it comes to school .

if you 30 years old and still go to school ,you are barely employable and you should strongly consider to stop .

if u 35 and older then you are not employable and should definitely stop .

and like always there's is an exception

[Guest buttonhook]

let me add something to

i got engineering degree that i finished back in Germany "not English speaking school:) ". i was 22 years old with diploma in my hand. i was employed from same company who paid for my education

i worked there until i had to move here.

anyway there is golden rule in Germany when it comes to school .

if you 30 years old and still go to school ,you are barely employable and you should strongly consider to stop .

if u 35 and older then you are not employable and should definitely stop .

and like always there's is an exception

Unless your job IS school...which mine IS right now. plus it would be different if I didn't already have a degree before hand. There's always room to learn something new. So i guess in germany you learn all you need to know before your 35 right? Of course over there they also sort of pick your path for you based on your test scores. Do they still have the three paths? 1 straight to work after approx 9 grade, 1 after 10 grade, and the other you go to college after 13th grade? if so thing are different over there, but I understand your point at some point you become too old and with too little experience to be a value to employ.

FYI I did this degree for ME....not to really improve my job status (I have a job)..although if that is a by product well then great. Now the masters degree will mean more pay (even at my current job)

Edited December 30, 2010 by buttonhook

[Good_Steward]

let me add something to

i got engineering degree that i finished back in Germany "not English speaking school:) ". i was 22 years old with diploma in my hand. i was employed from same company who paid for my education

i worked there until i had to move here.

anyway there is golden rule in Germany when it comes to school .

if you 30 years old and still go to school ,you are barely employable and you should strongly consider to stop .

if u 35 and older then you are not employable and should definitely stop .

and like always there's is an exception

Thank God we are not in Germany, and your saying does not hold true. Born a serf, stay a serf, huh? Welcome to America, land of opportunity, no matter how old you are.....

[volfanatic72]

Congrats on completing your engineering degree. I completed mine 14 years ago this month (geez that makes me feel like I'm getting old!).

If you have any ideas of getting into industry, you might look into taking a few classes in reliability engineering. I've been in the reliability field for 6 years now, and it seems to be a growing field. UT happens to offer one of the best programs in the country for reliability engineering. You will use a lot of the tools discussed in previous posts, but there is a big focus on predictive and preventive maintenance.

As a suggestion, go ahead and take the FE now while things are fresh in your mind. I wouldn't want to think about having to go back and take it after being out of school for a few years.

[Guest buttonhook]

well i just finished the application to UTK...double major....MBA and MS in mechanical engineering....I hope I get in and I hope I'm up for it!! 16 month program...