Concealed Carry Killers ?

[Fourtyfive]

VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers

[macville]

If you can critically think, you'll notice their glaring stat that goes against them....the amount of killings by gun and in public. They include a crap load of killings into their stats if someone kills someone and has a permit...doesn't matter if it was a gun or if you needed a permit to carry where the killings happened.

I also think that they are accusing people before they are convicted. They have the AZ guy in the mass shootings PDF as a "killer" even though, while tons of evidence, he has not been convicted. It would be great for someone to sue them over their libel.

[DaveTN]

If you can critically think, you'll notice their glaring stat that goes against them....the amount of killings by gun and in public. They include a crap load of killings into their stats if someone kills someone and has a permit...doesn't matter if it was a gun or if you needed a permit to carry where the killings happened.

I also think that they are accusing people before they are convicted. They have the AZ guy in the mass shootings PDF as a "killer" even though, while tons of evidence, he has not been convicted. It would be great for someone to sue them over their libel.

He would need to prove that statement was false and that he suffered damages. I don't think we need to worry about Jared Lee Loughner proving he didn't kill anyone.

Only people not in touch with reality would hold HCP holders to a higher standard than the average citizen. The average citizen is not a criminal and would be eligible for a carry permit if they wanted it and could afford it.

[Volphin]

I'm not worried about what 6 DC guys and a cat think.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

First of all their study is based on Google searches. More info in that:

http://www.saysuncle.com/2009/11/18/at-the-violence-policy-center/

http://www.saysuncle.com/2009/07/21/another-vpc-google-study/

Also these are arrests and not convictions (most end up not being convicted because it was determined they acted in self defense).

And also VPC likes to lie and twist things (surprise) because it fits their gun grabbing agenda.

Here's an article on how in a study they counted a gun permit (which some states require to simply purchase and own a gun) as a concealed carry permit:

http://daysofourtrailers.blogspot.com/2010/04/vpc-making-up-claims.html

[Guest mosinon]

I've actually looked through those stats a ton. You can make a lot of great arguments with them. The one argument that is very hard to make is that mass shootings are the result of concealed carry. But that seems to be what they want you to think.

Even if every thing the study says is absolutely true when you stack it up against all murders the actions of the concealed carry folks don't really rate. It is like noting that smoke detectors cause cancer (they do, not much) and supposing that banning smoke detectors would somehow save lives.

[macville]

He would need to prove that statement was false and that he suffered damages. I don't think we need to worry about Jared Lee Loughner proving he didn't kill anyone.

Only people not in touch with reality would hold HCP holders to a higher standard than the average citizen. The average citizen is not a criminal and would be eligible for a carry permit if they wanted it and could afford it.

Except that you are innocent until proven guilty. The media is VERY careful to put "accused" before they put the word killer because it's libel otherwise. Why should it be any different for the VPC? Even if he's convicted, it's not legal for them to say just "killer" before he's found guilty.

[DaveTN]

Except that you are innocent until proven guilty. The media is VERY careful to put "accused" before they put the word killer because it's libel otherwise. Why should it be any different for the VPC? Even if he's convicted, it's not legal for them to say just "killer" before he's found guilty.

The media uses the word accused because it is proper; not because they fear a lawsuit. Many people that have TV or talk radio shows have called Jared Loughner (and all these other mass murderers) a killer. They are covered by the 1st amendment. Loughner would have legal recourse if he didn’t kill anyone and he suffered damages from the statements.

Worrying that a mass murderer might sue you is as silly as saying “most†of those cases listed will be ruled self-defense.

[Guest friesepferd]

aside from all the facts stated above. what are the percentages? What PERCENT of x y and z killings are from permit holders. And what is that percent compaired to the percent of people that have a carry permit?

Are 1% of all mass shootings made by someone with a permit, yet 7% of people have a permit? If thats the case, then those with permits are more law abiding than those without, etc. Raw (and incorrect) numbers say nothing.

[Will Carry]

There are about 30,000 people killed each year by firearms. About 290 by permit holders. That is less than 1%.

[DaveTN]

There are about 30,000 people killed each year by firearms. About 290 by permit holders. That is less than 1%.

To know that every state that has a permit program in place would have to have a block on a police report to check if the suspect has a permit. Can Tennessee (or in your case NC) track crimes committed by HCP holders?

Either side of any issue can claim whatever they like when you don’t have uniform solid practices for gathering data. I would bet neither side knows how many shootings permit holders commit.

But that just a WAG.

[Louisb]

My biggest concern is the 11 LEOs.

Want to know the whole story on that.

That aside, I figure that figures don't lie, but then . . . so many are misused

[eapking]

My biggest concern is the 11 LEOs.

Want to know the whole story on that.

That aside, I figure that figures don't lie, but then . . . so many are misused

Yeah, I'd love to hear the stories on those. As said elsewhere here, these guys intentionally misclassify suicides as murders.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Violence Policy Center, Brady Bunch, Southern Poverty Law Center, Code Pink, blah, blah, blah.