Don't think this is how the "stand your ground law" works

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't think anyone knows the facts in this case. What you heard from interviews don't

make them facts. The truth has a nasty habit of coming out, eventually, and judging from

where they are coming from right now, I doubt justice will get served. Trying someone by

the court of public opinion isn't justice.

[Guest RevScottie]

For those that say let the courts handle the case and that the media is pulling the race card; almost NO investigation was done after this killing. This is the reason the family attorney contacted the media. The cops merely took the shooter's word that it was self defense; why? He was not held for questioning; he was allowed to go home with his gun.

Once again the facts of the case are ignored and instead some grand cover up theory is embraced. Zimmerman was cuffed, placed in the patrol car, and interviewed by investigators at the police station. His handgun was placed into evidence.

A little bit of research sheds a lot of light on this case. Our police officers have a hard enough job without people second guessing their ability to do their job. Following is a link to the police report, note multiple witnesses are listed as well:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

[QuietDan]

Once again the facts of the case are ignored and instead some grand cover up theory is embraced. Zimmerman was cuffed, placed in the patrol car, and interviewed by investigators at the police station. His handgun was placed into evidence.

A little bit of research sheds a lot of light on this case. Our police officers have a hard enough job without people second guessing their ability to do their job. Following is a link to the police report, note multiple witnesses are listed as well:

http://www.sanfordfl...al%20Report.pdf

Thank you very much for the police report. That is exactly what is needed in this case, facts.

I'm waiting for the investigators report, as referenced in the initial police report. And then the Grand Jury's determination. And then, if warranted, a trial, with sworn testimony. And then a jury decision. That's how things are done.

There is a process for these matters, and the process ought to be followed, without the media lynch mob baying on television and in the newspapers.

All the usual suspects are working hard to politicize this, and drag in crap that has nothing to do with the confrontation between these two individuals.

Once upon a time, I was confident that "justice would prevail." Under the current administration, with an admittedly biased "Attorney General" Eric Holder, I am much less confident that justice will prevail.

Edited March 23, 2012 by QuietDan

[QuietDan]

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin

• By Kyle Rogers, Charleston Conservative Examiner
  

Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this.

So why does one shooting in Florida warrant weeks of national news? Why has there been thousands of articles a day, for the last four days, about one single shooting?

Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2†football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.

Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George ZImmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

1. The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
   
2. The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
   
3. Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
   
4. Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.
   

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

In fact the Miami Herald goes on to interview neighbor, Ibrahim Rashada, who is black. Rashada ​confirms that there has been a lot of crime in the neighborhood and indicates to the reporter that the perpetrators are usually black.

The media also characterizes Trayvon as a "model student." In fact, he under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.

Now that you know the suppressed facts of the case, you can for form a better more balanced opinion. Maybe you still think Zimmerman was wrong to pull the trigger. However, I think you will come to the conclusion that the "mainstream" clearly is pushing an agenda. Even when they have to grossly alter and adjust a story to fit that agenda.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com http://www.examiner....n#ixzz1pwTjnOeg

Edited March 23, 2012 by QuietDan

[TMF]

Yep, the media distorts the facts and ad-lib when necessary to sensationalize a story. On thing they can't distort are Zimmerman's own words. I heard them, read the transcripts. He was stalking the kid.

I have been on several suspensions during high school and middle school; two of them were 5 day suspensions. I had to fight sometimes, and every one of my fights were instigated by the other party. So what?

[mikegideon]

Zimmerman may not have been the only one to use bad judgement. I my current daily travels, I bump into as many (actually a lot more) black racists as white. I know... he was a good boy.

I am wondering how a young, lean football player couldn't outrun a fat Cuban, There are some very minor details that could flip this thing the other way.

Edited March 23, 2012 by mikegideon

[K191145]

Yep, the media distorts the facts and ad-lib when necessary to sensationalize a story. On thing they can't distort are Zimmerman's own words. I heard them, read the transcripts. He was stalking the kid. I have been on several suspensions during high school and middle school; two of them were 5 day suspensions. I had to fight sometimes, and every one of my fights were instigated by the other party. So what?

+1

The kid is dead because Zimmerman started the confrontation, he was told not to follow him by the 911 operator, he did anyway, a confrontation happened and a kid is dead now because of it. Trayvon wasn't on Zimmermans property or breaking into his house or trying to carjack him, he was walking in the neighborhood. Zimmerman is not a police officer or even a private security agent, he was a SELF APPOINTED neighborhood watch captain. Captain?

Zimmerman is responsable for Travon's death.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Zimmerman may not have been the only one to use bad judgement. I my current daily travels, I bump into as many (actually a lot more) black racists as white. I know... he was a good boy.

I am wondering how a young, lean football player couldn't outrun a fat Cuban, There are some very minor details that could flip this thing the other way.

Hi Mike

If I was able to run in such a situation, then I would most likely run. Then again, SOMETIMES if a cat faces down my coon hounds, then SOMETIMES the hounds get startled. They get confused because cats are sposed to run. Not having a very long attention span SOMETIMES the hounds forget that they wanted to eat the cat. But if the cat breaks and makes a run for it, then the cat better make it to a tree or fence afore the dawgs catch up or the cat is dog food. Maybe it can sometimes be the same if you break and run away from a human predator? Not that it wouldn't be worth a try.

On the other hand, wouldn't "stand your ground" be MORE applicable to the young black man than the slightly-older cuban? The young black man had been giving ground trying to get away from the cuban, and the cuban was the pursuer, taking up ground. If Martin finally turned around and beat the pursuer to a pulp then that would seem more true to a principle of "stand your ground" than what zimmerman was up to?

Ferinstance, if Mike was walking the "dark spot" of downtown Broadway at 3 am and a young dude started chasing you, maybe Mike would run a block or two but eventually Mike would probably turn around, draw a pistol, and if the pursuer didn't stop, then Mike would probably be justified in pulling the trigger? Mike doesn't know the armament or intent of the pursuer.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[QuietDan]

+1

The kid is dead because Zimmerman started the confrontation, he was told not to follow him by the 911 operator, he did anyway, a confrontation happened and a kid is dead now because of it. Trayvon wasn't on Zimmermans property or breaking into his house or trying to carjack him, he was walking in the neighborhood. Zimmerman is not a police officer or even a private security agent, he was a SELF APPOINTED neighborhood watch captain. Captain?

Zimmerman is responsable for Travon's death.

Let's flip this in the terms you describe.

In this case, You (We) are not a police officer, a police investigator, a medical examiner, a coroner, a district attorney, a judge, a jury, nor an executioner.

You (We) are merely the (self-appointed) court of public opinion, and in some cases the howling MOB.

Should we get a rope? Baseball bats? Torches and pitchforks? Molotov cocktails? Should we solve this case now, in the street?

Be very ashamed for Yourself (Us). Weep for the country, that we can rush to these judgements, bereft of facts, bereft of due process.

An arrest, an indictment, depositions, a court trial, all in turn, as necessary, is the only way to know what actually happened. That's the end result of a trial. Until a trial, if it comes to that, no one person knows the facts. The facts must be separated from suppostion, and then the facts are collected. This happens in a trial, and no one knows the totality of the facts until a trial. Right now, we haven't even gotten as far as an arrest. We have a long way to go.

The overt public reaction shows that as a Nation, we have even farther to go.

Edited March 23, 2012 by QuietDan

[K191145]

On the other hand, wouldn't "stand your ground" be MORE applicable to the young black man than the slightly-older cuban? The young black man had been giving ground trying to get away from the cuban, and the cuban was the pursuer, taking up ground. If Martin finally turned around and beat the pursuer to a pulp then that would seem more true to a principle of "stand your ground" than what zimmerman was up to?

+1

We all know at least one FACT , I personally don't believe the media manufactured a false 911 recording so it is a FACT that Zimmerman started the confrontation when he was told not to and had no business and no authority to confront the kid.

(Q&A session.)

Here in Tennessee if someone forces their way into my house uninvited am I justified in using deadly force if I think my life is in danger? Yes.

If someone is breaking into my tool shed on my property can I just shoot them? No. Can I yell at them to get the hell off my property, i'm calling the police with my handgun on my side? Yes. If they run away can I follow them out of my property and shoot them? No. If they turn around and point a gun at me or run at me with a knife or club can I shoot them? Yes.

If someone comes up to me on the street and makes a threat, and is capable of killing me either with a weapon or not, and I believe my life is in danger can I shoot them? Legally yes.

If I see someone on the street who looks like a gang banger and is up to no good, can I walk up to them and confront them, and if they hit me, can I shoot them? No, because I am not a cop and had no business starting a confrontation even if I defended my self against them.

If I did that and shot someone would it be totally my fault, even if the person I started the confrontation with had some criminal record? Yes, because I am not a police officer.

Should I be criminally liable for the death of the person I shot and killed? Yes, because I had no business starting a confrontation with anyone who wasn't comitting any crime and wasn't on my property.

[mikegideon]

I'm not saying anything happened, 'cause I don't have a crytstal ball like some folks. The fact the Zimmerman was wrong has NOTHING to do with the rules of engagement once the confrontation started.

If Zimmerman simply aked him what he was doing, and the kid jumped him, then that's assault. That assault probably wouldn't be justified. If that assault continued to a critical point, like maybe where Zimmerman was screaming "help", then it changes things. It doesn't matter why either one showed up. It matters what happened in the confrontation.

WE don't know all the details, or at least I don't

[mikegideon]

+1

We all know at least one FACT , I personally don't believe the media manufactured a false 911 recording so it is a FACT that Zimmerman started the confrontation when he was told not to and had no business and no authority to confront the kid.

Stupid? Probably so. Crime? Absolutely not. Who physically attacked who?

[Guest RevScottie]

It has been reported by news outlets that Zimmerman claims he was returning to his truck when the juvenile struck him from behind. We simply don't have enough facts currently to judge this man. Remember following a suspicious person inside a gated community and asking them their intentions is NOT A CRIME no matter what the 911 operator has said. Please everyone just keep speculating about a confrontation that none of us were witness too.

Seems funny that all of the internet experts seem to think they know the facts better than the officers on the scene who interviewed eyewitnesses then questioned Zimmerman and let him go because the evidence and his story matched.

[Guest profgunner]

It has been reported by news outlets that Zimmerman claims he was returning to his truck when the juvenile struck him from behind. We simply don't have enough facts currently to judge this man. Remember following a suspicious person inside a gated community and asking them their intentions is NOT A CRIME no matter what the 911 operator has said. Please everyone just keep speculating about a confrontation that none of us were witness too.

Seems funny that all of the internet experts seem to think they know the facts better than the officers on the scene who interviewed eyewitnesses then questioned Zimmerman and let him go because the evidence and his story matched.

RevScottie. Will you please provide a link to this report? I have not yet seen this.

Thanks,

Steve

[MikePapa1]

The media uproar here is getting out of hand. The facts, mostly, will come out. It's pretty clear though that Mr. Zimmerman sought a confrontation because he didn't want a black kid in a hoodie in his neighborhood. Whether Martin was a good boy, a bad boy or just a boy, there is no evidence of which I am aware that he was doing anything wrong up to the time Zimmerman confronted him. From a legal standpoint, this is a real problem. It has nothing to do with standing your ground or anything else. Clearly Zimmerman exercised decidedly poor judgment which ought to be a lesson to us all, regardless of whether he ultimately committed a crime or not.

[mikegideon]

Well... Obama is piling on now. And, just when y'all thought you would never find any common ground with the man. Maybe he'll get to do some of his under-the-radar stuff.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Guest profgunner]

Well... Obama is piling on now. And, just when y'all thought you would never find any common ground with the man. Maybe he'll get to do some of his under-the-radar stuff.

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

Well, as a father of two young sons I can understand where our president is coming from. Unlike Al Sharpton, Obama doesn't seem to be calling for mob justice. I would think less of him if he had nothing to say at this time. Like it or not, this is a very big news story.

[mikegideon]

Well, as a father of two young sons I can understand where our president is coming from. Unlike Al Sharpton, Obama doesn't seem to be calling for mob justice. I would think less of him if he had nothing to say at this time. Like it or not, this is a very big news story.

"my son would look like him". How is that relevent? I cut Obama more slack than 90% of the folks on this board. In this case... he's piling on. The gov'ment is already in the building.

EDIT: I just watched Obama's video. It went down much easier than the printed version (with CNN's edits). He doesn't appear to be joining the mob.

Edited March 23, 2012 by mikegideon

[mikegideon]

The media uproar here is getting out of hand. The facts, mostly, will come out. It's pretty clear though that Mr. Zimmerman sought a confrontation because he didn't want a black kid in a hoodie in his neighborhood. Whether Martin was a good boy, a bad boy or just a boy, there is no evidence of which I am aware that he was doing anything wrong up to the time Zimmerman confronted him. From a legal standpoint, this is a real problem. It has nothing to do with standing your ground or anything else. Clearly Zimmerman exercised decidedly poor judgment which ought to be a lesson to us all, regardless of whether he ultimately committed a crime or not.

I would think that most on here know better. It may not even matter who attacked who when it's all settled. Could turn into a modern day lynching.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Just remember the results of "OJ#1" "OJrev2" and "OJ, the final story", where he was convicted and sent

to prison. There was lotsa justice flying around back then. The media and political circus is still around.

I have compassion for momma, but it is irrelevant to what happened that day. The 911 tapes may point in

several directions before this circus is over. I really hope justice is carried out, but with the actors involved,

I seriously doubt it.

The shooter deserves his day in court and any racism thrown in is a bad thing. Too bad we've allowed this

mindset to enter into society.

Obama has no business weighing in. Anything he says, right or wrong, will ultimately affect the outcome of

any trial. The feds would be well advised to stay away from this and that won't happen, either, because of

some pretty dumb federal laws. Remember the "Beer Summit"? That whole episode was ridiculous and

only caused harm.

It's not the kid or the shooter "getting justice". Justice is separate and supposed to be blind. Too bad that

probably won't happen now.

[lowery100]

I don't care what the kid did yesterday or what he may do tomorrow. That day he had just returned from the store and had a bag of Skittles and an ice tea in his hand. Some scary guy in a car was following him around and is now out confronting him with a weapon. All the while this kid is confused, scared and in the dark. This guy is standing close to him with weapon drawn and the 17 year old starts screaming!!!!!! HELP!!!!!HELP!!!!! The "watch commander" has now introduced deadly force to a kid who was armed with a bag of deadly Skittles..........Had he thrown those Skittles he may well have put out someones eye but alas they were still in his hand when his heart stopped beating and bled to death on a neighbors lawn.......Now a young man is dead.....we know not what he was or will be, because he is DEAD.

My son, as many of your sons and daughters have made mistakes in their early lives. My son was caught with marijuana in high school and shoplifting later that year. The road he was headed down was one of concern. Can anyone call my son a punk and deserved to be shot.....He is now in the Air Force and a Metrologist, and is going to school to obtain an electrical engineering degree. I say all this to keep in mind, that we don't know what this would have been, or could have been......because he is now DEAD......For every one on this board who make claim you are pro life, how about supporting this kids right not be shot and killed..not only was he a fertilized egg...he was a viable person who is now DEAD.........

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Reason and logic. We all know he's dead. That's about the only "fact" available. He doesn't have the

right "to not be shot". There's no valid argument for that, unless you want to take a stance on firearms,

also. I don't like the fact that he was shot, either, but we're past that stage now. Justice, if it is available,

still.

[mikegideon]

I don't care what the kid did yesterday or what he may do tomorrow. That day he had just returned from the store and had a bag of Skittles and an ice tea in his hand. Some scary guy in a car was following him around and is now out confronting him with a weapon. All the while this kid is confused, scared and in the dark. This guy is standing close to him with weapon drawn and the 17 year old starts screaming!!!!!! HELP!!!!!HELP!!!!! The "watch commander" has now introduced deadly force to a kid who was armed with a bag of deadly Skittles..........Had he thrown those Skittles he may well have put out someones eye but alas they were still in his hand when his heart stopped beating and bled to death on a neighbors lawn.......Now a young man is dead.....we know not what he was or will be, because he is DEAD.

Geez Louise. Were you there? Sure sounds like it. According to the police report, ZIMMERMAN was the one screaming help. He had a Keltec and some training. The gun may not have even been visible. it's slightly bigger than a pocket gun.

This is exactly why I hate the media. I expect all the anti's to be screaming. I would expect this crowd to wait for the evidence.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I would, too.

[mikegideon]

And BTW... Obama probably should have weighed in. You got "Million Hoodie Marches" going on. I wonder if they'll lift the ban on hoodies at my local Mapco. Anderson Cooper wears one every day.