Moral dilema

[daddyo]

The victim might be an anti-gun liberal.

They wouldn't be for long....

[Guest Broomhead]

You guys wouldn't shoot someone for attacking an animal would you?

He/I just said he/I wouldn't stand by and let it happen, not that he'd/I'd shoot someone for that.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Broomhead

[RobertNashville]

My primary reason for carrying is to protect myself (and loved ones if need be) from harm. Protecting the lives of others is secondary.

I would have to be absolutely sure of the facts of the situation before I'm going to use deadly force against someone who isn't directly threatening me. It is not that I am cold-hearted or immune to cries for help but it can be very difficult to know if deadly force is justified when the victim and the perpetrator are both total strangers to you.

[personDJ]

kill him.

[DaveS]

Well, I think for the sake of the scenario it should be assumed that it is immediately obvious that an innocent is being assaulted.

Can you be 100% SURE BEFORE you pull the trigger?

[DaveS]

That's the problem of stepping into someone elses fight!

[daddyo]

What if it's a domestic dispute? That's one situation I don't want to find myself in the middle of.

[maroonandwhite]

I would probably just call 911 and leave. I am with alot of you in that it would be painful to watch and not do something. Therefor if I call it in and get out of there. I am no longer involved and can't make a stupid decision. I might not sleep well knowing I MIGHT could have helped but I WILL be at home with my family and not in jail. It's sad that the world is like this today but honestly I carry for my sake as well as close loved one's. Everyone else should do the same.

This is definitely a hairy situation.

[robbiev]

Well, I think for the sake of the scenario it should be assumed that it is immediately obvious that an innocent is being assaulted.

Ok, leaving whether or not I would get involved aside, why should we assume that's immediately obvious? Should we just always assume that whatever appears obvious to us is what must be right? And I'm not trying to start any controversy or an agrument. I'm simply curious if you feel that's just simply what we should assume.

[daddyo]

Ok, leaving whether or not I would get involved aside, why should we assume that's immediately obvious? Should we just always assume that whatever appears obvious to us is what must be right? And I'm not trying to start any controversy or an agrument. I'm simply curious if you feel that's just simply what we should assume.

True. That kind of assumption can get one in a whole heap 'o trouble.

[Caster]

This will label me a miserable SOB....but I am so it goes with the job. I'd make my 911 call and keep moving. Me and my wife have a habit of watching our surroundings closely but not paying attention to the goings on. If that makes sense. Honestly, if me and the wife were leaving Walmart and I heard a scream my instinct is to scan for threats but NEVER stop moving toward the vehicle. Step 2: Get in sit down shut up and hold on. The beauty of a 4x4 and mindful parking practices mean I can get out quick. I might have to take out a bush and skin up my bumper...oh well.

[Dennis1209]

Not much doubt on my part.

My "moral duty" is to protect myself and my loved ones. If a situation ever occurred that required using my last resort, I would know enough that occurred and who the players are. If I walked into the situation involving a loved one, that information at that time would be a moot point anyway, I'd have to suffer the aftermath.

I realize that under Tennessee law, you are legally allowed to defend third parties from death and / or great bodily harm. Most likely you would not see the entire event as it unfolds. It's very possible to mistake the aggressor / criminal from the innocent victim, that's occurred numerous times. It's possible the perceived victim would turn on you in defense of "her man" physically and/or in a court of law.

Getting physically involved opens up a whole can of nasties that could very well negatively effect you and your family the rest of your life, as you all are well aware of.

Once you un- holster that weapon it's too late, you're committed, and best not second guess yourself or if the perceived victim is actually the victim at all.

When you make that perceived moral personal decision to intervene, you're making that decision on your families behalf also. If you guessed right, the news media will parade you all around... in the mud.

So, it all boils down to self preservation or sacrifice. I'm definitely not cold hearted but, given the choice, I prefer to error on the side of caution and not face a judge explaining my perceived observations and improper / illegal felony actions. I know who BUBBA is and where he lives, I don't want to personally marry him. I don't want to be forced to sell everything I own by a court of law and transfer it to someone else because I made an honest error in judgment. I don't want my paycheck substantially garnished and given to another as mentioned above.

If you un- holster that gun in public, I can imagine it affecting the rest of your entire life. Will it be worth it?

P.S. I just read all the preceding posts. I just parroted what most said.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Dennis1209

[LagerHead]

#3. Do the morally right thing. A man does the right thing regardless of the potential consequences. All the legal hell that everyone worries about happens very, very rarely anyway. If you stand there and watch it happen I'm not sure how you would look at yourself in the mirror.

[maroonandwhite]

#3. Do the morally right thing. A man does the right thing regardless of the potential consequences. All the legal hell that everyone worries about happens very, very rarely anyway. If you stand there and watch it happen I'm not sure how you would look at yourself in the mirror.

I consider myself a man but my responsibility (based on my religious beliefs of course) are to my wife, myself and my children in that order. If I do something that lands me in prison I am not there to protect them at all. Just my opinion though and it ain't worth much nowadays.

[Dennis1209]

#3. Do the morally right thing. A man does the right thing regardless of the potential consequences. All the legal hell that everyone worries about happens very, very rarely anyway. If you stand there and watch it happen I'm not sure how you would look at yourself in the mirror.

You wouldn't have to worry about the mirror. That's one of those things that goes with the house when you sell it to help pay for the judgment against you.

I do agree with you but... It's a sad state of affairs and law when you have to do "the right thing" by the numbers.

[Guest Springfield1911guy]

I don’t have the protections I had as a cop, so I’m not getting involved in any situation that doesn’t involve an individual needing my immediate help. But when someone is being killed; I’m steeping in. I would very quickly let the guy know if he didn’t stop I was going to kill him. If he makes a move towards her or me with the knife again; I shoot him.

Bother me? Absolutely not, I could shoot him and go eat lunch. There is no “moral dilemma†for me. I would think the moral dilemma would be if you stood by and watched someone stabbed to death and did nothing.

This! I could not live with myself if I did nothing but stand there and watch. Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't Tennessee law say that we have the right to protect ourselves AND, any innocents present?

Why do we carry? If all you're willing to do is dial 911, leave your gun at home, all you need is your telephone.

[maroonandwhite]

This! I could not live with myself if I did nothing but stand there and watch. Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't Tennessee law say that we have the right to protect ourselves AND, any innocents present?

Why do we carry? If all you're willing to do is dial 911, leave your gun at home, all you need is your telephone.

I would be really careful with that line of thinking. I am not suggesting you are wrong in helping someone in need but sometimes it's best to to not get involved. Just because I have my gun doesn't mean I should use it. Sometimes 911 and leave may be the best option.

Edited July 18, 2012 by bendbolden

[Guest Springfield1911guy]

Can you be 100% SURE BEFORE you pull the trigger?

The tip off would be the sight of a blade going in and out of the womans body.

[Guest President Fernatt]

He/I just said he/I wouldn't stand by and let it happen, not that he'd/I'd shoot someone for that.

I was just kiddin'

[Guest bkelm18]

#3. Do the morally right thing. A man does the right thing regardless of the potential consequences. All the legal hell that everyone worries about happens very, very rarely anyway. If you stand there and watch it happen I'm not sure how you would look at yourself in the mirror.

You must not watch the news a whole lot.

Do they have mirrors in prison? I'm sure they do. I for one don't want to find our for sure when I get charged for murder if I judged the situation wrong. People die every day. It's not my job or obligation to save every one of them. Even in this scenario, it's still not my obligation. My priority is me and mine. Not anyone else.

Why do we carry? If all you're willing to do is dial 911, leave your gun at home, all you need is your telephone.

Why do we carry? Beats me. I'm just one person. Why do I carry? I carry for me. Not you. Not random people. Just me and my family.

Edited July 18, 2012 by bkelm18

[maroonandwhite]

The tip off would be the sight of a blade going in and out of the womans body.

As stated earlier what if the woman initiated the confrontation by stabbing the supposed bad guy first and he took the weapon and used it in self defense. Far fetched I know but there can be alot of "what if's".

[Guest President Fernatt]

You must not watch the news a whole lot.

Do they have mirrors in prison? I'm sure they do. I for one don't want to find our for sure when I get charged for murder if I judged the situation wrong. People die every day. It's not my job or obligation to save every one of them. Even in this scenario, it's still not my obligation. My priority is me and mine. Not anyone else.

Why do we carry? Beats me. I'm just one person. Why do I carry? I carry for me. Not you. Not random people. Just me and my family.

I consider saving a woman's life instead of watching her get butchered is a benefit to "me and mine". I refuse to question anyone's response because we all act differently and thank God for that. I'm simply adding that this situation is based less on personal safety and more on personal conviction. I simply could not let someone get stabbed to death in front of my eyes without doing something. Would I shoot? I can't say....I'm not likely to ever need to answer that and don't believe I will know until the event arises. BUT...I would do "something" to not only protect that lady but also to protect my peace of mind and satisfy personal conviction.

[Guest bkelm18]

I consider saving a woman's life instead of watching her get butchered is a benefit to "me and mine".

I'm not telling anyone else to do either, I'm just saying what I would/would not do. If you think you would have to do something morally, more power to you. That's your decision. Me? I'm a heartless ogre. I can live with it knowing that I got my family out of there safely. If the situation presented itself and I knew with 100% certainty of the circumstances and I could end it without jeopardizing my safety, then that is something I would have to consider.

Edited July 18, 2012 by bkelm18

[Caster]

I'm not telling anyone else to do either, I'm just saying what I would/would not do. If you think you would have to do something morally, more power to you. That's your decision. Me? I'm a heartless ogre. I can live with it knowing that I got my family out of there safely. If the situation presented itself and I knew with 100% certainty of the circumstances and I could end it without jeopardizing my safety, then that is something I would have to consider.

Sorry if anyone disagrees but that's not being a heartless ogre, that's just knowing your priorities and sticking to them. BY intervening you would be jeopardizing you immediate responsibility. Another threat may present itself and you'd be occupied. You could get injured or killed in the process. Either takes you and the resources you provide to your family, away from them. If that's being a heartless ogre, then I am too.

[enfield]

This! I could not live with myself if I did nothing but stand there and watch. Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't Tennessee law say that we have the right to protect ourselves AND, any innocents present?

Why do we carry? If all you're willing to do is dial 911, leave your gun at home, all you need is your telephone.

Tennessee law does not protect you from prosecution or lawsuits resulting from your interpretation of a lawful response.

I carry to protect me and mine -- I'm not the Lone Ranger.

Edited July 18, 2012 by enfield