Texting & Lone Survivor Don't Mix in Fla

[teecro]

Uh, no we haven't.  Or I haven't at least.  Lethal force is a last resort.  I don't fantasize about using it on people.

 

Makes me sad to think that a young girl will never see her father alive again and that he died while returning a text to her...

 

I think that the old man is in deep trouble here as he started this altercation, left the theater, returned to his seat and restarted the argument and when it escalated he shot and killed the man. Way too many bad choices made here.

[Nynick81]

Makes me sad to think that a young girl will never see her father alive again and that he died while returning a text to her...

I think that the old man is in deep trouble here as he started this altercation, left the theater, returned to his seat and restarted the argument and when it escalated he shot and killed the man. Way too many bad choices made here.

Those were my first thoughts about that little girl. I have a little girl and that hits home because it makes me think how fast some "asshat" can rob my family of a life. Over a damn cell phone. And of course this is only my two cents, but I feel that if people really think quite often, about how easy they could just end someone, then maybe some people should really think long and hard if they need a gun to begin with.

[TMF]

A little off track, but that area sure has changed.  I grew up in Pasco county back when it was mostly orange groves, cow pastures and a few golf courses.  For most of high school I lived only minutes from the scene and dated the girl who's parents owned the land where that theater is now located.  The 2 lane road that went from Tampa to wesley chapel was called "the road to nowhere" by almost everyone in Tampa.  Now Pasco county is basically one huge subdivision.

Yep. My family still has a small cattle ranch in the last undeveloped, rural bastion in Hudson. I go there once or twice a year to visit. Used to be nothing but dirt roads to get out there. Now there are several retirement communities only minutes away.

[sigmtnman]

Yep. My family still has a small cattle ranch in the last undeveloped, rural bastion in Hudson. I go there once or twice a year to visit. Used to be nothing but dirt roads to get out there. Now there are several retirement communities only minutes away.

 

Hudson, huh?  This sounds familiar, have we talked about this before?  We played Hudson when I went to Zephyrhills for school.  I don't recall if we played them in Land O' Lakes or not, but it was closer and I knew a number of folks who lived there.

[TMF]

Hudson, huh?  This sounds familiar, have we talked about this before? 

Ha, probably. I was just there a few weeks ago. Took the kids over to Clearwater beach and drove up hwy 19 to Pasco. Just nasty in that area.

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Come on... Do yall really thing a retired cop shot a guy over texting? I dont think its that cut an dry.

 

What we know is that the two had a issue about texting an the old man left the theater then came back then something else happened where someone thinks they saw someone throw popcorn but does not know who then he heard one shot... So all he really knows is that popcorn was in the air just before a shot..

 

Cop very well could have got mad about someone texting, went to get his gun an murdered the man for it. But we dont know. He just as well could have just went an got some popcorn thinking it was over an came back to be jumped in the dark by a gang banger half his age an assaulted cause the man though he ratted him out.

 

There is just not enough info to hang the old guy out to dry. Can any of us say we have enough info on how this played out to know we would have never fired? I would like to say I would not have but without being there an knowing what actually happened I cant say.

[TMF]

Come on... Do yall really thing a retired cop shot a guy over texting? I dont think its that cut an dry.
 
What we know is that the two had a issue about texting an the old man left the theater then came back then something else happened where someone thinks they saw someone throw popcorn but does not know who then he heard one shot... So all he really knows is that popcorn was in the air just before a shot..
 
Cop very well could have got mad about someone texting, went to get his gun an murdered the man for it. But we dont know. He just as well could have just went an got some popcorn thinking it was over an came back to be jumped in the dark by a gang banger half his age an assaulted cause the man though he ratted him out.
 
There is just not enough info to hang the old guy out to dry. Can any of us say we have enough info on how this played out to know we would have never fired? I would like to say I would not have but without being there an knowing what actually happened I cant say.

I'm basing my opinion on the witness account. They said that the dude came back in and stated in on the guy again. Sounds to me like this dude was itching for a reason to pull his gun. I don't really care what the victim did here unless he was armed with a deadly weapon and threatened the shooter. Doesn't seem to be any witness statement saying that happened. Even if the victim threw a punch that doesn't rise to deadly force level, especially in a fight the shooter instigated. If it was legal then folks could just go around instigating fights and then shooting a person when they swing first. That's murder.

[BigK]

...Can any of us say we have enough info on how this played out to know we would have never fired?

 

You must be new around here, LOL.

 

The way we do things around here is...we speculate, conjecture, and extrapolate based on the info we have at the time. If that info changes later, we either reload and get back into the fight or dig our heels in and invent fantastic theories to support our original position (see any of the 1/2 dozen Zimmerman-Martin threads).

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

I'm basing my opinion on the witness account. They said that the dude came back in and stated in on the guy again. Sounds to me like this dude was itching for a reason to pull his gun. I don't really care what the victim did here unless he was armed with a deadly weapon and threatened the shooter. Doesn't seem to be any witness statement saying that happened. Even if the victim threw a punch that doesn't rise to deadly force level, especially in a fight the shooter instigated. If it was legal then folks could just go around instigating fights and then shooting a person when they swing first. That's murder.

You will have to point me to where it said that cause I dont see it. I see this.

 

"Their voices start going up, there seems to be a confrontation, somebody throws popcorn, then bang, he was shot," said Cummings

 

That says to me he has no idea what happened.

 

An yes, If me or any other healthy person my age throws a punch at a 71 year old man, that to me is deadly force. I have seen enough to know even healthy men die from one good hit.

[reed1285]

wow. people losing their lives over the silliest, most remedial crap these days. I cant believe the suspect, who had the great history he did, did this. All he wouldve had to done was find the manager, and that dad would still be with his family today. Something just snaps in people sometimes, and they go off the deep end

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

You must be new around here, LOL.

 

The way we do things around here is...we speculate, conjecture, and extrapolate based on the info we have at the time. If that info changes later, we either reload and get back into the fight or dig our heels in and invent fantastic theories to support our original position (see any of the 1/2 dozen Zimmerman-Martin threads).

I jumped to to many conclusions that were dead wrong about the Zimmerman-Martin thing to an am trying to not do that again.

[GlockSpock]

Here is my thought. I have no scientific proof, but this is just what I imagined in my head when I first read the story. Clint Eastwood makes a good Curtis. Profanity withheld at the expense of humor to keep it safe for all. 

 
[quote]

Curtis Reeves decided to go see a movie that day. At age 71, a trip to the movies was usually not worth it. $10 for a ticket and $15 for a drink and popcorn? He could remember the days you could watch a movie for a nickel and get all the free popcorn and Coke you wanted. Too bad he couldn't remember what he had for breakfast the day before, much less the day of.

This was a special occasion though. He being a retired cop felt he was one of the good guys. Hey! Lone Survivor is about a real life Seal, he was a good guy. A good old American. They don't quite make them like that anymore. Now everyone's like that clown Marky Mark from the 90's that run around spewing anti-gun rhetoric yet stars in a movie about a Seal. Hypocrites! Curtis Reeves was an example of a good gun owner. Although he had retired almost 21 years ago, he still carried his trusty S&W J frame. Plastic in guns? Those are toys. Curtis would never own a firearm with an identity crisis such as a Glock. No, he wanted metal. And he wanted American!
 
So after he spent 20 minutes buying his ticket and finding a seat, he figured he would see what other forms of mindless entertainment he was missing. While he was sitting there, he kept getting distracted because the guy a few rows down kept pulling out his cell phone and lighting up the room. Cell phones. Why does everyone need a cell phone anyway? Curtis could remember the day when his family didn't even have a home phone. If you wanted to reach someone, you mailed a letter or walked down the street to see them. What is so important that someone has to be constantly texting about anyway? He had finally found a way to avoid his wife by going to the movie. Why would he want to text her? Finally, he was in a place he could relax for a few hours, and this idiot keeps on texting and lighting up the place like a flashbang in a gangbanger's den. At this point, Curtis had enough. It cost him $25 to get in there, and he sure wasn't going to have some young punk ruin it for it.
 
He got up and looked for a manager. Whatever happened to the ushers that would walk up and down the isles? They would have handled this. After walking around for a few minutes, not seeing a single employee but the nose-ring girl at the concession stand and the few guys selling tickets, he decided that he would handle it himself. He walked over to the guy and asked that he stop using his cell phone when the movie started. The young punk told him to mind his own business. Curtis went on to explain that he was a retired cop and how it was impolite to use a cell phone during a movie. At this time, the young punk said that he didn't care who Curtis was, but to mind his own business or he was going to make him. Curtis figured that, just for once, he would show someone his firearm in order to keep the situation peaceful. He was a retired cop after all, and that strategy worked quite often back in his day. So he did, a simple pull of the jacket and the punk would calm down.
 
He didn't. He threw popcorn onto Curtis and then started shoving him backward. Curtis, afraid for his life because the punk was twice his size but half his age, only knew of one thing to do. He drew and pulled the trigger.

 

//Honestly, I know that isn't the way it happened. However, I wrote that story for a few reasons

 

• Anyone of us could get in that situation very easily. That being the situation where you are simply trying to do what you feel is right in a non-violent manner, but you make what seems to be a few minor mistakes and it ends very, very badly.
• You never know who is packing too and may be having a bad day, may be mentally unstable a bit, etc. Treat everyone with respect. You don't want to be the guy that gets shot because he told someone to mind their own business.

Walk softly and carry a big stick. In my opinion, we must be 1000% more careful than the average Joe. I am not defending Curtis. He was obviously in the wrong with probably 99% certainty. We won't hear the other guy's story and I doubt anyone else picked up exactly what truly happened. But someone lost a life that day. Someone lost a Father. Someone else probably lost their freedom that day. Didn't even get to see Lone Survivor.

 

Tread lightly until given a reason not to.

[TMF]

You will have to point me to where it said that cause I dont see it. I see this.

That says to me he has no idea what happened.

An yes, If me or any other healthy person my age throws a punch at a 71 year old man, that to me is deadly force. I have seen enough to know even healthy men die from one good hit.

Here a witness who was so close to the victim that the victim fell on him. If the man is still at his seat how can he be thought to be the one that escalated anything? If someone approaches to where I'm sitting an argues with me then he is escalating the situation. In fact, it sounds to me like the victim may have been justified in using physical force as he was likely trapped by the aggressor here and threatened.

And no, a punch doesn't automatically count as "deadly force" simply because someone died from a punch before. That does not give any person the justifiable right to shoot someone.

A witness recalled seeing the agitated man -- later identified by deputies as Curtis Reeves -- get up and leave in an apparent attempt to find a manager. When he came back alone, the argument escalated.

Charles Cummings told FOX 13 he heard the victim say he was texting his 3-year-old daughter before Reeves pulled out a pistol.
"Their voices start going up, there seems to be a confrontation, somebody throws popcorn, then bang, he was shot," said Cummings, who was there to celebrate his birthday. "I heard the victim say, 'I can't believe...,' then he fell on us."

Edited January 14, 2014 by TMF

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Here a witness who was so close to the victim that the victim fell on him. If the man is still at his seat how can he be thought to be the one that escalated anything? If someone approaches to where I'm sitting an argues with me then he is escalating the situation. In fact, it sounds to me like the victim may have been justified in using physical force as he was likely trapped by the aggressor here and threatened.

And no, a punch doesn't automatically count as "deadly force" simply because someone died from a punch before. That does not give any person the justifiable right to shoot someone.

 

Where did you get this part? I have not seen anywhere where anyone said who was where, who was siting or standing or who started the second altercation?

 

An do you think any Judge or Jury would describe a 71 year old being hit by someone half his age as not being reasonable to assume deadly force? Real life is not the movies. Adults do not just hit each other till one falls an walk away. If a stranger is willing to hit you you better assume they mean to kill you.

[E4 No More]

Where did you get this part? I have not seen anywhere where anyone said who was where, who was siting or standing or who started the second altercation?

 

An do you think any Judge or Jury would describe a 71 year old being hit by someone half his age as not being reasonable to assume deadly force? Real life is not the movies. Adults do not just hit each other till one falls an walk away. If a stranger is willing to hit you you better assume they mean to kill you.

The report read that the victim fell on the witness. I'd say that's close enough.

Edited January 14, 2014 by SWJewellTN

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Close enough for what? He never says who does what. He doesn't even know who threw the popcorn.

[E4 No More]

Close enough for what? He never says who does what. He doesn't even know who threw the popcorn.

Humm, victim gets out half a sentence before falling on witness gurgling blood. How far do you think that might be? What's the popcorn got to do with it? I can think of several reason why the witness didn't see who threw the popcorn, not the least of which is it doesn't require a baseball windup to throw popcorn.

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Go watch the raw video of the interview. He says that the men were 2 seats over an siting one behind the other. The one that was shot stood up an turned around then something happened involving popcorn that he did not see an then a gunshot.

 

I dont know what happened but the witness does not ether. He thought it was over till right before the guy got up an turned around.

 

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/24435641/2014/01/13/shots-fired-at-wesley-chapel-movie-theater?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9724454&autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9724454

Edited January 14, 2014 by RebelCowboySnB

[Caster]

Uh, no we haven't. Or I haven't at least. Lethal force is a last resort. I don't fantasize about using it on people.

Well, maybe I'm the only one on TGO who, given a consequence free environment, would like to see the world helped out a bit by putting a skim net and some chlorine to the ole gene pool. God knows we need it. Lol! Edited January 14, 2014 by Caster

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Here is the press conference video. Sheriff says second altercation is started by the person that was shot an he was shot after getting up, turning around, an getting physical.

http://www.waff.com/story/24435699/2-shot-at-wesley-chapel-theater?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9726092

 

 

Still a bad deal all around but not some guy that picked a fight just to get to shoot someone.

[teecro]

wow. people losing their lives over the silliest, most remedial crap these days. I cant believe the suspect, who had the great history he did, did this. All he wouldve had to done was find the manager, and that dad would still be with his family today. Something just snaps in people sometimes, and they go off the deep end

 

Sometimes it can be caused by meds being taken or some mental dementia can turn people mean and/or confrontational...

[TMF]

Where did you get this part? I have not seen anywhere where anyone said who was where, who was siting or standing or who started the second altercation?

An do you think any Judge or Jury would describe a 71 year old being hit by someone half his age as not being reasonable to assume deadly force? Real life is not the movies. Adults do not just hit each other till one falls an walk away. If a stranger is willing to hit you you better assume they mean to kill you.

For crying out loud are you capable of critical thinking? The victim fell on the guy he was sitting next to. Read the whole story. The witness was sitting next to this guy. I can tell you that if I'm cornered by a man of any age who is acting in a threatening manner I won't hesitate to get physical if there is an obvious imminence of hostility. If you can't read the witness statement here and get a general idea of what happened then I can't help you. It's all there. This old guy instigated an altercation while carrying a gun and shot an unarmed man. You don't get into fights knowing that you're gonna end it with your firearm. I don't care what your age is. Edited January 14, 2014 by TMF

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Here is video of the bond hearing... Not all is there but bond was denied.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/wesley-chapel-movie-theater-shooting-suspected-gunman-curtis-reeves-jr-makes-first-appearance

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

For crying out loud are you capable of critical thinking? The victim fell on the guy he was sitting next to. Read the whole story. The witness was sitting next to this guy. I can tell you that if I'm cornered by a man of any age who is acting in a threatening manner I won't hesitate to get physical if there is an obvious imminence of hostility. If you can't read the witness statement here and get a general idea of what happened then I can't help you. It's all there. This old guy instigated an altercation while carrying a gun and shot an unarmed man. You don't get into fights knowing that you're gonna end it with your firearm. I don't care what your age is.

Actually I watched the videos. Witness says he did not see what happened. Sheriff, shooter, an lawyers all say the man that was shot started the altercation then turned around an became fiscal with the 71 year old man on oxygen.

[GlockSpock]

[quote name="RebelCowboySnB" post="1095055" timestamp="1389739780"]Actually I watched the videos. Witness says he did not see what happened. Sheriff, shooter, an lawyers all say the man that was shot started the altercation then turned around an became fiscal with the 71 year old man on oxygen.[/quote] At least he was responsible with money. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk