The Rabbi

I'd like to see some LE seize and search someone determined to be harmless because "drug smugglers use people like that." Its an absurd argument. A judge would laugh that out of court in 2 seconds. If it ever got that far.

Millions of people drive large vehicles. Our mutual friend in the explosives business drives a large vehicle. The type of vehicle driven is not probable cause for a stop. Second, you are comparing stops in TN to check drivers' licenses (a legitimate exercise) with this BP stop to determine citizenship. They are not the same. A driver's license is a privilege, citizenship is not. Your last statement is incomprehensible: once LE has determined someone is harmless, that is the time to subject him to a seizure? No, in that case no reason whatsoever exists to stop him and any subsequent stop will be illegal.

There was no reasonable suspicion/probably cause. That's the crux of the matter for me. I suspect what rankles you more is this: Yes, he had no respect for an illegitimate authority making illegal seizures. I wouldn't myself. If it had been legitimate they would have stopped him. They didn't. They were 50 miles inside the U.S. That isn't border patrol anymore. It was not a permanent stopping place. That makes a difference. As for the drug patrols along I40, I assume they are acting pursuant to tip-offs and other information, not randomly stopping people who look a little funny.

Bovine scatology. It was not a legal roadblock. It was conducted by Border Patrol, not state highway patrol. They were not looking for drivers' licenses or for drunk driving. There was no probable cause (it isnt a crime to drive on a highway). They were asking for information which they were not legally entitled to ask for. That's why the officer really had no answer. The citizen did exactly the right thing. Fighting crime does not come at the expense of civil liberties. Had I been the motorist and you the officer I would have asked whether I was being detained. With no answer I would have continued on my way. had you escalated it you would face charges.

Alexandria exit off I40E, halfway between Lebanon and Carthage.

He was over the top to make a point, granted. But how many people here would just see this as necessary or minor? This has been my point often with illegal immigration debates. We could stop illegals in a heartbeat. But it would mean issuing each citizen, you and me, a biometric ID with GPS attached and give police the authority to stop and search and ask for papers of anyone they wanted. And I dont think we really want to see that.

Ya know. If we could harness all this talent to promoting RKBA in this state Naifeh wouldn't stand a chance.

He says in the comments, it's 50 miles north of the border. If they can stop and check people there, why not in downtown LA? Why not here in Nashville? Random stops and "papers please". Yes, it is easier and more polite to submit. I am sure passengers on the bus Rosa Parks was on wished she would just move to the back. I am sure people trying to get through downtown Peking were ticked that Tiannamen Square protestors were blocking traffic. BUt you dont get to have a just society built on civil rights and respect for the citizen that way.

Thanks guy. Sorry you had to wait. And I can really see you at the range with baggies, grillz, and a Tec9 in your hand chilling with yr homies.

The point is the officer had no right to ask the question, the citizen was under no obligation to answer. He was perfectly within his rights. He did not have to submit to petty harassment (and that is what it is) and intimidation. I remember this came up in John Harris' presentation. Someone in the audience said she had been stopped and asked do you have weapons in the car. What should she say. John's advice was, you dont have to say anything at all.

Exactly the point. It is easier just to submit to authority. It is hard to stand up for one's rights. This is how dictators get control.

And the officer would be facing disciplinary hearings. WHich is how it should be. Notice how the guy is in control of the situation from the start, not the BP officer. I know that wouldnt sit well with LEs.

I like CO Jones' improvement even more. Like that sheet be kleen, you hear me ppl??

I love all of you with all my heart. Even Punisher. Thanks, Mods. Good decision. This is a great board with great people on it.

No, he was fine. What's an ass is an illegal check point asking questions that they have no constitutional right to ask. While I doubt that kind of behavior is going to elicit much sympathy from a cop there is no reason for a private citizen to submit to illegal detentions, searches, and seizures. And yet it happens every day.

You're probably right. I've suspected that at least one denial on a purchase was from some unpaid fine or other. It doesnt seem quite right to deny a constitutional right to someone over a parking ticket.

In .45 I take the cheapest most available I can. Currently that's Golden Saber. If all I had was ball I'd take that. In .357mag I like the heavier bullets, the 125gr kick too much for me. They are supposed to work better than the 158gr but screw it. I'll take shootable over any ballistic testing. Given that shot placement is far more important than bullet style or velocity I really don't worry too much about it. If I am comfortable with the load I will carry it. I like the 158LHP +P .38spc mainly because there is lots of field experience with it. But currently that isnt what I have in my .38spc.

Rollin' down the street smoking Indo, sipping on gin and juice, With my mind on my money and my money on my mind. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCAM3C3dpIA[/ame]

I'm going with my new butt-boi pistol. Let's see how it/I do under pressure. I'll bet I forget to click the safety at least once.

I have lusted after one for a while. It is a proprietary cartridge for Dan Wesson. I dont know why it didnt catch on. Yes, you can shoot .44mag and spc in it. It reaches its use in silhouette matches, esp in the really long barrel versions. Obviously a hunting cartridge as well.

I think so. I fixed it for ya too. Folks, these guns are icons, like a Walther PPK or a Smith 29. They havent been made in years and they'll likely get banned next time around. Here's your chance to get a clean, legal, Tec9 for under $300.

I try to keep it legal in the shop. Try. Justaguy, that was hysterical. What a great photoshop job. I sent it to my brother. The cross was a nice touch....

Customer of the day, just after 6. Comes in. I'm looking for some .38 shells for self protection. OK, I pull out the Hornady 158gr JXP, a pretty good load. While there I hold up the new Tec9 in stock (see other thread) and say, you know anyone looking for a Tec9 I've got one. They haven't been made in years. He says, not anyone can buy that, right? No, you can buy them. (thinking he thinks it's a restricted Class3 or something) Well, I can't. I got a felony. But my girlfriend can, right? Geez. What is wrong with people? So not only is he not buying a Tec9, he isn't buying any ammo either. Fitting end to the day.

You can get 20 bottles of Olde English Malt Liquor for the price of one fifth of Old Van Winkle Rye. I'd still take the Rye.

This is the Tec 9 from Intratec, 9mm semi-auto pistol. The gun was purchased just ahead of the last ban, either new or almost new. It was never fired. Gun is very clean. Comes with box and 1 30-rd magazine. A real conversation piece. $285+t/t.