Cruel Hand Luke

OOps...OK, I see what you are saying now (I think). Because the overall length of the 14" with the brace made it 26". BUt even if it is under 26 a 12ga cannot be a "pistol". 

Right...a "shotgun" cannot be a "pistol"...and why the Black Aces "shotgun pistol" thing is not kosher. Pistol gripped shotguns under 18" are AOWs...not "pistols".  The only way that the .410 Judge is legal is it is rifled and under .50 cal. 

Can somebody point me to the TCA statutes regarding this?    You can carry loaded long guns in vehicle with HCP....but you can't legally "carry them on your person" outside the vehicle? That would make the whole using it to defend yourself a sticky thing if you had to set foot outside the vehicle unless the defending yourself is an exception for the "no carry on your person"......seriously, anyone know where to find that in TN Code?     As someone mentioned before, the AR pistol (or SIg or AK or what have you) fills a niche (compact/easily packed rifle caliber gun for travel out of state) that does not require a 5320.20 form to be filed on your SBR......you can take it anywhere you can legally take a "pistol" since that is what it is....   HOW you use it does not effect how it was INTENDED to be used by the manufacturer. You can use a serrated steak knife as a saw to cut lumber....even if it was not intended to be used that way. A shotgun can be fired from the hip....not really how it was intended but that does not make it an AOW. A pistol can be gripped by the grip AND by a rail mounted light ....(even though that is ridiculous and not how it was intended to be used) and that does not make it an AOW.From reading the letters  I have a feeling we are dealing more with the "intent" of the "manufacturer" (be that a company or an individual) as to what they are assembling. HOW the end user operates is another story...   And as an aside note...the guy wanting to build the 14" shotgun with the brace....IIRC you cannot build pistols over 50 caliber so a .72 cal pistol is either a Destructive Device (and why Taurus had their 28ga pistols confiscated at SHOT) or it is an AOW , OR it is an SBS if it has a stock attached. You cannot legally build 12 gauge "pistols" no matter whether they have a brace or not. 

I normally run 2 or 3 rifle classes here per year. Normally a basic an intermediate and an advanced spread out through the year. 

One month to go!

Couple of points....   I had a girlfriend back in the day who was involved in a pretty horrendous car wreck when she was 17. Car flipped and she was ejected. Broke her pelvis in 3 places yet she was able to crawl almost 100 yards back to the highway to flag down help.....Sorry but I'm just not a believer in "pelvic shots are sure stoppers".    My great grandfather was involved in a gunfight in Carbondale Alabama (Mining town north of Birmingham) in 1920...actually it was a rolling series of gunfights....The whole thing stemmed from an argument during a mining strike . He was shot first, but hit peripherally...my great grandfather was tough dude who had been a miner and had served in the Spanish American war in Cuba where he had been wounded so he knew already what being shot felt like. He was not terribly impressed with being shot with a pistol so he pulled his and the other guy was hit multiple times and was dead right there....   After that ANOTHER guy shot him with a rifle. The rifleman jumped behind a tree for cover. Great Granddad yelled for him to "come out and fight fair"...at which point the guy stepped out from behind the tree and great granddad emptied his 1911 into him and pounced on him yelling "you killed me now I'm gonna kill you" (apparently the rifle wound really hurt) and proceeded to cave in his skull with the now empty pistol......after that he got up and ran off with several shotgun wielding assailants in hot pursuit.....they opened up on him with the shotguns and after being hit multiple times he "surrendered". He lived 26 more hours until the wounds got septic and he died of what they referred to as "lead poisoning". During that 26 hour time he was conscious and aware and was able to relate what had happened to the doctors and that is how the story was related in the newspaper... the peripheral pistol shots he received had little effect, the rifle shot was painful but not vital, but the multiple shotgun hits...those got his attention.   So I'm not a big believer in "stopping power" in pistols, not a big believer in pelvic shots or...."seemingly random bullet placement". People shot  multiple times in the "nipple to neck thoracic zone" tend to stop what they are doing and go to sleep. People shot elsewhere...it is a crap shoot and some people will fight on even after receiving painful injuries.....but as with everything YMMV.

Reminder! This one is coming up in a little over a month! 

One week to go!

I prefer to avoid having to shoot people.....it gets rather expensive.... ;)

Just around the corner..........2 weeks to go!

We offer one...if there is enough interest....

Yeah, the J frame is not the ideal gun for the "occasional shooter". It really is as some other instructors have put it...an "expert's gun". Think about it. You have a 1 pound gun with a 12 to 15 pound trigger pull and a tiny little sight radius and often tiny little "nubs" for sights that make military issue 1911s look like target sights.   I feel pretty confident with my glock of scoring thoracic zone hits at 35 to 50 yards....but with the J Frame I would not feel comfy with it past 15 to 20 yards if there was a real "life altering penalty" for misses.   Having said that, yes I know you can cock the hammer for farther shots...IF your gun has an external hammer. Mine are all the "centennial" models and as such are hammerless and Double Action Only. So I have no choice but to focus intently on pressing a 15 lb trigger as smoothly as I can. Not ideal for "across the parking lot " kind of work.      After the Colorado movie theater shooting everyone was talking about how they'd have hauled out their gun and stopped it. Maybe....but only if they carried a gun that they could realistically score hits with across the theater without also hitting other innocent victims. Basically I view the j frame like I do a derringer...a very close range limited capacity self defense weapon with few options for solving more complex problems. ANd if that is what you are going to carry you need to MASTER that 12-15 lb trigger pull because it is far easier to jerk that trigger enough to misalign a 2 inch barrel enough to miss than it is to do the same with a 5Lb (or less ) trigger on a bigger gun with longer sight radius. 

The .40 is a high pressure cartridge to begin with. Glock KBs are due to over pressure. These are caused by either....   1. Weak brass that blows out at the 6 o'clock position where chamber is unsupported. It could either be brass reloaded too many times or a specific lot of brittle brass.    2. Bullet setback increasing the pressure to above safe levels. Most common with 180 grain bullets. This why we don't rechamber the same round over and over again.   3. Continuous use of soft lead bullets with no cleaning. Barrel leading leads to higher pressure as the .40 bullet is trying to exit a .39 caliber hole.   4. filthy chamber (generally from lead bullets) not allowing round to go all the way into battery , but far enough to still fire.    5. Double charging the case during reloading. 

Believe it or not based on my previous post, I think it is GOOD actually that there is such a proliferation of small guns available because if nothing else, some people who previously would have not carried ANYTHING at all are at least carrying something. And something is always better than nothing. 

Math never takes the day off. A J Frame is 5 rounds....period. Not much margin for error there especially if you have more than one assailant. Fortunately most people will never have to pull a gun to defend themself........just like most people will never be in a serious car accident. But for those that are....they are generally glad they had a seatbelt on.   If you are positive that you will only ever be confronted with non committed bad guys who are more afraid of you than you are of them, and that they will all be loners who act alone, then a J frame will probably be fine. But when we start adding layers of difficulty (and levels of 21st century reality of street robbery) suddenly the bad guys are not the tweeker who will run at the first sign of resistance but more experienced street criminals who live a life of violence,the reality that pistols are poor stoppers and often take multiple hits to stop committed opponnents (look at the Michael Brown shooting....that took 6 or 7 to stop him)  and more than not there will be at least 1 more accomplice involved whether you see them initially or not....then add in the possibility of being somewhere when an active shooter decides to kick off a CNN level event and the REALITY that ISIS is planning similar type events for America like the Westgate Mall incident in Africa and suddenly that J Frame gets less and less appealing.   Having said that....if you feel a J Frame is all you need then rock on....and hope 5 is enough. A J Frame is certainly better than a sharp stick or a stearn word. But it is far from optimal. Just know the down sides and be prepared and have a plan to work around them.

And Charlie Beckwith (the guy who founded Delta - the unit not the airline-) was hit with a 12.7mm round (the Russian .50 cal) in vietnam and survived....so what?   Exactly WHERE did  the NY bullet sponge get hit? And was the head wound a penetrating wound or a superficial glancing shot?   Sorry, but I'm gonna side with Davison who worked counter terror in Northern Ireland vs the IRA (and the SAS and SBS shot a lot of Irishmen) vs an anecdotal story of some guy somewhere sometime who was shot somewhere with 9mm who did not die. Especially when that is EXACTLY what the SEAL contingent that "testified" at the FBI wound ballistics workshop in 87 said . They gave a "classified " briefing which pretty much said 9mm killed people dead when you hit them somewhere important.   Peripheral hits don't do any good with any caliber. And I'm going to guess that the NY guy took a lot of hits in NON VITAL places.  But holes in hearts , spines and brains are just that....HOLES in hearts spines and brains no matter what puts them there. And holes in hearts , spines and brains tends to make people lay down and die right now.  Placement is far and away more important than bullet diameter given an adequate amount of penetration to hit vital structures. Next most important is punching multiple holes and disassembling those internal organs. Physics is physics and scientifically measurable data is just that...scientifically measurable.... and the difference in energy is MINUSCULE between .45 and 9 and the difference in size of hole is minuscule.    As to anecdotal stories.....In the book "A Wayward Angel the Full Story of the Hells Angels" one of them was shot multiple times with .45, survived and actually got a tattoo that said ".45s aint sh!t ,17 holes , 4 creases"..... so ANYTHING can fail spectacularly if the shooter can't place the holes into important structures......

As Bill Davison (Former British Royal Marine and CT Instructor with lots of time in Northern Ireleand) "I have never seen someone not die because they got shot with a 9 mil; they all died immediately and I'm really pleased with the cartridge," ......   Article can be found here....http://www.tacproshootingcenter.com/GunWeek.html

REMINDER!!!    This is just about 3 weeks away! 

Obviously it goes without saying to take all the usual safety precautions....   Having said that your dry fire drills can be just about anything you want them to be. If simply improving your shooting skills is what you are looking for then there are a couple of books by Ben Stoeger that have simple drills (draw and 4 to body, reload, 2 to head or turn and draw and shoot  2 to head on 3 different targets, etc). A simple , more "street realistic" drill might be draw and fire 2 to body move to cover and fire 2 to head, scan and proactive reload. Or if you don't have much room to move do it standing in a doorway and simply draw, side step to use the doorway as cover, fire 3 or 4 and do a proactive reload. Your only limits are your imagination!

GTG and Prag, sorry guys....I'll make sure I get input from you on the date for the next one....

I'm not your typical student, but I do still attend classes taught by other instructors regularly so I might have some insight that will help.    Get prepared for class a few days in advance. No one wants to be looking for their mag pouches the morning of the class. Get all your stuff together so that is one less thing to worry with. Pack all your gear and make a checklist. And use the checklist. You don't want to be "the guy who gets to class with no spare mags because they are on the bedside table where he left them" guy.    WEAR A BELT. That should go without saying but I've actually had a person show up to a pistol class where we were they knew we'd be drawing from a holster show up with no belt......and wondered why their paddle holster kept coming out of their pants with the gun when they drew it....    Take a spare gun and more ammo than you think you'll need. This is especially so if you are running an "oddball" caliber that no one else in class is likely to have. If you are running 357sig, 45gap, 9mm Makarov, 9x21, 9x23 or 5.7x28 no one else is gonna have ammo for your gun so bring extra.    Take a notepad and TAKE NOTES. Many times there will be so much info you simply will not remember it all later and most classes do not hand out workbooks or an outline or "take notes for you". So a pen and notepad is a wise investment.    Make sure you have weather appropriate clothing. Being "environmentally miserable " is not a good learning environment. And don't wear flip flops...again, should go without saying but you'd be surprised.    If the class is going to be physical ( a lot of getting up and down or running) and that is not something you are used to then it is a good idea to do something to get in batter shape before the week of class. At a minimum doing some stretching and walking a mile or two each day several months in advance will help. The less strain it is to do the drills the better experience it will be. But there are very few classes you will ever attend that you need to be in pro athlete condition. If you have questions about a class and whether you are in good enough shape to participate you should always ask the instructor in advance.    Bring plenty of H2O...and DRINK IT. Staying hydrated is important. But most people do not drink enough to stay optimally hydrated. In fact, most people walk around in a state of near dehydration in everyday life. You do not want to be "the guy who passed out from dehydration" in class. If you wait until you are thirsty then you are not drinking enough.    Reading.....if you have 20 years I can recommend some books......Just kidding. If the instructor has written a book it is a good idea to be familiar with it. If nothing else I would recommend Principles of Personal Defense by Jeff Cooper. It is a short book on mindset that everyone should read.    Not knowing anything about your present skill level or what specific class you are looking to take, some general advice would be do dry fire regularly in the weeks leading up to class. Work on drawstroke, mag changes, malfunction clearance.....all the stuff you should be working on regularly in dry fire...   And most importantly keep an open mind. Not everyone teaches everything the exact same way. There is nothing wrong with that but a good instructor should be able to tell you EXACTLY WHY they teach something a particular way if it is substantially different than what others do. If they say "just because" then that should be a huge red flag.    How to pick an instructor? Reputation goes a long way. Read reviews of the instructor and ideally talk to people who have been to their classes. Keep in mind also that not all personalities mesh. I have talked to people that were put off by a particular instructor who I happen to think is excellent ...if a bit gruff. Those people and that particular instructor were just not a good mix of personalities. But on a personal level I am more concerned with the knowledge an instructor can help me discover than whether the instructor will pacify my "inner child" or make me "feel better  about myself."     Someone can be a "nice guy" and not be a knowledgeable instructor and someone can be a "been there done that" guy and be a bad communicator and poor teacher. There is more to teaching than being able to do something and more to running an adult learning environment than showing up and letting the students bask in your past glory (unless that is specifically why people come to your class) .... so do your homework in advance and look for an instructor that is good at teaching what YOU are looking to learn. A navy SEAL may be a bitchin' cool guy but odds are he does not do much concealed carry pistol work. And a guy who spends 99% of his time teaching NRA basic classes is not going to be the first guy on the list to teach combatives and close quarters shooting.

RGF-3: ADVANCED RIFLE GUNFIGHTING March 7-8, 2015 Dayton, Tennessee Price $350 Instructor: Randy Harris   Advanced Rifle Gunfighting is the most advanced level rifle training available outside of Special Operations schools. This class will consist of all new material and take your rifle fighting skills, both as a firearm and as an alternative force tool, far beyond what you would think possible. Not for beginners. Students must own the basic combat rifle skill-set and be in reasonable physical condition for this class. If in doubt, attend the introductory class scheduled immediately before. This class will leave you gasping for air with a red-hot smoking rifle barrel.   DURATION: 2 Days   TIME: 8:30AM to 4:30PM   AMMUNITION: RIFLE: Approx. 500 rounds (Minimum) PISTOL: Approx. 100 rounds (Minimum)   YOU NEED TO BRING: Spare clothing appropriate to the weather. Lunch, snacks and water (minimum of 1 gallon per person) for the entire day. Baseball or other style hat, sun screen, bug repellent, allergy medication (if needed), chair (if you have a problem with sitting on the ground, note taking paper/pen/pencil and a boo boo kit (band aids, gauze pads, antiseptic wipes, antibiotic ointment and tape).     REQUIREMENTS: A military pattern rifle, (3) magazines and any ancillary rifle gear. Pistol, holster, pistol magazines, eye and ear protection. Note: Chest Rig/Tactical Vests are not allowed with CCW Holsters. If you wish to use a Chest Rig or a Tactical Vest, use a vest mounted holster or a thigh holster.   NOTES: Located in Dayton, Tennessee, just off of Highway 27. We are 3.2 miles north of Dayton... just a short ride from Chattanooga or Cleveland.   To Register...http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/150307-advanced-rifle-gunfighting-dayton-tn.aspx#.VGNnavnF8as   Range information, directions, local hotels, and contact information will be Emailed after purchase, contact the office if you haven't received information for your class.

CLOSE RANGE GUNFIGHTING February 7-8, 2015 Chattanooga, Tennessee Price: $350 Instructor: Randy Harris   This is our flagship course and goes as far as you can safely go on a square range with live-fire pistols. The dynamic curriculum surpasses the traditional handgun methods commonly taught in most institutions and focuses of the use of the pistol in aggressive close range applications likely in individual civilian street encounters. The class begins with a tune-up of the fundamentals, then we progress quickly to new skills such as Proactive and Reactive Manipulations, Shooting While Moving Off The X, Reality-Based Multiple Hostiles Engagement, 360 degree CQB Movement, Danger-Close Fighting, Bilateral Shooting, 360 degree After Action Assessment Methods, and Integrating the Flashlight and Other Tools into the Firing Platform. This is the life-saving material that is often ignored in many other programs. In two days, you will receive more information than most armed professionals ever get!   We must point out that THIS COURSE IS NOT FOR THE NOVICE SHOOTER. If you have not received basic instruction, or have a question about your skill level, please call us first.   DURATION: 2 days   TIME: 9:00AM to 5:00PM Central   AMMUNITION: Approximately 500 rounds (Minimum)   YOU NEED TO BRING: Spare clothing appropriate to the weather. Lunch, snacks and water (minimum of 1 gallon per person) for the entire day. Baseball or other style hat, sun screen, bug repellent, allergy medication (if needed), chair (if you have a problem with sitting on the ground, note taking paper/pen/pencil and a boo boo kit (band aids, gauze pads, antiseptic wipes, antibiotic ointment and tape).   REQUIREMENTS: Modern defensive pistol and a holster specifically made for that pistol and designed to be worn on the belt. Three (3) magazines and magazine pouch, a belt of the same width as the belt loops for the holster and magazine pouches, and range safety gear (eye protection, and ear protection).   NOTES: Range is private range located where TN, GA and AL all come together on the map 35 minutes from downtown Chattanooga. Range is on CENTRAL time.     To register .....http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/150207-close-range-gunfighting-chattanooga-tn.aspx#.VGNmOPnF8as

KALASHNIKOV RIFLE GUNFIGHTING January 24-25, 2015 Chattanooga, Tennessee Price: $350 INSTRUCTOR: Randy Harris     The AK-47/74 series of rifle is one of the most prolific and useful weapons on earth. Close to 100 million have been made in various parts of the world and anyone's chances of encountering these weapons is high. This special course will take a close look at the Kalashnikov Rifle System and teach you to fight with it in both the standard "urban rifle" engagement as well as in the Close Range Gunfighting matrix. This material will have you appreciating the AK platform like no other rifle. It is too simple to be "tactical".   DURATION 2 days. 9:00AM to 5:00PM Central   AMMUNITION 500 Rounds rifle. 50 Rounds pistol.   EQUIPMENT Spare clothing appropriate to the weather, lunch/snacks and water (minimum of 1 gallon per person) for the entire day, baseball or other style hat, sun screen, bug repellent, allergy medication (if needed), chair (if you have a problem with sitting on the ground, note taking paper/pen/pencil and a boo boo kit (band aids, gauze pads, antiseptic wipes, antibiotic ointment and tape)   REQUIREMENTS AK-47 type rifle, (3) magazines and any ancillary rifle gear. Pistol, Holster, Pistol Magazines. Eye and Ear Protection. NOTE: Chest Rig/Tactical Vests are not allowed with CCW Holsters. If you wish to use a Chest Rig or a Tactical Vest, use a vest mounted holster or a thigh holster.   NOTES: Range is private range located where TN, GA and AL all come together on the map 35 minutes from downtown Chattanooga. Range is on CENTRAL time.       For more info and to register....http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/150124-kalashnikov-rifle-gunfighting-chattanooga-tn.aspx#.VGNkKvnF8as   Range information, directions, local hotels, and contact information will be Emailed after purchase, contact the office if you haven't received information for your class.