Paisan

11.5" AR

Does that mean someone puts a SCOPE on a LEVERGUN?!!? Say it ain't so...

I'm glad you all enjoyed the review. To respond to some of the questions / comments:     Sorry, haven't taken pics, and don't know how to post. Autumn is a busy time for me. My sample looks like the best of the pictures you will see posted. Very attractive for a "commie gun".   "Comfortable" is not the right word for the stock, but it's not uncomfortable, either. Handy as heck, though. I wouldn't dream of swapping it out for a fixed stock. When folded, it's shorter than my 11.5 AR pistol, which allows it to fit neatly into a tennis racket case. As CM1021 said, I will be paracord wrapping mine soon.   Differences from a VZ58 are new, American made receiver, new Green Mountain barrel (also US manufacture), full 16" threaded barrel. May be more - I'm kinda new to this platform.   I have it on very good authority from an Industry Professional on M4C that Century has contracted out the assembly of post-2011 VZ2008s. He is of the opinion that this is why later models have better track records.   My sample left the factory in May 2014 according to the label on the trigger guard. All text on the receiver is on the left side.   150 more rounds fired without cleaning since the initial 440. These were mixed Tula, Wolf MC, and Wolf Poly, 100% function with all, including mixed mags. Not really surprising as there's hardly any real difference in the 3.   Parts and accessories are readily available at Czeckpoint and Zahal, among others.   I agree with Djay3, 7.62 X 39 is underrated and accuracy is more than adequate for a short to mid-range fighting carbine.

I wondered the same thing about my OCD (I have to mount lights at 12 or 6 o'clock for symmetry). I bought a Bravo Co. upper and put it on a Noveske stripped lower built with a Daniel Defense parts kit. No problem!

I let my last AK (I know, I know) get away from me over 10 years ago, and never regretted the decision to go all AR pattern, all the time. A few weeks ago, I noticed a deal at Palmetto State Armory offering a VZ2008 with 5 mags, mag pouch, bayonet/sheath, sling and cleaning kit for $399.00. How could I go wrong? Well, according to any number of interweb commandos, I could go very wrong indeed. The list was long - glacial service from PSA, canted front sight bases, mutant FCGs that would be unreliable, corroded barrels, handguard temps approaching that of the surface of the sun, a couple of well-documented "gremlins" resulting in dead triggers, folding stocks that required sandblasting and the hammer of Thor to release, virulent strains of ebola virus impregnated in the beaver barf stock...OK, just kidding about that last one, but you get the idea. The phrase "the monkeys at Century Arms" was repeated often.   Well, I am happy to report a very, very, satisfying buying experience. First, PSA took exactly 4 business days to ship my rifle. When I opened the box at my FFL's place, I found a rifle in immaculate condition. 3 of the 5 mags were new and unused, 2 were only slightly used. Bayonet/sheath was new, sling was all leather and entirely serviceable with some scuffs. The mag pouch was as nice a piece of leather as has ever come out of an Eastern bloc nation. Thick, supple leather you could sew a strap on and sell to some hipster for serious ammo money. The folding stock was stiff, but a shot of Breakfree and some ooomph had it working in a couple of minutes. I took it home quite pleased with myself. But how would it shoot?   After a bit of a shocker finding reasonably priced 7.62 x 39 (have I made a mistake?), I cleaned and lubed the VZ and headed for the rifle club. I put up an enormous "Vote For XXXX" sign at 50 yards, in case I had one of the dreaded canted front sight rifles. With any of my ARs, I could hit this sign from NE Alabama on a clear day. I then plopped myslef down behind my range bag and fired 5 shots. The trigger was kinda long, kinda heavy, but smooth. It allowed good shooting if I did my part. Downrange, I discovered a tidy group about 2.5" with 3 round sinto almost exactly 1 inch! In my experience, few rifles have iron sights this well regulated from the factory. I was thrilled. Remember, this is a $399.00 rifle shooting Tula. a rifle that, by all accounts, should have spontaneously combusted somewhere between the factory and my FFL.   Over 2 nights of enthusiastic shooting, I have put 440 rounds of Tula through my new acquisition. Function has been 100% with no cleaning or lubrication. The sights are rough for my 50+ year-old eyes and the trigger is nothing to write home about, BUT they are perfectly functional and good enough to allow some pretty precise shooting. Rapid mag dumps are nothing, though the handguards do get pretty warm.   I bought this VZ because:   A. It was cheap B. The Hildabeast will not want me to have it a couple years from now. 3. I can throw it in my trunk and not bury my head in my hands and weep openly if it were stolen - as I would if it were my Noveske, my DD, my BCM, my Colt, or my M&Ps.   I'm keeping it because its a damn good firearm, and it will never be worth less than what I paid for it.   Get one while the gettin's good.

  Yup - and will be again. UPS advises mine is en route! 

Colt 6720s at palmetto state armory for $799.00. $816.99 shipped and no tax. Best.deal.ever !

Don't give up peripheral vision / situational awareness by closing your support side eye or using tape. Try squinting that eye - but keeping it open - until you get the same effect as closing it. Then work on squinting less and less until your GTG with both eyes open.

I agree with what ChancesR and others are saying, but would add another option: NRA Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor certification. This is night and day from the other NRA certs. Week long courses with a high, objective standard for graduation. You do not have to be a LEO, though some locations may require it. You can always find the class you want somewhere in the SE.

Yup. Shriveled, mushy apples and bright, succulent oranges!   I get the collector / nostalgia thing - I've got an old Sporter myself.

I just ordered a new Colt 6720 from PSA for $799.00

As others have said, it's BAD in Chattanooga. I haven't sweat it much, as I had what I used to think was all the .22 I'd ever need. Now I watch the supply dwindle and...   Also, since everyone is having this shared experience -, and figuring in likely future scenarios like Hillary announcing (winning?), a few more high-profile mass shootings and the antigun legislation that will be floated - I think it will likely get worse.   Right now, we're doing this to ourselves.

broox (and others), these are great training events - if sometimes a bit humbling. I guarantee you'll want to take a class if you come to one the training days!

  sigmtnman, did you actually read my post, or just grab a quote without regard to context? The entire sentence was: ".Because the 1911 market has dried up, and M&Ps require lots of expert customization, tuning, and after-market support (Apex Tactical offerings aside)?"   It was a question, asked ironically, as in "Yeah, Hilton moved away from 1911s because of the huge decline in their popularity? I mean, only every freakin' gun company in existence offers 3 or 40 models of 1911s these days. Therein lies the irony.

  Get a grip there, Sparky. Very little of what you had to say was based on anything I said in my post. I'm certainly no hater. As I said - I said I love 1911s.But I feel handguns are defensive fighting tools first, and a G19 or M&P, or similar is a better carry gun for any number of commonly listed reasons.   I doubt Hilton will retire to Aruba on those 6 pistols per year, but that aside, top trainers can carry whatever they want - and most of them are carrying polymer pistols.   Paisan out.

  ...Because the 1911 market has dried up, and M&Ps require lots of expert customization, tuning, and after-market support (Apex Tactical offerings aside)? Mr. Yam's diabolical plan is to do exactly what with the M&P?   Are Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and Mike Pannone riding the same polymer train? Or is it just possible that these men recognize a better mousetrap when they see one?

OP, you mentioned this would be your first handgun, so I'm going to ignore the warning and shoot you straight: a 1911 is probably not the best choice. Not the best choice in general, not the best choice at the $1100.00 price point, and certainly not the best choice as a first handgun.   I love 1911s. I have had several all up and down the price / performance spectrum. I currently have 2, but they are my least frequently fired guns and would be the first 2 guns I'd let go if I had to let some get away from me. Don't take my word for it - read Hilton Yam's article on why he (well-acknowledged 1911 guru) is moving away from the 1911 platform.   http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6631   I suggest you try out a Glock 17 or 19 and an M&P FS and compact. Equip one of these with night sights, 2 quality holsters, and a couple of cases of ammo for your $1100.00. And don't forget some training!   Hope you enjoy whatever you end up with and let us all know what you chose.

Per The Chattanoogan and other sources:   The shooter was dismissed from Hamilton County Corrections for abuse and brutality to inmates. The same sources state he was also terminated from Erlanger Hospital Security.   Victim was a local fitness trainer and coach, who apparently left his vehicle and approached the victim's vehicle.   Shooter is reported to have an "advanced, and very aggressive form of cancer".   Leaving the scene is very bad Ju-Ju.,but it wouldn't surprise me to hear a claim of self-defense based on disparity of force related to the victim's youth, apparent size and strength, and "rapid, aggressive, closing of the distance between the parties".

Yup, 9 - if you only count  Taller, More Outspoken Fred once. Chances R, you wouldn't be the gentleman I spoke with during lunch? Healthcare professional?

I just finished my first AR pistol project. It's a BCM 11.5 lightweight upper on a Noveske lower with the Sig SB15. The difference between this setup and my friend's with cane tips and / or foam sleeves is night and day. The SB 15 is NOT floppy. It's more like the sidewall of a tire, and nothing like foam or soft rubber. I've got considerable time behind a Colt Commando with an entry stock and that is very much what this "pistol" feels like - only much lighter.   It's a pistol per the ATF, so it can be transported like any other pistol.   Sig sent a 1/2 size copy of the ATF letter in the box. I keep it and a copy of the lower invoice showing it to have been bought as a stripped lower. The 4473 backs that up, if necessary.   One internet wit opined that AR pistols are "kind of like a wrench doing the work of a hammer" while awkwardly driving a nail with a wrench. At the end of his video, we shoulders the weapon (NOT a legal problem) and tests it out. Turning to the camera, he holds up the weapon, and through a big grin says "This wrench is one fine hammer!" I heartily agree.

  Zero holes - so no one wanted to be the first. Yes, after dry indoor practice, the rest of the day was spent on the outside range.

You know it's going to be a good class when you find yourself dropping to the deck, drawing and (dry) firing within the first 60 minutes.   I attended Eric Matson's TAC 2 course back in late November and I'm surprised it took me this long to write about it because I thought It was great training. But life can get a bit busy this time of year and I didn't find the time. I felt it was important to get the word out because when I searched online for a class report I found jack about this class.   We began the class in the indoor classroom with introductions and the safety brief. Next, Eric reviewed the draw stroke and some other basics. We then progressed to doing some cool stuff dry before heading out to the outdoor range. Once there, we did a little pre-assesment to see where we were skill-wise and to better gauge our progress at the end of the day. Most of the guys attending were either graduates of TAC 1 or regulars at the indoor range or both. All in all a good group of guys that made the day even more enjoyable. You know what I mean - you've trained with THAT GUY or - God forbid - THOSE GUYS! We had none of that, and Eric ran a good, safe, interesting class without having to be a Safety Nazi.   Some of the highlights were:   Timed draw and fire at realistic (5 to 10 yards) distances. Goal was 6 solid hits in 2 seconds.   Drawing and engaging a threat outside a car window. Hint: Don't be the first guy to shoot the car door. None of us did.   Defending from the ground after falling / being knocked down.   Defending from a realistic simulated bedroom attack scenario (attacker surprising you while in bed) complete with a requirement to sometimes roll the 160 # striking dummy off yourself before you could engage.   A 2-man "tactical dueling tree" drill using several pieces of simulated cover and starting from a seated position. Each shot had to be made after moving to a new position.    And my favorite, the room clearing shoot / no shoot exercise. With the shooter standing behind a barricade and unable to see, a scenario was set up with mannequins and various pieces of cover. Balloons facilitated head shots (if called for) and the number, position, and items held by the mannequins changed for each shooter. This was GOOD STUFF!   Eric Matson knows his stuff (a founder of the Midwest Tactical Officers Association and long time SWAT cop) and teaches a very good class which also may be the best bang-for-your-training-buck around. This class was $100 for a solid day of quality, fun, training doing things that would get you banned for life and / or flogged at dawn at most any regular range. Check out Tactical Advantage Corp if you want to take your shooting to the next level.

Great timing and great choice of subject matter! Really looking forward to this.

I've never used Lowes for flooring, but have had good and "meh" experiences with doors and cabinets.   Recently, after much comparison shopping, I used End Of The Roll for wood flooring and carpet. I could not be more pleased. The fact that they are a Christian company was an added plus.

Well, TAC 2 it is! Thanks, Chances R. I just found out I can get 8 hours Con Ed credit for a 2 day Appleseed. That gives me my 16 hours. I appreciate everyone who chimed in on this; I was starting to sweat a little.