Jonnin

Welcome! I do not know where you should go if you just WANT to take the class, but I can tell you this: Effective July 1, 2005, Tennessee handgun carry permit law will now allow certain applicants already exempt from complying with firing range provisions of the current statute to also be exempt from any classroom requirements. Those current exceptions are applicants who prove to the department that within five (5) years from the date of application for handgun permit, the applicant has: Been certified by the police officer's standards and training commission, or successfully completed training at the law enforcement training academy; or successfully completed the firearms training course required for armed security guards; or successfully completed all handgun training of not less than four (4) hours as required by any branch of the military.

lack of facts of course, but captain crimestopper sounds like the agressor. Why was he out of his car? What was the kid doing to deserve being accosted by this guy? What life threatening event caused the gun to be drawn? Unless he has some hard facts, he is going to come out of this sounding like a redneck with a gun who was out looking for a chance to use it, and found just such a chance. The race card is coming too.... a nonwhite kid in a nice area? No wai, must be up to something! He better have a very, very good story to tell about what was suspect about the teen (apart from his race) and why he was out of that car, doing what 911 told him to NOT do. Getting out of your car, hassleing someone & starting a fight, then shooting the other guy.... is NOT self defense. Stand your ground law might allow for it, but this really sounds bad even with that flimsy excuse. The only thing the shooter has that sounds remotely reasonable is he was apparently knocked down, back was dirty and his head was cut a little. Which is no more than many would do if some idiot gets out of his car and starts crap.

the 30 has a hefty trigger for a single action. I started to buy one and that made me stop... its 6 or 7 pounds easy. Otherwise, they seem to be working now and in enough demand that you rarely see one, I have only seen 2 so far and the one I looked at sold in under 48 hours at the store. It would be a neat gun, for sure. I can see it as an interesting carry gun for some people, but as a range gun, I dunno. Paying nearly 9mm price for the ammo, and at the end of the day, at the range, the only thing it can do that any .22 cannot is hold more rounds.

a pistol caliber lever gun holds quite a few, at least 10 shots of 357 I think (??) on the average. And its not bad to load, similar to an auto shotgun, with practice its not bad at all, and with practice, you can shoot them pretty darn fast. Ive got a 308 lever action; you can find them in a lot of calibers. A lever 357 is as good as a 223 IMHO for defense purposes and better for hunting.

some sniper mosins, authentic in best condition you can find --- a couple hundred now, worth a ton once all the idiots get thru cutting the bulk of them into cheap deer or range "sporters". Look at what happened to all the 1909 mausers.... same thing is happening to these guns.

From all you have said and been thru here outlaw, I *strongly* stand by the rock island 1911 in 9mm. Keep this in mind. Every DA gun has a sloppy pull. The first (double action shot) is heavy and long pull. The followup shots have give in the trigger before the sear is activated. Its not possible to do it any other way, really, without a really complex action that would be prone to failure (bunch of gears, for example). The beretta 92 is a FINE gun. It is, however, typical of a DA gun and just like the ruger for the trigger. I have both, and like both a lot, but I dunno if YOU would like ANY double action pistol. The only thing that is going to have a decent trigger (compared to say a single action revolver) is a single action auto, and those are almost all (apart from a few .22s) 1911 style. Missed that post. If you picked makarov, I can show you how to make it single action, but its going to take a cnc machine. We did mine and its a sweet target pistol.

Sigh on again off again with kel tec. I would buy the 22 mag, but the trigger on it is awful -- a bit of slop and not a light pull. Its technically a single action, and I had hopes it would be like the plr or rifles, but its no target pistol. I dunno if it can be fixed or not, but I passed over it because of the trigger pull Makes a heck of a weapon though --- 30 rounds of that is significant.

7000 grains is 1 pound. From there its just simple math ... say a 140 grain 9mm vs a 115, so thats 140-115 = 25. 100 of those is 2500 grains more. 200 is 5k. 300 is 7500, about a pound then for every 300 rounds. 243 is a 308 with a necked down and lighter powder charge (at least I think its much lighter, someone can correct me?) and is an ultra high velocity, long range, flat shooting round that is fine for man or beast up to a pretty good sized animal, anything around here. It would be ideal for teens/kids/women/nerds/etc. Trouble is, no bulk military buys on the ammo. You were talking about a bolt action gun though, not a spray & pray. 243 is not that expensive for a few rounds, and 100 per person should be more than enough. What is it FOR that you need more than a few rounds in a BA gun?? Personal story... we had a target on rebar at a guy's backyard range. "Had" because the 243 cut the bar in half... its really moving right along, was the first round where I actually heard the sonic boom of the bullet in the distance (not uncommon but my first as a teenager). Again its hard to beat surplus ammo. Is there a different WW2 gun that might do for the weaker family members? Most of that stuff is brutal, I cannot think of it. I downloaded my 765 to just over a 30-30, but thats handloading and it makes a great shooter, still plenty of oomph at 100-200 yards. I don't need a mile range sniper gun. If handloading is an option, get the 308 and you can drop some rounds down. And, handloading will save you a TON on this project anyway...!!! Dunno, just random thoughts.

mosin is a brick to lug around, as are the other similar guns (mausers and so forth). I love my mauser but I dunno about hauling it very far. It would best suited to mount in the back of a jeep! Hard to beat the price of it though, and if you bubba the crap out of it you can cut the weight down to "hunting rifle" range. Not hard to reduce the weight on them but gotta be careful as messing with the stock/barrel can fubar the accuracy. Those look like great choices, and I kick myself for forgetting to mention the shared magazines --- I even thought it when I mentioned kel-tec. The 25 round 10-22 mags are not expensive at all. I would suggest getting the mossy in 243 for the wife and kids, but I would also say 308 because of the surplus ammo supply. Not sure which way is better for you. I would get 308 cause its easy to deal with and my wife can handle it well enough, and I dont have kids. But .... its a shoulder thumper. Its a compromise but you might get lighter weight bullets for your supply. The difference in 115 grain 9mm and 140 grain 9mm isnt much, but every 300 rounds is a pound difference in bullet mass. Rifles, the same. A 243 vs a 308 will save you a few pounds.

Hah, that is funny. I think the issue around here isnt that a 30-30 or less is good enough for anything, its that people have all these toys and want to use them. I can understand that. Its hard to turn down a gun that calls to you, and if it can take an elephant at 1500 yards, but you WANT it, you buy it & then go looking for a practical application.... and all that comes to mind is blowing a deer in half at 75 yards.

you cannot interchange them. The bullets and barrels are close, but the case is a little different and won't quite interchange. So the ones that fire both are typically revolvers that have 2 cylinders or specially made chambers in a long gun like a lever action. Its pretty common. Most places carry the ammo, its not any more expensive than cheap 9mm, say $10 or so for 50. My wife tried the S&W airweight and since christmas, the cylinder cracked at the center, repaired but she is gonna sell that one. She is replacing with the taurus, which so far seems to be solid steel and well made but gritty and rough action. Both had horrid DA trigger pulls and decent SA pulls. It has a lot of energy and low mass, is a flat shooting penetrator of a round. Compare the energy to major calibers, its close... not quite a 38 special and more than a 380 if I remember right, somewhere in that energy neighborhood.

Oh, OK. Lets see... you want cheap... 4 guns at 1600 is 400 each or less. No hunting stuff. A totally different problem... Kel tec plr 16. Using standard AR 15 mags in 223, it shoots cheap ammo, is a cheap gun, accurate and reliable, lightweight ... its the perfect inexpensive replacement for an AR. If you prefer a rifle, the same gun is sold as a rifle, one of the other Kel-Tecs, just a longer barrel and stock but same action and design. $500 roughly, or less, it varies. Handgun: take your pick. A used 9mm glock is going to be fairly cheap. A surplus cz82, you could spend $500 and have both the gun and 1k rounds of ammo for it .... most of that price is the ammo! Its not quite a 9mm, but trust me, the bad guy won't know the difference. But unless you go for an exotic surplus gun, that used glock or other used gun (I got a used ruger p89 9mm for $250 for example, reliable all day long though its a brick) is the way to go. If the gun cost over $500, you did it wrong here. Pistol caliber carbine: Here also, kel tec makes an inexpensive gun. Also, the highpoint carbines have a solid reputation. These are inexpensive guns that you will want to buy, test, break in, and get them up to par before stowing them --- sometimes inexpensive brands have troubles and while you can get em fixed, best to do that right away before you need the gun. Once working, they tend to work well for a long time. that just leaves you a .22. I would get a S&W 22a or 22as pistol, which is a target gun with a long enough barrel to get some velocity and very, very accurate. Another good choice is the classic 10-22 rifle. The pistol is lighter to haul around if you want to carry all 4, though. Of these, the only ones I cannot vouch for are the highpoints. I have heard good things from some cheap buddies, but I have not owned one nor fired one more than a couple of shots. Again, cannot stress enough that while a cheap gun will do a lot, you must break them in and discover any issues with them right away, so they will be ready to go. The biggest difference between big brand names and high price tags is the ability to use it out of the box without issues and the number of rounds before it is worn out. Presumably, a week or 2 of civil unrest won't wear out cheap guns, so you really just need to ensure they work out of the box which some of the "less reputable" "cheap/inexpensive" weapons, ahh, "strugggle" with. Edit: both highpoint and kel tec have lifetime "we will fix it for you" warrenty, which is why I listed them over some of the other inexpensive options.

A car would make an excellent backstop. If you life is in danger and you perform a clean shoot and cause property damage to an empty vehicle, so be it. Better to not, of course, but if it happens, it happens. A parked, empty car is no big deal. An innocent customer or someone on the road 200 yards away, those are your concerns. Whatever else happens, hitting an innocent is not good and must be avoided.... if that means you blow a hole in a lexus, well better than a grandma or a kid or anyone else.

If you had to do it with 3 guns ---- well, I would say get a shotgun first, and have slugs and buckshot and bird shot all in quantity, and use it as your hunting rifle / birds/ and defensive long arm. So a high cap semiauto 12 gauge. Next I would say get a 308 AR if you can afford it, or a similar platform in 308. Lots of ammo, long range, deadly power, versatile. And unfortunately that means using one of the above as your primary source of defense, and getting a .22 pistol for small game. Or, if you can, a 22 multi caliber (22 short, long, and mag) revolver perhaps --- which can be used for self defense with the magnums, if you needed a smaller weapon. Given the small size and weight of modern pistols, I see no reason to not have a second pistol in 9mm to go with this setup. I could easily carry 4 or 5 modern pistols in my pockets without much trouble, why not have some extras?

You can rest assured that ruger will copy anything if it looks profitable.

This. I also always tell them right off, with my hands on the steering wheel. None have ever said much, mostly something along the lines of "that's fine, thanks for telling me". One ran my ID and came back & asked if I were armed, I said no (I was not) because I was going places it was not allowed, and he did not search or anything just grunted at me. Comes down to, I have nothing to hide. If I can convince the LEO that I have nothing to hide and am totally up front with it all, he does not feel the need to make me get out, disarm, search the car, or otherwise waste time and get stressed out. It just isnt worth it.

mine has never been picky. Just needs to be cleaned pretty regular or it can start failing to feed. Ive shot a wide variety of 44s without any trouble at all, even some fairly light stuff worked, as did some reloads bought at a gunshow. I cant see why the 50 or 357 would be any different, but if it were going to be picky it seems the 357 would be the one, long and narrow seem to be more troublesome in autos. I would bet most complaints come from lack of cleaning --- these rounds have a lot of powder, and the more powder, the more residue, 100+ is a pretty dirty gun.

Most people get tired of them, or of feeding them. I got mine used for $800. No, I am not selling it

DE in 44 mag. Much, much easier to find ammo, and just as loud and fun. The last 50 AE I saw was like $35 a box. If you want the revolver .... get a DE revolver in 30-30 or one of the other rifle calibers (I think it comes in 50/500 of some flavor too).

the campus has medical stuff for free, its part of the tuition. You get some rather basic services, a little more than what a highschool has.... first aid, asprin, they will take your temp & get you help if you need to go to a hospital or something, and so on. Not sure if someone things free BC is part of that or not (it is NOT, normally). It really didnt make a lot of sense. Rush had a quote from the woman or a video or something where she said she is paid for sex... which is what he based his commentary on. I do not pay a lot of attention to rush so maybe that isnt correct, but you can dig around online and see for yourself what she said to congress if you care enough to read it.

If anyone has a right to complain about how our government has behaved, its the natives. Let them have their traditions in peace.

I am sure I could build a target that my desert eagle could drop but your 45 could not. Its all relative. Then we could do the same to prove that you need a 50 caliber bmg... metal plates do not mean much. I could throw a brick or even a baseball at that target where the 9mm failed and knock it down .... but I would rather have a 9mm. This demonstration seems to fail the common sense test, in other words, and I would not put too much faith into such a setup. I really question people that make a demo like this, I think such things do more harm than good. It just confuses the issue. In the end, its all compromise. Penetration, energy, momentum, gun size, .... blah blah something has to give, and each person has to pick from what is out there and what they can handle, conceal, etc. I would most like to have my 223 pistol if I have to get into a gunfight with a handgun. But its difficult to carry, so I probaly will not have it if something happens to me. Instead I will have something much smaller, lower cap, and shorter range.... thats just how it is for anyone not wanting to spend a lot of time talking to the police

Some clerks ask and some do not. I think they were trained to ask the question, same as they were trained to look at your ID when you buy booze. I always tell them I do not know, that I have both types of guns that use the same ammo and it is based off my whim on shootin' day. One of them seemed amazed that 9mm rifles exist, it is always fun to educate the younguns.

welcome! Chattanooga is a great place for shootin stuff once you get away from the "dont do that here" city limits

I think that is fair given the "unknown hardness" factor. You probably know your hardness within some margin of estimate. Mine are booking right along with no leading same as yours, but they are quite hard compared to pure lead. I do not think I would fool with the softer stuff in a rifle, I do not even care for it in a handgun. Maybe a BP effort would be OK, a smoothbore of some sort.