Jonnin

200 yards with my kel tec 223 plr 16, bench rested with a scope. That is the fartherest range have access to easily, so I have not had a chance to take it any farther --- I am sure it would do quite a bit more.

the biggest difference between all these guns, for a novice shooter, is the trigger. You could hand me that $5000 .45 and my shooting would be about the same --- it will be years (if ever) before I can put them all in the 9s and 10s without screwing it up. My guns are introductory, and I am jealous of the trigger jobs on the expensive ones. The rest of it, I can live without. You want to learn the sport with a cheap gun, shoot at 25 yards or the indoor distances --- even a cheap gun can make a tight group at short range.

I think not. Until reading it and looking at it again, I thought we had a very nice sword & shield /knight type design.

beretta px4 subcompact 40 is very small but a little fat. I like mine a lot but the width makes it difficult to get into a pocket.

I reload. I made some light target loads that were just a little over the published starter loads. They cycled my beretta 92, my ruger p85, and other guns. The glock jammed every single time. It took 2 tries of increasing the load by 1/2 a grain each before they cycled the glock reliably. The first 1/2 grain cycled some and jammed some. I have not seen a glock fail on any factory ammo. Others seem to be getting light stuff to work, so maybe is a non issue, try the stout springs & see if they work. Springs are cheap, and they work or not its easy to put the old one back in.

Did I lose my man card for having the 44 in an automatic?

I clean my mark 2 about every 500 rounds. Cleaning, done right, should not harm the gun. You should not be using anything hard enough to damage steel, should be a brass rod or softer (I use a wooden dowel usually) and a brass brush (if needed) or just cloth patches (normally all you need).

glad you found something you like! 9mm and 380 are the same diameter, but the 9mm has significantly more power. It is a pretty big step, and when using +P defense ammo, its a very noticable difference. I also shoot at the depo a lot, its a nice facility. I have shot 6 or 7 of the personal guns of the staff ... which has netted them at least 2 sales so far. They are doing a glock competition of some sort so I could have guessed that they sold a number of them. Bad timing, or good timing maybe since you really liked the ruger.

you can get a glock ported, our 17 came that way from the factory (17C because of the port). Stronger springs... may not be a good idea. Glocks are already sprung hard, for +P ammo (starter loads for 9mm won't cycle them, had to use 75% of max load for reliable function!!). You can try a wrap around grip, if your hands are not too small for it, that can really help as well. In the end, though, glocks recoil hard. No weight and grip angle make recoil excessive compared to other guns in the same size and caliber. You could add weights to it, but that would probably annoy you since you didnt like the heavier sig. You could try the stouter springs but it may jam on cheap ammo, forcing you to feed it ONLY +P which is usually expensive. Those are the only things I can think of to do to it.

"mouse" calibers are nasty if you put them into a larger framed gun, yet retain a low recoil factor. A 380 out of a 5 inch barrel will both expand and penetrate well enough. Put it into a 2 inch barrel pocket rocket, and it cannot do so well (use solid points, give up on expansion). A 22 mag is also very good in a 4-5 inch barrel pistol. With 30 rounds of it out of a 4 & change inch barrel, the kel tec pmr 30 is probably the most powerful defensive handgun you can get for someone with weak hands.

ria makes a good gun. Very good, considering its price. And, I would add that high end 1911s are not always good carry choice -- you don't want to ding up a $4000 gun, and the extra tight fits of high dollar guns make for (sometimes) pick ammo eating, and they can also be picky about being clean (dunno about you but my carry gun gets lint and dust and such, I clean it once a month even if unfired!). A high end trigger is going to be very light, which the rumor mill always claims can get you in legal trouble (hair trigger blah blah blah) though I have never seen a case quoted for that. I would rather have the ria than most high end guns for daily use. Or a mid grade, nothing much over 1000 for sure. Recommendations: First, if you are OK with the glock, keep the glock. If you hate the thing, sell it and from there: consider a more modern 1911 design. Ria makes a high capacity 9mm "1911" for example, which is an excellent alternative to the old 7 shot 45 variety. Selling guns is a losing game; you get a fraction of what you spent, then turn around to buy a new one and get robbed. Look for a used gun, but few people sell their rias once they get em, or look for a decent trade. 9mm is much, much cheaper than 45 to shoot for practice, and swapping to a totally new platform means you will need practice.

ok, well drop it down 5 more grains then I have not had any lead problems with it, but different bullets in a different gun, if this load is boarderline cut it down a bit and work up if you like.

are you sure? I have it at roughly 2000 fps using these http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=105&category=6&secondary=&keywords= and it is a low recoil (compared to factory 30-30) load that has been working pretty well for me.

alliant #7 at around 25 grains -- probably on the weak side but its a start. That is probably an ok starter for both weights -- the manual says 30 grains for a 130 jacketed, for reference.

Hah!

sig p238 has low recoil for its size, but the bersa, walther, and "huge" 380s are much better. The beretta (and cloned?) cheetah (??) series of 380s are some of the best for recoil. An auto soaks some recoil, a revolver puts most of it into your hands, so I would not go revolver unless you go big frame, medium caliber, say a 4+ inch steel 357 shooting 38s. 22 mag is a pretty nasty round, for the mouseguns. The 5.7 as well. makarovs shoot cheap ammo, if you are willing to buy it online in cases, they are like a 380, all steel, mild recoil. Lots of other options too. but I wouldnt get anything more expensive to shoot than a 9mm, then let her blast away in bulk.

I used to think a revolver was just too difficult to use, as most of the ones I have had heavy, long triggers and rough actions. Even my beloved single actions are rough to pull the hammer back, just have a good trigger pull once the work is done. Look around, esp at used ones. There are some gems that have light, easy to work triggers amongst all the rough ones, or you can DIY or pay to have the action cleaned up (this is why used ones have many gems). Having shot a few of the better ones, I would carry such a gun. I only have 1 that is usable and its borderline too big to lug around, older S&W patrolman sized gun.

interesting grip by the way, on greycrits. I put a wrap around on mine, it comes off to deep clean it, so it is sub-optimal solution but it works pretty well so far. Also a 22-45. The other type (whatever it is, the regular not 22/45 ones) have many replacement grip options, the traditional target grip style (large, wrist paddle, etc style).

the S&W is a fine gun, the only thing cheap about it is that stupid plastic washer that holds the recoil rod in place. It is otherwise fairly solid. It is as accurate as the others. I put the buckmark, 22A, and ruger marks at a tie, and all 3 are all anyone needs unless doing serious competition. After these, plan to spend $1500+ for the next one (S&W 41, hammerli, etc). I still use a mark II. My wife went a little oddball: she had a custom made cz kadet ($1k after all the work) that does quite well. She likes it but it has a lot of trigger takeup that most target shooters would cringe at. Once the slack is taken up it has a nice pull --- guess its glockish in that regard. The buckmark can be a bit of a hassle to tap for a red dot. The back end of the gun has 2 screws that disassemble the pistol. If you mount forward of these, you have a front heavy result. If you mount to reuse them, you have to recalibrate the sight after you removed it to clean the gun. Can be an annoying issue. Speaking of how I know this, I have a 7 inch barrel (round version) buckmark with a rail already on it.... but you said 6 inches max....

I weigh my .22s and a few batches of my own handloads for precision shooting but by and large, no, its too much trouble. If I weighed every round I shot, I would be sitting there checking ammo 5 hours a day.

chatt is suffering a bit of growing pains. Not really population wise, but the city as a whole (gov't and citizens) are not used to urban issues. Gangs, meth, poverty/economy, illegals, pimps, the usual suspects are all at large and our police are undermanned, government has its head in the sand and spends all its time trying to keep our image clean to attract tourists. We officially have no gang problems, for example, according to (I think it was) the governer or mayor or someone like that. Yet a kid opened up with a 223 on a schoolbus, and we have shootouts in the public parks between ... dunno what they are, if not gangs. Basically no one wants to even admit there is a problem, let alone deal with it, so the problem grows...

You want small rifle primers, large pistol primers for sure. I cannot tell one brand of primer from another. Many powders will work but you will want a rifle and a pistol powder, no way around it. I like accurate poweders because they work very well in my powder dispenser (lee disk). I use #5 for almost all pistol calibers, and 2230 is a no brainer for the 223 if you want to use this brand. The #5 is good for 380-45 but not really great for magnum calibers. 2230 provides solid, good loads in all my rifles BUT I shoot my rifles with weakish target loads --- my 308 loading is not much more powerful than a 30-30 for example. If you wanted a more realistic load for a variety of rifles other powders would be better (and still work in 223). For the .45 you can shoot lead cheaply, 500 rounds is not much over $30, and it is cheaper to shoot lighter bullets (200 or less grains). If you want a copper plated round it will cost more. This one depends on what you want to do with it... high accuracy? Just blast away at short range? For the 223 I love the hornady 55 grain bullets seen here: http://www.hornady.c...with-cannelure/ I have not found a more accurate bullet. If you want short range zombie work, you can get pulled bullets cheap, or second quality, etc. You will want a case trimmer for the 223. And my advice is to get that press and dies, start popping out the primers and sizing the cases so you can trim them a few at a time. Rifle brass takes a lot of work compared to the pistol (you can just use the pistol brass after tumbling it). I would also get a case cleaner, also so you can prep brass as you accumulate it. I cannot recommend a turret press enough. Single stage can more than double the time spent per box. Progressive and better cut the time down more but the turret is a modestly priced option that is great for starting up. Keep a weather eye on the LEE refurbished gear page if you are looking to keep the investment low, you sometimes find various things there, dies or whatnots, occasionally a good press.

We like the finger grooved rubber ones. Not as pretty as the wood, but very good feel.

Ours is a s&w M&P something, slightly different model but all in all we have been well pleased. It is right on accurate up to 100 yards ( have not tried it much past that) using a variety of ammo, does not jam, well made and well put together. I do not think *I* could have built a better one from parts, if I had it would have cost more and probably had issues to work out. It is an excellent gun at a reasonable price.

Yes, you just hammer it together. I have not used one, but there are videos online of them in use and details about them. Someone here has probably used one. Nicemac,I never said *everything* was free online. I said you can get the basic load data online from the powder manufacturer, and as much (or more) how-to info as well. Apart from obscure calibers or +p data, the manuals are, while nice, $20 and up spent on a book that contains largely free info. Its like buying a set of encyclopedias in today's world. They are nice, and look good in your bookshelf, but 95% of the info is available for free.