What the FBI Learned about Gangsta Thug Mentality

[Warbird]

I started this thread in response to another thread about an incident a TGO member had with an individual at his apartment.

Here is what the FBI learned about mentality LEO and civilians might should have in dealing with Gangsta thug type people.

Part of it is linked to another website with an entire article and part is linked to the FBI report. Links at bottom.

Top 5 Most Disturbing Gangsta Tactics

The five most disturbing discoveries of the FBI’s study are that these ganstas:

1. Have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger.
   
2. Have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than most police.
   
3. Practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately than the average police although tend to "Shoot for effect" without aiming in actual encounters.
   
4. Nearly 70% of gangstas were successful (In getting rounds on target) with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found.
   
5. The street combat veterans (Gangstas) survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.
   

"If you hesitate," one gangsta told the study’s researchers, "you’re dead. You have the instinct or you don’t. If you don’t, you’re in trouble on the street…

Here’s the FBI’s conclusions about gangstas and guns after studying them for five years:

Weapon Choice

1. Handguns, obtained illegally in street transactions or thefts.
   
2. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows.
   
3. What was available "was the overriding factor in weapon choice".
   
4. None of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law–federal, state or local–that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership.
   
5. The gangsta’s in the study "just laughed at gun laws".
   

Familiarity

1. The average age was 17 when they first started packing "most of the time."
   
2. Nearly 40% of the gangstas had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military.
   
3. More than 80% "regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year,"
   
4. Practice was usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and "street corners in known drug-trafficking areas."
   
5. One spoke of being motivated to improve his gun skills by his belief that officers "go to the range two, three times a week [and] practice arms so they can hit anything."
   
6. Officers in the study averaged 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required.
   
7. The gangstas practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this "may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills,"
   
8. The gangsta quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.
   
9. More than 40% of the gangstas had been involved in actual shooting confrontations before they feloniously assaulted an officer.
   
10. Ten of these "street combat veterans," all from "inner-city, drug-trafficking environments," had taken part in 5 or more "criminal firefight experiences" in their lifetime.
    
11. One reported that he was 14 when he was first shot on the street, "about 18 before a cop shot me."
    
12. Another said getting shot was a pivotal experience "because I made up my mind no one was gonna shoot me again."
    
13. Only eight of the 50 LEO victims had participated in a prior shooting; 1 had been involved in 2 previously, another in 3. Seven of the 8 had killed gangstas.
    

Concealment

1. The gangstas said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place.
   
2. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion."
   
3. None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon.
   
4. In motor vehicles, they most often kept their firearm readily available on their person, or, less often, under the seat.
   
5. In residences, most stashed their weapon under a pillow, on a nightstand, under the mattress–somewhere within immediate reach while in bed.
   
6. Almost all carried when on the move and strong majorities did so when socializing, committing crimes or being at home.
   
7. About one-third brought weapons with them to work.
   
8. Interestingly, the gangstas in this study more commonly admitted having guns under all these circumstances than did gangstas interviewed in the researchers’ earlier 2 surveys, conducted in the 1980s and ’90s.
   
9. Male gangstas said time and time again that female officers tend to search them more thoroughly than male officers.
   
10. In prison, most of the gangstas were more afraid to carry contraband or weapons when a female CO was on duty.
    
11. On the street, however, both male and female officers too often regard female subjects "as less of a threat, assuming that they are not going to have a gun.
    
12. In truth, the researchers concluded that more female gangstas are armed today than 20 years ago–"not just female gang associates, but female gangstas generally."
    

Shooting Style

1. Twenty-six of the gangstas [about 60%], including all of the street combat veterans, "claimed to be instinctive shooters, pointing and firing the weapon without consciously aligning the sights".
   
2. Gangstas frequently "Practice getting the gun out and using it".
   
3. Gangstas "Shoot for effect." Or as one of the gangstas put it: "We’re not working with no marksmanship….We just putting it in your direction, you know….It don’t matter…as long as it’s gonna hit you…if it’s up at your head or your chest, down at your legs, whatever….Once I squeeze and you fall, then…if I want to execute you, then I could go from there."
   

Hit Rate

1. More often than the officers they attacked, gangstas delivered at least some rounds on target in their encounters.
   
2. Nearly 70% of gangstas were successful (In getting rounds on target) with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found. (Efforts of gangstas and officers to get on target were considered successful if any rounds struck, regardless of the number fired).
   
3. Gangstas "Might have had an advantage because in all but 3 cases they fired first, usually catching the officer by surprise".
   
4. "10 of the total victim officers had been wounded [and thus impaired] before they returned gunfire at their attackers."
   

Missed Cues

1. Officers would less likely be caught off guard by attackers if they were more observant of indicators of concealed weapons, the study concludes.
   
2. These particularly include manners of dress, ways of moving and unconscious gestures often related to carrying.
   
3. "Officers should look for unnatural protrusions or bulges in the waist, back and crotch areas," the study says, and watch for "shirts that appear rippled or wavy on one side of the body while the fabric on the other side appears smooth."
   
4. In warm weather, multilayered clothing inappropriate to the temperature may be a giveaway.
   
5. On cold or rainy days, a subject’s jacket hood may not be covering his head because it is being used to conceal a handgun.
   
6. Because they eschew holsters, gangstas reported frequently touching a concealed gun with hands or arms "to assure themselves that it is still hidden, secure and accessible" and hasn’t shifted".
   
7. Such gestures are especially noticeable "whenever individuals change body positions, such as standing, sitting or exiting a vehicle".
   
8. If they run, they may need to keep a constant grip on a hidden gun to control it.
   
9. Just as cops generally blade their body to make their sidearm less accessible, armed criminals "do the same in encounters with LEOs to ensure concealment and easy access."
   
10. Officers who are assigned to look for concealed weapons, while working off-duty security at night clubs for instance, are often highly proficient at detecting them. "But then when they go back to the street without that specific assignment, they seem to ‘turn off’ that skill," and thus are startled–sometimes fatally–when a suspect suddenly produces a weapon and attacks.
    

Mind-Set

1. Thirty-six of the 50 officers in the study had "experienced hazardous situations where they had the legal authority" to use deadly force "but chose not to shoot." They averaged 4 such prior incidents before the encounters that the researchers investigated.
   
2. "It appeared clear that none of these officers were willing to use deadly force against an gangsta if other options were available".
   
3. The gangstas were of a different mind-set entirely. In fact, the study team "did not realize how cold blooded the younger generation of gangsta is. They have been exposed to killing after killing, they fully expect to get killed and they don’t hesitate to shoot anybody, including a police officer.
   
4. They can go from riding down the street saying what a beautiful day it is to killing in the next instant.
   
5. "gangstas typically displayed no moral or ethical restraints in using firearms".
   
6. The street combat veterans (Gangstas) survived by developing a shoot-first mentality
   

Link to full article. Synopsis of FBI findings by a writer in a commentary piece

Gangstas and Guns: Tactical Tips from The FBI | Your Optimal

Here is a link to the full FBI study

http://www.pdsdc.org/Resources/SLD/Violent%20Encounters,%20A%20Study%20of%20Felonious%20Assaults%20on%20Our%20Nation%27s%20Law%20Enforcement%20Officers%20by%20DOJ.pdf

Edited to include another Link giving Syonpsis of findings from the Force Science Institute

http://www.forcescience.org/fsinews/2006/12/new-findings-from-fbi-about-cop-attackers-their-weapons/

Edited February 11, 2010 by Warbird

[Sidinman]

Very good Warbird ! I saw this some where last year, but not sure where it was. So it looks like we all need to practice alot more than some us do. THANKS

[Guest Baddawg865]

great post!

[setsdw]

Very interesting. It makes you wonder what could be done outside of more practice and higher vigilance on detecting cw's. Obviously LEO's can't use a "shoot first" mentality.

[Smith]

Very interesting.

[Chief07]

Excellent post. I copied it for my friends and myself.

Thank you.

[Guest rystine]

Very interesting post. And when you think about it, not the least bit surprising either, unfortunatly.

[Tempest455]

Ditto. VERY intresting!

[Guest jackdm3]

"Shooting Style #3" is quite encouraging.

[Links2k]

I think the post is bs. I refuse to believe that the F.B.I. wrote a report about "gangstas". I can't dispute the findings, but the wording does not seem like something that would be produced by the FBI. The value of this post to me is to make sure I continue to train to win the fight.

[Guest malbolja]

Let's not buy into their BS paradigm by calling them "gangstas".

[Warbird]

I think the post is bs. I refuse to believe that the F.B.I. wrote a report about "gangstas". I can't dispute the findings, but the wording does not seem like something that would be produced by the FBI. The value of this post to me is to make sure I continue to train to win the fight.

As is linked at the bottom of the article, the term gangsta was the term used by the author of the synopsis piece in the first link. The information in his piece was correct from the report, but it was just a rundown of the highlights. If you click on that link, you find more article plus all of the cites from where he pulled the information including the FBI report.

A gangsta, gang banger whatever you want to call it is probably different from a common thief. I believe the author is using slang to refer to how they label themselves, but in general some term must be used to differentiate these people from other petty criminals in the sense of how they think about violence. Non-gang members may well on average have different mindsets, though not reared in a violent environment or surrounded by violence. I have heard though that addicts particular meth addicts, have a tendency toward violence even if not affiliated with a violent group.

The fact is though that there is a larger and larger gang problem even within smaller communities. Some of these are pseudo-gang groups and some are out to prove they are the real deal, others are the real deal. You may not really know which is which. The point is to understand the mentality of those who are really in that life and understand their mental state is that their lives often don't matter much so yours will matter even less to them. The FBI study also debunked several myths as to the abilities of these people to shoot and that their trigger time, though not necessarily training is often more than those they come into contact with including the police, sad to say.

The FBI does not use the term gangsta and I also linked to the FBI full report on their findings. I find it funny some would call bs on the report saying they don't think they FBI would use the term, when I clearly spelled at the top of the post that part of it was an article and gave the link at the bottom of the article after saying at the top it was down there, and that they could also read the full FBI report all on their own and gave a link to that report.

As you would expect the FBI issues reports based on studies one would call more scientific. They release reports of their findings in the same way. The reports are naturally longer and some would call them dull, though personally I find some of them interesting. The report is far more psychological in nature. Then in general a writer will write articles on findings for a news source or a magazine etc with a condensed version of the report. That writer will use more or less flourishes in terminology depending on the tone he wants to set. Obviously this writer likes to use more flourishes. You simply take it for what it is.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Warbird

[molonlabetn]

Gangsta, scum-of-the-earth, urban thug, soldja, etc = "offender" in this case

The findings are the same, regardless what the "offenders" are called (or call themselves). I'm really not too worried about their feelings being hurt.

[BryanP]

After reading through the linked PDF file, I see only the vaguest connection to the stats you quote. Do you have a better source for this?

[Warbird]

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2007/sept2007/september2007.htm

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports

To obtain the complete FBI findings which is a 180 page book, you would have to call the FBI. The link to their report is now a 32 page FBI condensed report. All of the information is still available. You could also contact the Force Science Institute, which I have linked to as well on the original post.

[Guest ab28]

I doubt they practice as much as it says. Everything I have heard or read about "gangstas" leads me to believe they are horrible shots, and have little more than passing familiarity with their weapon. The lack of using sights is a big indicator as well. You aren't lining up your sights, you are going to be missing a lot. I am not saying I would not consider it a threat if one of them started shooting at me, but I doubt they are anything close to crack shots.

Watch these youtube videos where they spew crap, or videos about "gangstas" and you can tell they know almost nothing about firearms.

[Guest Plainsman]

I'm going to the range Saturday.

[Guest rystine]

I doubt they practice as much as it says. Everything I have heard or read about "gangstas" leads me to believe they are horrible shots, and have little more than passing familiarity with their weapon. The lack of using sights is a big indicator as well. You aren't lining up your sights, you are going to be missing a lot. I am not saying I would not consider it a threat if one of them started shooting at me, but I doubt they are anything close to crack shots.

Watch these youtube videos where they spew crap, or videos about "gangstas" and you can tell they know almost nothing about firearms.

I think the point of the article is that these particular guys are the hardcore gangbangers, not the average street thug wannabe.

Regardless, it would probably be in everyones best interest to assume they (gangbangers) are all expert marksmen. Underestimating the bad guy is almost always a fatal mistake.

[Links2k]

Gangsta, scum-of-the-earth, urban thug, soldja, etc = "offender" in this case

The findings are the same, regardless what the "offenders" are called (or call themselves). I'm really not too worried about their feelings being hurt.

I am not worried about their feelings. I will shoot a bad guy dead regardless what he chooses to be called. I find myself questioning the mindset of people depending on the words that they use. My point was that the wording was not that of the FBI. What kind of a picture was the op attempting to paint by using the word "gangstas"?

[G27]

The lack of using sights is a big indicator as well. You aren't lining up your sights, you are going to be missing a lot. I am not saying I would not consider it a threat if one of them started shooting at me, but I doubt they are anything close to crack shots.

Did you read the whole thing? It plainly states that most use 'point shooting' - a technique that doesn't require site alignment. Many of them practice several times/week - that's a lot more than most of us do.

Watch these youtube videos where they spew crap, or videos about "gangstas" and you can tell they know almost nothing about firearms.

Yah, none of those youtube vids are made by wannabe's. </sarcasm>

In all seriousness, what you are suggesting is that everything the FBI has found is false. I'd be interested to hear if you have any evidence other than theory and youtube videos to back up your thoughts.

I found this article extremely valuable. Know your enemy...

[Warbird]

Know your enemy...

In the end I think this is really point of the whole thread. Know your enemy!

Study on mannerisms and body language. They are good indicators. Not all BG's are the same and I mean that from a mentality point of view, not a shooting ability.

Second, get good training and keep getting good training. People who are truly professional trainers with real world experience are people who are usually very good at reading people and their intentions, not infallible, but very good. A good trainer will not only teach you how to shoot and how to move, but how to read people.

Shooting at a range, or plinking as I like to call it, is great for trigger work, but IMO doesn't prepare you for true self defense. There are enough good trainers on this board that you are not from far from one no matter where you live in Tennessee.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Warbird

[Guest ab28]

Did you read the whole thing? It plainly states that most use 'point shooting' - a technique that doesn't require site alignment. Many of them practice several times/week - that's a lot more than most of us do.

Yah, none of those youtube vids are made by wannabe's. </sarcasm>

In all seriousness, what you are suggesting is that everything the FBI has found is false. I'd be interested to hear if you have any evidence other than theory and youtube videos to back up your thoughts.

I found this article extremely valuable. Know your enemy...

Point shooting is only semi accurate to about 5 yards. If they are point shooting against someone with a lot of training who is using their sights, the gangbanger is done. You can practice constantly and still be crappy if you continuously practice garbage.

I said that I would still consider them to be a threat, not dismiss it. Obviously they are bad marksmen since gang shootouts happen a lot, and there are still a ton of gangbangers.

[Guest Straight Shooter]

To ME... this excellent article, and THANKS FOR POSTING IT BTW...once more backs up and proves what Col. Cooper taught us and me all these years....MINDSET is the single most crucial element to survival,follwed by proficiency with arms. The "gangsta's", DAMN how I hate that word- have it in spades. They already know they are a target, from themselves, and the cops, and have clearly decided to "SHOOT FIRST", no hesitation. Us good guys can learn from this,we MUST learn from this. To hesitate, is to die. And I will, BY GOD, be judged by twelve,and NOT carried by six, if I can at all help it. These animals, this human garbage MUST be met with not only equal, but a SUPERIOR level of mindset,and skill. The only thing in the report I do not believe, is that they practice as much as they say. MAYBE the hardcore,true L.A. gangsters do, but most do not. Ive always said, Id rather be the one they are shooting at than a by-stander, cause they are the ones who get hit more often than not.

[G27]

Point shooting is only semi accurate to about 5 yards. If they are point shooting against someone with a lot of training who is using their sights, the gangbanger is done. You can practice constantly and still be crappy if you continuously practice garbage.

Well, the FBI says this:

• More often than the officers they attacked, gangstas delivered at least some rounds on target in their encounters.
  
• Nearly 70% of gangstas were successful (In getting rounds on target) with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found. (Efforts of gangstas and officers to get on target were considered successful if any rounds struck, regardless of the number fired).
  

Obviously they are bad marksmen since gang shootouts happen a lot, and there are still a ton of gangbangers.

?

So our military troops are bad marksman because the Taliban still exists? Or because terrorists still exist?

Pretzel logic...

AFAIC, these gangbangers are the real deal - they're as likely or more so than you or I to be willing to take a life with little provocation and practice more than both of us combined, most likely.

[trblmkr13]

It is easier to pull the trigger when you have no concerns (going to jail, hitting a bystander) LEO's must consider all those things so there respose is going to be a bit slower than someone who just reacts IMHO