Reloading Burn Test

[analog_kidd]

OK, so after my last go around and failure at loading .38spl, I want to test my theory that with the brass only less than 1/2 full of powder that the primer may be flashing over the powder and not igniting it. But, I don't want to get another bullet stuck in the barrel if the powder does not burn.

A buddy of mine, who has reloaded for a while, came up with an idea of loading a few rounds of brass with a primer and the powder, then wadding up some paper to act as a plug in place of the bullet. Load it into the gun and see which I get, a pop or a bang. Granted pressure will be less than if a bullet were inserted, but I should be able to determine if the powder is igniting.

Has anybody ever tried something like this. Any other suggestions?

[titan14]

Well...that sounds kind of wierd to me.

With all the information on the web and in reloading manuals, I'm not sure how you could fail at reloading .38's.

Try a tested recipe and go from there.....

Maybe I'm missing the point.

[Westwindmike]

I'm not sure he has a scale and is trusting the Lee Disk powder measure.

[analog_kidd]

Sorry, posted my fail report here: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/50201-made-my-first-big-time-reloading-mistake.html

Used a recipe from a couple of manuals. I did trust my Lee disks, but then remeasured and found it to be half a grain off. Short story is I had two rounds that squibbed. I suspect that only the primer fired.

[titan14]

Sorry, posted my fail report here: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/50201-made-my-first-big-time-reloading-mistake.html

Used a recipe from a couple of manuals. I did trust my Lee disks, but then remeasured and found it to be half a grain off. Short story is I had two rounds that squibbed. I suspect that only the primer fired.

Ah...i see...still though....half of a grain should not cause a squib.

[analog_kidd]

That's my thought too. Not sure if it's my powder, the primer, or did I somehow just not put any powder in the two rounds I fired off. I pulled apart another one that I had made and there was powder in that one, that's where I found it 1/2 grain short.

I don't mind trying again after I verify all the parts are in good condition. I'm real nervous about clogging up the barrel again.

[titan14]

I'm real nervous about clogging up the barrel again.

I dont blame you at all...I'm thinking something HAS to be wrong somewhere....unless you were really, really on the low side...half of a grain won't cause a squib. I'm sorry I just don't have an answer....other than what you already know, go back and check everything again, double check ....but again, I'm sure you've done that.

Maybe someone with more "sperience" will come along shortly....

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I can't recall, Analog-kidd-- Did you mention the brand of primers?

Dunno if that would make a diff, but maybe it would matter. Other folks who know more might be able to contribute.

I've heard that some primers are hotter than others. As far as I can recall, have never used anything except Federal small primers, either normal or magnum pistol primers. Those have a reputation of being pretty easy to set off. Not "hard" primers. I have 1000 winchester primers but haven't used em because the federals seemed to be working OK and didn't see any reason to try something else unless I run out of Federals. OTOH maybe federals are the worst primers you can buy. Dunno.

Supposedly if you don't set the primers deep enough the little anvils in the primer do not contact the case sufficiently and they don't fire off good enough. That would be a possibility in a squib fire perhaps.

Jacketed .38 special or .357 mag bullets should have a diameter about .357".

Lead .38 special or .357 mag bullets seem to have a diameter spread about .357" up thru .359" depending on brand. Maybe it depends how hard the lead is, on how big the manufacturers make them? Dunno.

Someone earlier said he had trouble with .355 9mm bullets in .38 ammo. That the .355 bullet got stuck in the barrel. That seems counter-intuitive, but perhaps the smaller bullet size leaked too much gas around the bullet, and didn't get pushed hard enough to make it out of the barrel?

It probably wouldn't hurt to carefully measure some of your bullets with either a micrometer or a pretty accurate calipers. Even fairly inexpensive micrometers seem pretty accurate to a thousandth, but I have a couple of cheap calipers and I don't trust em to always be absolute accurate to the thousandth. Maybe they will be right and maybe they will be off by a couple of thousandths. One of them is a pretty nice cheap electronic caliper, cost about $40, but it just doesn't always give exactly the same measurement and can't be trusted for tiny accuracy if the accuracy is real important.

I've had one crop of XTP .380 bullets that were one thousandth too small from the factory, and just one thousandth was enough that it was real hard to get a good crimp on the bullets.

So small differences can matter, and even reputable manufacturers can occasionally get it wrong.

[Garufa]

OP, your squibs did not have powder. If the primers were bad nothing would happen. A primer alone has sufficient force to drive a bullet up into the barrel.

[Raoul]

OP, your squibs did not have powder. If the primers were bad nothing would happen. A primer alone has sufficient force to drive a bullet up into the barrel.

I'd agree. I had a 9mm that didn't get powdered once. Squib. I just used a piece of wooden dowel rod and small hammer and knocked it right out.

[gregintenn]

or did I somehow just not put any powder in the two rounds I fired off.

Anything's possible, but here's my guess. If you are concerned about a powder charge that doesn't fill the case, you can buy Dacron and stuff into the case between the powder and bullet to keep the powder against the primer. That being said, I load some very weak 38 SP loads, and I've yet to have a problem with my powder not igniting. I don't think you'll accomplish much with the test you are proposing.

[Trekbike]

OP, you mentioned you loaded "half a dozen or so" rounds. I'm guessing that means 6 - 8ish rounds.

It does sound like the two rounds you fired didn't have powder, but the odds of missing two cases out of 6 - 8ish and then picked those for the first two rounds to shoot sounds like extremely large odds. Step me through the sequence when you charge the cases. Are you using a progressive press?

For me I load on a single stage press and use the 50 round loading trays and work up 100-200 rounds at a time. I do the same operation on all the cases and then move onto the next operation. During the charging operation I load directly into the cases in the tray. I weigh the charges several times until I convinced I'm getting what I want. I then weigh again every 10 rounds for the first 30 rounds. After all the 50 cases have been charged in the tray I visually look at each case compared to the rest to catch any missed cases or double charges. The charging operation is the most dangerous one so I'm extra extra careful on that step.

[I_Like_Pie]

I am pretty positive, please take no offence, that there is something wrong in you loading process that is causing you to leave out powder from some of your loads. The though that the primer is somehow not igniting because it is blowing buy the powder is wrong. The .38 is probably the most reloaded case in the history of reloading and this is never been a problem.

Are you using a progressive press? If so STOP!!! Put it in single stage mode, and develop a loading system/process that works for you. Once you get the steps down pat and it fits your personality then introduce....then progressive press into the mix.

If you get the steps down right there is no, as in 0.000000000000% - zip - zero - no, chance that a load will make it into your gun without any powder.

Again...please don't take offense, but you really need to buddy up with a seasoned reloader for a session or two to see what you are doing wrong. In your gun with a 20,000 psi grenade at the range is not the best place to find out that something isn't right.

[analog_kidd]

I do use a progressive press, adn have been for nearly a year now. Been reloading 9mm without a single issue. I just recently got the .38spl dies, along with a set of .380 dies. On the same day, I loaded all three types of rounds from the same press, and the 9mm and .380 rounds fired perfectly . I did at some point add more powder to my hopper, but I can't remember at what point. Could have been in the middle of the .38spl. I suppose that could be where the problem point was.

I made a total of 5 rounds of .38, fired two, opened one. I think I'll open the other two just to see how much powderis in there. Then, I'll make another small batch of bullets and measure the powder on a scale, just so I know. I'll be very meticulous at every stage so there is no question.

Thanks, everyone, for all your help. It's good to have folks around to bounce ideas off of and get a sanity check once in a while.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Where did you buy your powder?

The reason I ask is there have been problems in the past of people grabbing cans of powder off the shelf and then mixing them. It was last year a guy was given 25 pounds of various powders from Walmart because of this. They caught some kids on video doing it so to be safe they pulled all the powder from the shelf. In the end he piled them up and had a large but short lived bonfire.

From my experience it sounds like a powder problem. Either not enough, wrong type or bad powder. The primer will push a bullet part of the way down the bore.

A slow burning rifle powder will do exactly what you describe as well, I know because I intentionally did it while doing some testing as part of some subsonic load development. I said it in your previous thread as well but a .355" bullet for a 9mm will sometimes not make it out of a 38 barrel. I have had this happen several times early in my loading. I guess the gases pass by the bullet without pushing it. You cannot use the same bullet for 38/357 as you do for 9mm.

If you have a single stage I would use that and weigh each individual charge. After that seat the bullet, making sure to complete each round before moving on to the next. You should be very, very concerned about this problem. Had the problem been on the other end of the spectrum, too much powder, you probably would be having a hard time typing right now.

Dolomite

[lowery100]

If you are wanting a bullet you don't have to worry about sticking in your barrel, get a block of parrifin wax, it comes in blocks about 1/2in thick. I've used it for indoor(garage) practice ammo with just primers. I would prime a case and push the case into the wax using it like a cookie cutter.

[gregintenn]

If you are wanting a bullet you don't have to worry about sticking in your barrel, get a block of parrifin wax, it comes in blocks about 1/2in thick. I've used it for indoor(garage) practice ammo with just primers. I would prime a case and push the case into the wax using it like a cookie cutter.

Cool idea. Do you think one could slug a barrel with parrifin as well? I have a couple of revolvers that I'd like to get a good measure of the bores.